[Desert Pilot]

Denon and Oppo both are releasing new universal players for BD and SACD/DVD-A. Up to this point I was thinking that separates were the best way to go (and the only way since BD players mostly did not include SACD). Now we have a choice. So, the question comes up as to whether a unversal player is the better choice?


Since I have invested a lot of $$$ in my home theater system (a lot to me anyway), I am looking for the best playback transport. Can a universal player do everything well or are there compromises? Would a separate SACD player still be the better choice?


Marcus

 

[arnyk]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Pilot /forum/post/15454966


Denon and Oppo both are releasing new universal players for BD and SACD/DVD-A. Up to this point I was thinking that separates were the best way to go (and the only way since BD players mostly did not include SACD). Now we have a choice. So, the question comes up as to whether a unversal player is the better choice?


Since I have invested a lot of $$$ in my home theater system (a lot to me anyway), I am looking for the best playback transport. Can a universal player do everything well or are there compromises? Would a separate SACD player still be the better choice?


Marcus

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. When there are delivered, reviewed products in the real world, we can sensibly continue this discussion.


As far as universal players go, there's no reason why a universal player can't match the audible and visual performance of separates.



I'm a bit skeptical of Oppo, based on how poorly one of their DVD players tested out by Stereophile. But, the BD universal is a new chance for them to clean up their act.

 

[RWetmore]

Actually, no universal player ever sounds as good as one dedicated to one or a few formats. Dedicated players are build around one format and usually have more nuances.

 

[arnyk]



Quote:
Originally Posted by RWetmore /forum/post/15462732


Actually, no universal player ever sounds as good as one dedicated to one or a few formats. Dedicated players are build around one format and usually have more nuances.

I'm sure the above individual has any number of alleged listening tests from different salons, friend's houses, and audio shows; all non-level-matched or time-synched, to back himself up with.


The idea that a player has to be built around one format is easy to deconstruct. Take for example DVD players. Other than SACD, the physical disc format of all DVDs is exactly the same. The various flavors of DVD (DVD-ROM, Dolby Digital, DTS, DVD-A) differ only in the interpretation of their data, which takes place entirely in the digital domain where its just a matter of programming, data storage, and processing power. Once the data has been decoded and interpreted, the identical same DACs can be used to convert the data to audio signals.


Much of the circuitry and programming of modern players is obtained from third parties, much is burned or lithographed onto chips that can be licensed and purchased by anybody with the need and willingness to pay.


Bottom line is that you have to judge each product on its individual merits, and not some preconceived notions about what is necessarily going to sound best or even different.

 

[geekhd]



Quote:
Originally Posted by RWetmore /forum/post/15462732


Actually, no universal player ever sounds as good as one dedicated to one or a few formats. Dedicated players are build around one format and usually have more nuances.

RWetmore, what's your background in electronics technology? I'm just curious where you are coming from.

 

[RWetmore]



Quote:
Originally Posted by geekhd /forum/post/15463501


RWetmore, what's your background in electronics technology? I'm just curious where you are coming from.

I was just kidding. I wanted to see how fast Arnold would come in with his standard mantra. Just as I suspected it didn't take very long. I find it amusing how obsessed you guys are with poo pooing other peoples' listening claims.


I know of no reason why a combo player couldn't sound every bit as good as one dedicated to a single format.

 

[par4]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Pilot /forum/post/15454966


Denon and Oppo both are releasing new universal players for BD and SACD/DVD-A. Up to this point I was thinking that separates were the best way to go (and the only way since BD players mostly did not include SACD). Now we have a choice. So, the question comes up as to whether a unversal player is the better choice?


Since I have invested a lot of $$$ in my home theater system (a lot to me anyway), I am looking for the best playback transport. Can a universal player do everything well or are there compromises? Would a separate SACD player still be the better choice?


Marcus

Marcus, if you're just looking for a transport what are you streaming your digital bits to; a DAC, AVR or processor pre-amp? If so, are you happy with them? Are you currently using the analog outs of your present source?

 

[geekhd]



Quote:
Originally Posted by RWetmore /forum/post/15468000


I was just kidding. I wanted to see how fast Arnold would come in with his standard mantra. Just as I suspected it didn't take very long. I find it amusing how obsessed you guys are with poo pooing other peoples' listening claims.


I know of no reason why a combo player couldn't sound every bit as good as one dedicated to a single format.

Mom never told you the story about a kid who cried out wolf for amusement? That's too bad.

 

[RWetmore]



Quote:
Originally Posted by geekhd /forum/post/15468455


Mom never told you the story about a kid who cried out wolf for amusement?

She probably did, but since I never confirmed the story I heard with a level matched ABX test, I had to dismiss it.

 

[Denophile]

the analog performance of that oppo was pretty much dismissed as sub par but it did make a good transport--the new oppo supposedly has a better analog section but no one knows for sure. if youre running hdmi and letting the pre pro or receiver do the decoding then there isn;'t much reason to go with the denon--what yore paying for is build quality, dac's and the hopefully exceptional analog section--if youre only sending digital bits you are bypassing all that....

 

[Desert Pilot]

Hi. Well, I recently purchased the Sony S550 and using analog out (sounds absolutely superb by the way) until I get a new receiver in which case I will switch to HDMI.


For an SACD player I am using a Denon 2910 and analog out. I am fairly pleased with this unit for several years now. But, have the "bug" to upgrade and was likely to choose the Pioneer DV58AV which was well reviewed by Kal and keep using the analog out.


Ya know, if I could use analog out on both units I would be fine with using the player DACS. But, damn! No receiver allows multiple analog inputs.


anyway, that's my story.


marcus

Quote:
Originally Posted by par4 /forum/post/15468207


Marcus, if you're just looking for a transport what are you streaming your digital bits to; a DAC, AVR or processor pre-amp? If so, are you happy with them? Are you currently using the analog outs of your present source?

