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New Zenith HDTV PVR

4K views 71 replies 26 participants last post by  David McRoy 
#1 ·
#2 ·
The world's last, it should say.


I (apparently) have all the capabilities they are offering and more, with

a Hipix and a 100 gig drive. This is a braindead product without at

least a satellite decoder.
 
#3 ·
I think you may want to re-read that article. This beastie can play back a recorded show while recording another one, which is something you can't do with the HiPix. I would expect that it can also do the usual "trick play" stuff (FF/RW/pause live TV) that the HiPix also doesn't do.


Don't get me wrong: I wouldn't buy one with that teeny disk drive, but having it all in a little box with an on-TV GUI is a much more palatable solution for 99.999995% of people, who don't want a Windows PC in their living room just to record a few TV shows.
 
#4 ·
I don't care if it can make coffee. OTA recording is a solved problem. What

I need is to reschedule HBO and Showtime. First solution I find is the one

I buy.
 
#5 ·
Well this is progress I guess, but whatever marketing genius thought up the feature set should be fired. I want a HD PVR so bad I can't stand it, but I will not buy this. What I want is the equivalent of a Direct TIVO with HD, 240 gbytes (and expansion capability).



Mike
 
#7 ·
Yeah, Scott and I will wait for 169 and MOXIE. We will wait for Blu-Ray HD-DVD. We will wait for the May 1st federal mandate to pass so that every commercial station is broadcasting digitally.


Ever notice that waiting doesn't always result in good things coming? I am holding my breath for all these things because blue really is my color.


Perhaps we can get somebody to build an 8VSB-QAM transcoder type of converter that will allow our AccessDTV/Hi-Pix/whatever HD cards to record sat? I will wait for that.


Mike
 
#9 ·
Well remember too that one of the purposes of this box might be to try and just get OTA digital tuners in more peoples hands. What are we up to after 3 years.. 300K? thats absurd. Not to say the masses (that even care about digital channels to begin) arent going to just wait for cable tv anyway but if the cost of this box can be low enough coupled with at least *some* timeshifting ability, they might sell a few. This notion of having to pay 500.00 give or take 50.00 just to even tune the channels to begin with, much less any timeshifting, has to stop.


No, those of us that already have the tuners might not be very interested in such a limited box in storage and function, but maybe at least some folks that havent even jumped on board at all yet would be. Not to say theres no good logic behind a hard drive thats not at least twice as big if you're going to bother at all.
 
#11 ·
In defense of Zenith, I would be interested in a combined terrestrial HD tuner/hard disk recorder, and don't really care about the satellite capability. I do think that the 40 GB hard drive is a weakness that needs to be corrected -- at least 60 GB (close to 7 hour recording) or 80 GB (9 hour recording) would be better. Better yet would be if it has a firewire input/output to allow interfacing with other HD products in the future -- that might allow satellite recording down the road, for those who need it.


I think that the key is price -- if they can offer a unit with a hard drive for not much more than tuners are currently selling for (say, $500 to $700), then I think it will move. If it is $1500 to record 4 1/2 hours of HDTV, then I don't think it would be a success.
 
#12 ·
Also, if it's as easy to add capacity on your own as a Tivo, then educated people that read forums won't care about the factory capacity. If you could add external storage even Joe Sixpack would do it if he cared.

Personally, I bought the cheapest smallest reburbished Tivo I could find because I knew that there was very little difference between the different units and I was going to immediately upgrade the disc.

I think the specs of the Zenith box are fine. I would buy it sight unseen if it had Tivo software. Otherwise, I would have to try out the UI and features. I'm debating whether I want to buy a MyHD card now and put together my own, or wait out the year until a HD PVR is actually available. Regardless, I'm going to buy something for receiving and timeshifting HD.


- Mike
 
#13 ·
Quote:
In addition, it has repeated replay function and video clipping function that enables people to edit and record only the parts that they want to keep.
I thought the above quote from the press release was interesting. I'd really like to see video clipping become a common feature on PVR's.
 
#14 ·
I am absolutely desperate to be able to timeshift HD programming which I get via cable. Here in Houston we get a number of digital cable stations as well as HD stations and inevitably there is conflict on HD programs. I've lost interest in watching anything but HD programming. I refuse to have anything to do with a HTPC running any program based on Windows - it's bad enough that my home network runs on the **** program.


So I find this interesting. If the Zenith truly offers time shifting, I'd buy it in a minute. I've zero interest in archiving programs, but a larger disk space would be preferable so we could go out of town . I almost don't even care what the darned thing costs as long as it replicates my gorgeous TWC picture.

