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Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys, finally bought the i1 Display Pro Plus for calibration & measurements.

I have been itching to buy a calibration device for years but never really invested until now.
Time to get started and get my Display measured & profiled with proper tools & software.

A little lost on where to start with this. I installed the software for the X-rite i1Display Pro Plus. [i1Profiler v3.3.0]
But it's really lacklustre from what I could see from what was available in it.
It only really made you adjust your white point & luminance while it measured and did the ICM profile.

All the options in my Display for 20-point calibration, gamma & colorspace options weren't touched in the workflow.
I reckon I need a better software suite to do this Samsung 55" Q8DN justice.
I seek a hardware calibration tool. [i1Profiler seems to be a software orientated only]

I seek to do most adjustments in the TV controls and not rely on a ICM profile to do the work.
I use this 4K 55" Q8DN for PC but it's versatile usage with movies[rec709], games & HDR calibration needed. Can't rely on the ICM profile as it will be wrong when I change between them.
Basically need a rec709 calibration for movies, sRGB profile for PC desktop/games & a HDR game profile/calibration generated.

I also use MADVR for my movies/series watching. So a 3DLUT would be good for that specifically.
TV broadcast & apps calibration I don't really need or use as I have access through it all from the PC side with better quality.
But I will do that also as I have time on my hands to do it all & learn the procedures.

I have used a 20-point calibration someone shared around here for Samsung 2018 QLED but after doing a initial measurement using i1Profiler seems it's way off for my desktop. It was expected, I knew it going to be wrong as there is a visual difference between PC desktop & movie/TV watching where it looks alright, but haven't done a measurement for.

So proper software which I can use to do a real measurements with step by step for 20point calibrations?
Will HCFR work with the i1Display Pro Plus?
Does it allow for the advanced options I need for doing all my target profiles & calibrations?

And the i1Profiler seems to load the ICM profile auto but can't find a option to choose & disable the profile it makes. (I need to disable it, or make several profiles for all different display targets) As it it's now the ICM it generated is OK for Desktop but will be wrong to use in HDR & my movie content.

Was intended for only a test but option to choose profile seems not available in the software?

Thanks to any who might provide initial insight on where to start. I'm a advanced user but I'm new to the calibration stuff. I will learn what is needed to do this properly with the i1Display Pro Plus.

Any tips are good. Though I do not seek to pay for the software to do this. So HCFR seems to be the way.
 

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HCR will work with the i1D3. You will have to un-install the software install from X-Rite. HCFR is designed calibrate video displays (TVs). You will be adjusting the display (TV) not the computer/disc player.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
HCR will work with the i1D3. You will have to un-install the software install from X-Rite. HCFR is designed calibrate video displays (TVs). You will be adjusting the display (TV) not the computer/disc player.
There was nothing indicating that it would not work having both installed as far as I could see.
Well I've been getting myself familiar with the HCFR software but haven't had too much success getting anything useful.

I've noted some odd behaviour with gamma readings that just shoot out way off now and then. Seems there is a 60-100 luminance range dynamic gamma thing depending on image content. It skews the reading when it doesn't stabilize in time, giving horrible results. I've noted this behaviour from the TV before after having used it a lot but it mostly effects dark scenes where highlights get blown out.
HCFR using a dark background with centred reading point seems to trigger it for greyscale measurements. It's problematic as your readings get read erratic depending if it was triggered or not.
Something to change the amount of time each reading is read? Might give it enough time to settle down before the next colour patch.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
After some further exploring of options I could circumvent the dynamic gamma/contrast for whites in the 60-100 range. Basically it's the FALD acting up blowing out highlights in dark scenes.

The solution was to measure the readings in a smaller window & have a white background on the desktop to stop it from fluctuating. (the standard full screen dark background was not useful to get accurate readings consistently)
I will have to see how much the image changes in a dark scene after getting some work done for a HDTV rec709 calibration with BT.1886 target. About 90% done on it, took it's time to learn the software features and what was needed to be done.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
3032758
3032759


Some results on what I've been working on.
Is there anything particularly wrong with my measurements here or what I tried to achieve?

The 20-point RGB balance was a little whacky when trying to correct for gamma targets.