 

[par4]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Pilot /forum/post/15470631


Hi. Well, I recently purchased the Sony S550 and using analog out (sounds absolutely superb by the way) until I get a new receiver in which case I will switch to HDMI.


For an SACD player I am using a Denon 2910 and analog out. I am fairly pleased with this unit for several years now. But, have the "bug" to upgrade and was likely to choose the Pioneer DV58AV which was well reviewed by Kal and keep using the analog out.


Ya know, if I could use analog out on both units I would be fine with using the player DACS. But, damn! No receiver allows multiple analog inputs.


anyway, that's my story.


marcus

Not sure if I follow. So you are currently using the analog outs on both the Sony S550 and Denon 2910, and your current receiver does not accept HDMI?

 

[Leo the 3rd]

I'm in a similar situation. I've got an old Denon DVD-2200 (using 5.1 analog out) that I'm using to playback DVD-Audio/SACD discs. My pre-amp has HDMI but doesn't decode DSD. Is it worth retiring a working unit and upgrading to a newer player? Or just stay where I'm at.

 

[par4]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo the 3rd /forum/post/15495466


I'm in a similar situation. I've got an old Denon DVD-2200 (using 5.1 analog out) that I'm using to playback DVD-Audio/SACD discs. My pre-amp has HDMI but doesn't decode DSD. Is it worth retiring a working unit and upgrading to a newer player? Or just stay where I'm at.

Leo, the Denon 2200 has excellent performance for Redbook CD and SACD via the analog outs. Now, when it becomes time to pass the 2200 on to Leo the 4th, the longevity of the unit certainly might fall under question!

 

[Leo the 3rd]



Quote:
Originally Posted by par4 /forum/post/15497077


Leo, the Denon 2200 has excellent performance for Redbook CD and SACD via the analog outs. Now, when it becomes time to pass the 2200 on to Leo the 4th, the longevity of the unit certainly might fall under question!

Yeah, that's true. Don't know if he'll want the 2200 or the Rega Planet 2K.

For now I'll hold on to the 2200 until it decides to give up the ghost. I've got a pretty good collection of SACD that I don't want to go to waste.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Pilot /forum/post/15454966


Denon and Oppo both are releasing new universal players for BD and SACD/DVD-A. Up to this point I was thinking that separates were the best way to go (and the only way since BD players mostly did not include SACD). Now we have a choice. So, the question comes up as to whether a unversal player is the better choice?


Since I have invested a lot of $$$ in my home theater system (a lot to me anyway), I am looking for the best playback transport. Can a universal player do everything well or are there compromises? Would a separate SACD player still be the better choice?

This is a great question, because I'm in the same spot. I'm considering the Sony BDP-S5000ES for Blu-ray and the Sony SCD-XA5400ES for CD/SACD, both fine pieces. But that option is relatively expensive (expensive to me) and they take up a lot of cabinet space.


Then there's the Denon DVD-A1UDCI, a $4,200 beast with some features (such as balanced outputs) that I really don't need or want. The Oppo, on the other hand, has that flimsy low-end look that I don't care for, but I suspect it'll be a good performer and a great value. It's just not for me.


Before I drop $3,500 on the two Sonys, I'm waiting to see how much of the DVD-A1UDCI's features trickle down to the more-mainstream Denon line. A replacement for the DVD-3800BDCI is inevitable (they can't keep selling a Profile 1.1 player at two grand), so it'll be interesting to see what the "DVD-3810" will offer. If it includes SACD, I might be in; if it's just a nice Profile 2.0 Blu-ray/DVD/CD player, I'll probably go for the dedicated Sony players.

 

[Kal Rubinson]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Brownstone /forum/post/15593752


Before I drop $3,500 on the two Sonys, I'm waiting to see how much of the DVD-A1UDCI's features trickle down to the more-mainstream Denon line. A replacement for the DVD-3800BDCI is inevitable (they can't keep selling a Profile 1.1 player at two grand), so it'll be interesting to see what the "DVD-3810" will offer. If it includes SACD, I might be in; if it's just a nice Profile 2.0 Blu-ray/DVD/CD player, I'll probably go for the dedicated Sony players.

A little birdie told me that such a less expensive but truly universal player will be coming one of these days. No dates offered.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson /forum/post/15597922


A little birdie told me that such a less expensive but truly universal player will be coming one of these days. No dates offered.

Something tells me we're thinking about more or less the same thing. As you know, in economic times like these, "wait and see" isn't such a bad strategy.

Anyway, one might also surmise that Denon/Marantz would realize some economies of scale (and improve margins) by sharing some technology across the Blu-ray line.

 

[wolfganglui]



Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk /forum/post/15462270


I'm a bit skeptical of Oppo, based on how poorly one of their DVD players tested out by Stereophile. But, the BD universal is a new chance for them to clean up their act.

Arnyk,

I wonder if this the article or measurement you are thinking about.

http://www.stereophile.com/hirezplay...po/index5.html


Would you like to explain what is the problem that you could see? I don't have this but the 971 version. Most of the time I use it as a transport while listening to CDs with the AV processor built in Dac. It seemed to sound better that way to me.


Just wish to understand a bit about all this stuff and hopefully a bit wiser when looking for the next player.

 

[Crisnee]

Wolfganglui, I think it's too complicated to be explained here (if you're talking about the technical measurements), not to mention that all "negative," measurements do not show up when it comes to listening. If you're truly interested in measurements you'll have to make quite a study of them to understand them.


As to the sound of the player: I think he was just saying that through it's analog outputs it was reasonably good just not top of the line, but that if played through it's digital outputs (and presumably HDMI) into a good dac it produced outstanding sound, particularly for it's price.


Chris