Leslie
 
#16 ·
What a joke.


"But the new set-top box by LGE is first in the world that can record and play back HD grade digital signals."


This is a nice lie. 169time has been doing this for a year now. Its like Mark saying HDNet is the first station to do full time HD. Unity motion was.


And just a 40 gig drive for HD. Again, what a joke. Just wait until you see the size of drive the 169time PVR has. Will make Zenith look like a horse and buggy.


I love the competition from the big boys. Just makes us want to work harder!!!!


Dave
 
#18 ·
Nope, if I were I couldnt be posting here. I am doing a lot of work with them just like a lot of others are. None of us are getting paid or are legally a part of the compnny. (What ever that means to you).

I have worked everyday on my part of the solution for over a solid month now. I sure am learning a lot which is the fun part.


The whole fun about all of this is the people who say something cant be done, are so negative, make conclusions withour real facts, etc. No matter what 169time does, some folks just cant stand a small company seems to be able to deliver more than their favorite company. Again, thats fine with me. I have yet to talk to a person who has gotten the dtc100 that hasnt been happy. And a number of them have been very negative in the past if you go back and review posts. Its not cheap but what is in this hobby.

Without any real volume, it makes them very expensive since they are basically built one at a time by hand.


When something better than the dtc100 comes out, then I will probably buy it. But so far, I have seen nothing being talked about that will have more features than the dtc100 has, will have, or could have. Price is the last thing I worry about for me in this price range. Whether its 700 or 1500, doesnt matter, especially when the more expensive product has more features. Now if they both do exactly the same thing, thats a different story. So what does the Zenith do that the dtc100 cant?

To start with, you can get the dtc100. Do you have a Zenith working in your house yet? If not, smoke and mirrors technically at the moment.


dave


dave
 
#19 ·
h2ofun wrote:

Scott, just you wait, 169 may have a solution for

you down the road.


h2ofun wrote:

And just a 40 gig drive for HD.

Again, what a joke. Just wait until you see

the size of drive the 169time PVR has.

Will make Zenith look like a horse and buggy.


h2ofun wrote:

I love the competition from the big boys.

Just makes us want to work harder!!!!



169time has been working on an integrated HDTV PVR

Set Top Box ?!?! For the past year or so, 169time

has been making postings to AVSforum (either directly

or vicariously through h2ofun/Dave) explaining that

they are so busy working on getting the DirecTV

recording solution done that they couldn't respond

to inquiries. In fact it seemed like the whole 169time

group disappeared off the face of the earth for a few

months then resurfaced. Again (recounting ancient

history at this point) there were quite a few people

upset that the "solution" had been promised then the

"ship" date slipped, slipped, slipped again and again.

Now h2ofun/Dave claims to have "the solution" working

and we are finally on the verge of delivery...

( a few "hoo-rays" are heard from the audience )

but whats with the side track on the HD PVR STB?!


It seems 169time has developped a pattern of getting

sidetracked and then expecting customers (and potential

customers) to understand the delays. The DTC-100

DirecTV recording solution was basically the first/most

interesting concept that 169time announced (over a year

ago), and in the interim they decided to do the

Unity Motion device, announced work on a Dish 6000

interface (which never materialized) and now this HD-PVR-STB.
 
#20 ·
I never said 169 had a working pvr. Find the quote. Zenith doesnt either unless you have one at home working.


169 is not side tracked on anything. One does need to have a road map for the future. It has not changed in many many many months. If you dont want to hear what other things we want to get in the future. Great.

I have been and will continue to provide the people who care as much info about whats going on as possible.


Sat has been and still is there number one goal. That doesnt mean others cant be working on other future stuff. :eek:)



dave
 
#21 ·
Well, Dave - I still believe that 169time could have

delivered working DTC-100 sat recording many months

ago if they had their act together better. You claim

that they don't get side tracked, but I still think

that the Dish 6000, Unity Motion & other projects

(as well as this talk of an HD PVR STB) must have

slowed down the DTC-100 sat recording development

to some degree. As far as I know Richard is the only

guy really working on this stuff so it probably

doesn't take much to spread him too thinly.


My biggest issue is that 169time had repeatedly made

claims that certain features would be ready by certain

dates that came and went. After some sort of re-org

they have tried harder not to make unrealistic promises

and now seem to release news through a "middleman" as

to avoid direct flack, but I still think they are

generating more "hype" than they deserve right now.


