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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
New DTV/UTV installation, first time ever, trying to spot the satellite.

I get no signals either tuner, 0, at 132.6 deg, 40.8 elevation.


There are some tall redwoods over on the next block; any suggestions how to boresight this angulated dish contraption so I can tell if those trees are blocking?
 

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Try playing with the elevation a little bit. Where I live it's off by about 2 degrees from what the receiver says. I really doubt that a redwood on the next block will be blocking your signal. That 40 degree elevation is 50 degrees from horizontal, so they would have to be REAL tall.
 

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I don't know if this is your problem, but it happened to me when I first put up my dish. I made the horizontal alignment with a compass, but overlooked adjusting for magnetic deviation in my area. Once I was aligned to true north, the elevation adjustment was much easier. That took a couple of hours of frustration.


Also remember that the angle of incidence equals the angle of reflection -- the signal path is "more up" (due to the LNB being "more down" than centered on the dish). Sighting where it looks like the dish is pointing is not necessarily the path that the signal is taking.


Hope this helps.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Phatmex
That 40 degree elevation is 50 degrees from horizontal, so they would have to be REAL tall.
It's actually it is slightly more than that the feed is offeset on directv dishs... 10 - 20 degrees...
 

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My experience has been that if you get the elevation set correctly, you can find the satellite without much trouble by turning the dish slowly.
 

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I had this happen, it turned out that I forgot to hook the UTV to the coax after i ran it through the attic/wall. boy, did i feel smart.


-dave
 

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I've aimed dishes several times, and I always have regarded the elev/deg as rough guides. once I get it "close", I watch the signal meter while making small sweeping motions back and forth, up and down, in sweeping motions, only varying about an inch or so each way. Once you "hit", it's just a matter of fine-tuning it.


However, your original question was basically "how do I see the path of the signal" -- I think that was pretty well answered, but it'd be hard to believe that a tree that far away could block the signal.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by wrb



It's actually it is slightly more than that the feed is offeset on directv dishs... 10 - 20 degrees...
No, that 40.8 is the angle from where he is to the satellite, with vertical being 0 and horizontal being 90. For example, my dish sits at aprox. a 70 degree angle (20 degrees from horizontal) and the LNB is approx. at horizontal from the center of the dish. My calculated angle is 49 degrees, so the offset is about 20 degrees, like you say.


The point I'm trying to make, which you missed, is that whatever calculated angle you have is the actual angle to the satellite and can be used to predict if you will receive a signal over or under something. The offset is handled by the dish in that it shows you where to adjust it with the numbers provided. The dish itself doesn't sit at that angle, but that is the actual angle of the signal.


My dish is mounted about 6 feet off the ground with a 2 story house aprox. 20 feet away. With such a steep angle I was able to just stick it between where the roofline comes together in an inside corner. My friends said it wouldn't work there, but I knew it would because I had a good physics professor in college. It did.
 

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Here's a tip to make the process of "trial and error" a little easier. We have children so I took the baby monitor and hooked it up near the UTV and brought the baby monitor receiver with me to the roof. This way I was able to hear the tones change as I moved the dish around.


-NJJ
 

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The last time I aimed my dish (last week), I actually took a little 3" TV and an old receiver (unsubscribed) out to the dish. It seems like a hastle, but I got the best readings I've ever had (about 94%; usually I get about 86% or so).
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks, fellow sat-yrs -- btw Phatmex, RCA's install kit says 0 elevation is looking at horizon, 90 deg is straight overhead. And I appreciate your pointing out the angles between dish, arm, and LNB mean only the calibrated marks can be your guide. In fact...


John Barton says, "Also remember that the angle of incidence equals the angle of reflection -- the signal path is "more up" (due to the LNB being "more down" than centered on the dish). Sighting where it looks like the dish is pointing is not necessarily the path that the signal is taking."


Well. Those redwoods are really tall. And that is why...


I made up my Boresight rig as follows:

Took a 2 foot cardboard tube [lucky I had a 2x2" square one] and stapled one end to a piece of hoirizontal scrap [plywood was handy] after scribing the Azimuth at the recommended angle from an edge I used as a reference [to the edge of my flat garage roof in my own case], coulda been the angle from your N-S or your E-W edge, as determined by your magnetic compass or other neighborhood orientation. Next I propped up my tube to desired elevation [using small cardboard box which I stapled and taped into place].

I employed a schoolboy's plastic semi-circular 180 degree compass to set my Azimuth and Elevation. Using a small mirror I gazed up the tube to see clear sky. My Boresight "Artillery"!


By jockeying this rig this way and that, I could be assured how much clearance I'd have -- from the leaves and the eaves [on my house].