I was doing a rec709 bt.1886 for Video content. Using 0-255 RGB targets to still have proper desktop and doing the video level adjustment for in the media player I use, MPC-HC with MadVR.
 

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View attachment 3032758 View attachment 3032759

Some results on what I've been working on.
Is there anything particularly wrong with my measurements here or what I tried to achieve?

The 20-point RGB balance was a little whacky when trying to correct for gamma targets.

I was doing a rec709 bt.1886 for Video content. Using 0-255 RGB targets to still have proper desktop and doing the video level adjustment for in the media player I use, MPC-HC with MadVR.
The colours seem a bit under-saturated. It’s actually easier to see that with fewer points on the sweep, as with 10 points they may fall on the adjacent point without being that obvious.
Also, for gamma calibration it’s best to turn on w/gamma (right-click on the RGB graph).
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The colours seem a bit under-saturated. It’s actually easier to see that with fewer points on the sweep, as with 10 points they may fall on the adjacent point without being that obvious.
Also, for gamma calibration it’s best to turn on w/gamma (right-click on the RGB graph).
For saturation what setting would I need to adjust?

Would the "Color" setting in the TV options work to adjust it? I never touched it yet as I forgot about it being there.
In general the saturation points stayed the same even if I adjusted the colour space & primary colours to target, I was expecting the other points to expand with the primaries but they didn't so I was a little lost on that, thinking it wasn't capable to do it.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
You would use the TV’s CMS controls to adjust the saturation of each colour. The Color setting is global and usually only changes the colour intensity (luminance), not saturation.
Seems that the option to access saturation isn't available in the normal controls. I tried using the Color & Tint(R/G) settings to get them to target but if I add too much Color the primary colours just became to intense and could not be adjusted to target at all.

I only have the simplified remote to my Samsung Q8DN and can't access the service menu for additional options if there would be a saturation option in there.

Normal Color is 25... I had to increase it to 30 to reach most saturation points accurately. But when White was target 120cd/m2 the primaries & secondary colours where in the 130-140+ range and could not be lowered down resulting in large errors.
Ended being troublesome to try and adjust using Color setting. I got somewhat there with 27 Color & G4-G5 Tint. But it's not optimal at all.

Seems the TV is intended for 16--235 range calibration and doesn't do proper 0-255 range easily if wanted to be used with PC, not with rec709 colourspace in mind.
It does Native DCI-P3 quite easy though.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
I've reached about the result that is acceptable, for now at least. I will be reading up more before I try again. Looks good even if not all points are perfect.

I notice too much variance from each try I measure to another. Each day result in quite different RGB values it wants for low Delta E. Not too consistent the next day after I've reached "done" and return later to do a new measurement.

I used a white field background for my measurements to limit the FALD acting up. Too much variance in reading with a black/gray background to get consistent results.
This results in dark images to be "inaccurate" but it seems mostly means the gamma is effected and also smaller highlights might be brighter than target.
With a bright image the image should be accurate.

My Samsung 55" Q8DN with 1300.4 firmware version wanted these settings for a rec709 bt.1886 (default) 120cd/m2 calibration for PC source sending RGB 4:4:4 signal. [AMD RX VEGA 64]
0-255 targets
TV -> [Game Console] selected in Movie Mode (this will result in a 4:2:2 chroma after TV processing)
HDMI black: Normal
Backlight: 21
Brightness: 0
Contrast: 45
Sharpness: 0
Color: 27
Tint (G/R): G5
Digital Clean View: off
Auto Motion Plus: Personal
Local Dimming: Low
Contrast Enhancement: off
HDR+: OFF
Color Temperature: Warm2
Gamma: BT.1886: 1

White point 20-point: [R:G:B]
5% [25:50:20]
10% [15:50:30]
15% [12:33:41]
20% [-1:21:22]
25% [-1:14:16]
30% [-5:12:17]
35% [-6:5:12]
40% [-6:2:7]
45% [-5:-3:3]
50% [-6:-4:-1]
55% [-7:-6:-5]
60% [-8:-6:-7]
65% [-3:-3:-8]
70% [-4:-5:-9]
75% [-4:-3:-10]
80% [-7:-3:-12]
85% [-10:-3:-12]
90% [-3:0:-11]
95% [0:0:-14]
100% [2:-3:-20]