When you start flaming Zenith for building an

inferior product I just sigh because I trust their

ability to deliver a working product on schedule more

than 169time based on recent track records.


I appreciate that AVSforum is a good place to discuss

products which are under development and not read to ship,

but the news we get on AVSforum from 169time tends to

have too much hype and marketing spin mixed in with the

real techincal discussions.


Historically, 169time's marketing practices

(such as pre-order by date XYZ to get a discount,

order product ABC if you want to be

first in line for product DEF,

loan us your equipment indefinately while we

process your order, etc, etc.)

have not been well received. It seems a number of

people were caught off guard that there will probably

be an extra fee to get the sat recording going with

the DTC-100 product. The earlier marketing material

did seem to suggest that buying an OTA only module

and a warantee would guarantee free sat capability once

it was ready.


I keep trying to think of the phrase "better late than

never", but there is probably some imporance in trying

to be more timely and clear to build a good reputation with

your customers.


Overall my point is that I would appreciate it if you

(Dave) could try to reserve the glowing praise and

excitement just for actual ready shipping products -

not ideas in the lab or beta units that only you have.
 
#22 ·
PVR,

No, 169time has not yet started working on a PVR. Others have been working independently on the software 169time may use to eventually deliver a PVR. I am a Linux 1394 developer who has been helping 169time deliver a DirecTV-to-DVHS solution. I can definitely reassure you that 169time has been very focused on this satellite solution and nothing else. Myself and another developer have been working on the disk I/O and a next-generation Linux mpeg1394 driver. I work on it because I don't have a D-VHS deck and I want to record from my HDVR to HDD. My colleague, who is not directly helping 169time, wants it so he can output his 3D animations to D-VHS in HD. While I have discussed various ideas with Richard, who works for 169time, he has steadfastly remained focused on his current deliverable despite my best efforts ;-). Sometimes, I send Richard and Dave status updates on our other, independent efforts, and Dave (and/or 169time) extrapolates from there.
 
#23 ·
Thanks for the info, ddennedy... Having someone other

than Dave or Richard report in helps to clear that air a bit.


Again, h2ofun wrote:

>> Again, what a joke. Just wait until you see

>> the size of drive the 169time PVR has.

>> Will make Zenith look like a horse and buggy.


If the "169time HD PVR" is nothing more than the idea

that the DTC-100 interface card ~may~ someday plug

into something that others are working on, I think

Dave had no business making the above statement.
 
#24 ·
Yes, Dave is very enthsiastic, but please don't knock him too hard; he is reflecting very exciting recent achievements. This is a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't. Many people like to hear about potential future products to better understand the potential future value and scope of a product line.

Both He and I put many hours into helping 169time without direct monetary compensation. I believe both of us are driven by our personal interest in the technology. In addition, I am simply trying to help 169time continue to provide solutions to the market.
 
#25 ·
PVR, You have no idea what you are talking about. As I have always said, the effort of 169 has involved many folks all working together.

One of these efforts that I am aware of is in my working with Dan that we want a PVR. Its too bad you are always so negative. Think what you want.

The facts speak for themselves. All you have ever done is become the new

wirehead rick. For you its either a HIpix or nothing. As Dan, the hours I have spent helping Richard with this product for no money is stupid.

And the number of negative post like yours I have had to put with over the last year is more than any normal person would put up with. I hang in here to prove all the negative folks about 169time had no idea what they are talking about.


Dan, guess the cat is out of the bag. Lets prove them wrong. A 40 gig drive is nothing. I cant wait to get by 500 gig of space filled up with HD.


169time leaving the HiPix in the dust and pulling further ahead.


dave
 
#26 ·
More power to you guys - go ahead leave everyone in the

dust.


I don't like being negative - I just feel compelled

to let the new viewers know a bit about the 169time

track record and to be prepared to have a lot of

patience if they are going to send money and/or

equipment over to 169time. Maybe the "new" 169time

is vastly improved and things are different now...?


Many other interesting products have been developped

with some activity going on through AVSforum but

those topics mostly have a more low-key approach to

talking about what is being done.


=====================

h2ofun wrote:

>> A 40 gig drive is nothing.

>> I cant wait to get by 500 gig of space filled up with HD.


(for HD - agreed)


When 169time has a working, shipping,

500GB HD PVR there will be much rejoicing.

(although I already have 5,000GB of hard disks

filled with HD programs...)


h2ofun wrote:

>> The facts speak for themselves.


I'm fine with that.


Please try to post facts rather than speculation,

rumors or hype.
 
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