You get your rough angles at
http://www.orbitsat.com/Support/Point.htm plus some good "pointers" [hah!] or drill down at http://www.directv.com to enter your zip code.

When I fould my bird, it was at least 10 degrees away from DTV 110. The beam angle I subtend seems pretty darn narrow; I squeezed up&down, side to side to get the best I could, but it was only about 2 ticks on the mast.


Magnetic North differs from True North by magnetic "Variation" [16 degrees in San Jose]. See your place on map at
http://www.geo-orbit.org/sizepgs/magmapsp.html

=================================================


New Problem - WHY could this happen to me?


1] My new UTV Sony SAT W-60 locks both tuners to DirecTV at 90s% Tuner 1 and 80s% Tuner 2 strength...but only on odd-numbered transponders. Even-numbered transponders only locked Tuner 1. Tuner 2 had 0% on even-number transponders.


2] System Test says Tuner 1 is OK. Tuner 2 Fails.


To run this down, I first swapped cables at the dual LNB -- same result so both elements of the LNB should be ok. That should prove out each cable too, right?


Next I swap cables at the Tuner inputs. Now signal tests are also swapped, and System Test says Tuner 1 Fails. Tuner 2 is OK. So neither tuner is broken as far as detecting signal, right? btw, I did not change channels during all this.

Is there something amiss in the polarization voltage commands getting issued from the tuner, thru the cable, to the LNB that could explain it?


How should I check voltages?


When/how are the LNBs commanded to flip polarization?


BTW how do I command the UTV to use the second Tuner to record, or is it only invoked when 2 recording events coincide? Naturally PIP fails at this moment.


-- Hung up. I don't even want to touch the MultiSwitch yet to crank up the second UTV downstairs.
 

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After investigating a little more, I see that you are right about the angles. Leave it to them to go against scientific standards. I guess they can consider it "degrees of elevation" or something like that.


On to your new problem. I'm thinking cables still. Why? Well, let's label everything as LNB1, cable1, and tuner1, with 2 as well. You had all 1s connected together as well as all 2s connected together. No evens on tuner2. You switched cables at the LNB, therefore L1->C2->T2 and L2->C1->T1. Still no evens on T2. Therefore both LNBs are ok. Now you switched them so that L1->C2->T1 and L2->C1->T2. Now the tuner with the problem is tuner2. What's the common variable here? Cable2. Probably one of the connectors.
 

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Ownersedge,


"To run this down, I first swapped cables at the dual LNB -- same result so both elements of the LNB should be ok. That should prove out each cable too, right? "


Not really - regarding proving that the cables are OK. Since you swapped LNB outputs and still had the problem in the same tuner (#2), you are proving that the entire chain for the good tuner (#1) is OK and that both LNB elements are fine. Then the question is if the tuners are OK or is there a problem between the LNB and the tuners (i.e., the cable/connections).


"Next I swap cables at the Tuner inputs. Now signal tests are also swapped, and System Test says Tuner 1 Fails. Tuner 2 is OK. So neither tuner is broken as far as detecting signal, right? btw, I did not change channels during all this. "


Since the problem changed to tuner #1 (previously good) when you changed cables at the inputs, you have proved out the tuners.


So that leaves the cable or connectors for the tuner #1 connection. If you crimped your own connectors, I'd check out those connectors.


I had the same occur, but on one of my 2 UTVs. Replaced the self-made crimp connections and the problem disappeared.


Good Luck,

SteveK
 

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You didn't mention which dish you installed?


A common mistake is to select the wrong dish type in setup..


Most setups are the first selection! A round dish with a single physical feed horn which may have single or dual LNB amplifiers..... one or two coax connections on the feed horn.


Number of LNB's a is physical count... not an "amplifier" count.


A single LNB (really a feed horn) can be a "dual" or "single" LNB.


So do you have one or two "feed horns" on your dish? Just a thought..
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by DaveNinja
I had this happen, it turned out that I forgot to hook the UTV to the coax after i ran it through the attic/wall. boy, did i feel smart.


-dave
I've had DTV since the first day it started, and did something even more stupid....


Well, I get the whole thing hooked up -- and of course now it's raining when it comes time to point the thing...


2 hours in the rain.. Nuttin but 0's.... And a neighbor who's now soaking wet too from trying helping me...


I get ready to take it apart to take it back and take a good HARD look at the back of the thing... The old RCA's had 3 coax connectors close together -- IN from ant, IN from Sat, OUT to tv...


Well, the sat dish IS an attenna, isn't it????? Moved the cable, 5 minutes later had signal.


Whattadope :)


-old
 
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