Color Space settings: Custom [R:G:B]
Red: [16:11:0]
Green: [25:55:3]
Blue: [0:9:46]
Yellow: [92:41:0]
Cyan: [5:60:10]
Magenta: [0:4:100]
(Delta E ~2, not enough blue to correct)


The Color & Tint settings with the Color space targets should need more work but the white point 20-point is quite alright now, only need adjustment if I change the colourspace to correct it a little.
5% gamma/white point can't reach target luminance. It's either 0.200 or 0.300 depending on gamma & brightness settings, should be around 0.248 but best I could do was reach ~0.217 with my values. A little dimmer than target. 10% and above are on target in delta E 0.1 average and single couple 0.2-0.3 points when doing the measurements for adjustments.
Primary colours are below Delta E 1 and Magenta being a outlier mostly because of the Color & G5 Tint I used to meet saturation & Color Checker targets.
But to be honest I'm still not happy with the saturation to be had, was lacking control of this option in TV controls.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
After playing around with the HCFR software and my Samsung 55" Q8DN QLED I came to conclude my prior calibration was highly inaccurate.

QLED is not White LED or anything similar. Also The FALD & "Dynamic tone-mapping/gamma ramp" depending on content screws you over way too hard. Depending on the pattern & Field-size you get different measurements.
You have to decide where you want to target your calibration for "tone map/gamma ramp" by altering your pattern. YOU CAN'T USE 5-10% WINDOW SIZE period! These Samsung TV's push above 25% IRE in a utter weird sense depending on window size. The smaller window the larger deviation. Other content on-screen will alter your measurement hugely.
Basically it pushes gamma lower by a offset but the RGB levels are different meaning it pushes blue and lowers red a lot.

Here is a sample on 50% field pattern. It gets worse in 5-10% windows and normalizes toward 100% field pattern. Depending on window size, content gets skewed either direction for "spread".
5-10% window size for measurement give way to inaccurate results! Your Greyscale will try to correct the huge diviation in Red/Blue skrewing it over all over the place for normal usage other than the test-pattern.
3036001


And I also concluded I used the wrong "preset".
I should have used something like RG-Phosphor for backlight setting prior to anything.
White LED is NOT correct for QLED.

Set your measurements for atleast 1.0sec. The backlight/ramping will not settle down in less time for accurate reading.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
55" Q8DN 1300.4 firmware [AMD graphics]

[Game Console]->[Game Mode]->[RGB4:4:4]->[0-255]
ALL settings (100nits target):
Backlight: 20
Brightness: 0
Contrast: 38
Sharpness: 0
Color: 29
Tint(G/R): R2
Local Dimming: Low
Contrast Enhancement: Off
Colortemp: Warm2
Whitepoint 2-point: Gain[29,25,17], Offset[-14,-9,-4]
Gamma: 0
Colorspace: Custom
The following is for rec709 targets.
Red [0,5,5]
Green [33,57,12]
Blue [0,13,35]
Yellow [25,56,0]
Cyan [25,38,76]
Magenta [0,7,0]
HDMI Black: Normal

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Game Mode isn't really easy to correct with regard to gamma with only 2-point available.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I didn't use the test patterns but my desktop in this latest round. It's my use case 90% of the time and it was never right after a calibration round if using a full screen window test pattern.
So I resorted to have a small window to measure from having my usual stuff around. Finally it seems to look correct with no pink/blue tint or anything else feeling really wrong with the colours.
Did only a 2-point and corrected 100% white and will be testing it out for a while before I do the full 20-point if I like this result.

[Game Console]->[Movie]->[RGB4:4:4]->[0-255]
ALL settings (100nits target):
Backlight: 18
Brightness: 0
Contrast: 43
Sharpness: 0
Color: 29
Tint(G/R): 0
Local Dimming: Low
Contrast Enhancement: Off
Colortemp: Warm2
Whitepoint 2-point: Gain[-32,-31,-32], Offset[-6,1,6]
Whitepoint 20-point: 100% white [1,-2,-9]
Gamma: 0
Colorspace: Custom
The following is for rec709 targets.
Red [0,4,4]
Green [32,53,11]
Blue [0,16,24]
Yellow [44,50,0]
Cyan [23,41,59]
Magenta [0,6,15]
HDMI Black: Normal

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