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Discussion Starter #1
Wud up, boys?! I'm pretty new here, but have done a lot of research lately. Tonight I pulled the trigger and brought home an InFocus X1. I want to hook up a DVD player and Xbox to it using the highest-quality method possible. From what I've read, it seems that the best option is to put the three video output wires from the Xbox's high definition wiring pack into a "Component to VESA Adapter", which in turn plugs into the back of the X1. Then I will just run the two audio wires to my stereo receiver. Is what I said correct so far?


OK, then I will have to hook the DVD player up to it somehow. What is the best way to do that from a progressive scan DVD player?


I have it set-up right now on the floor and stuff's strewn all over the place, but I would like to be able to extend the wire lengths so that I have more flexibility on where I can put each piece of equipment. What are some extender wires that I could buy that are good enough quality for HD images? Also, should I set-up a switch of some sort between the Xbox inputs into the projector and the DVD inputs into the projector?


Sorry to ask so much, but I'm quite the newbie when it comes to AV stuff. Oh, one more thing -- the manager from Circuit City said that their 4-yr extended warranty ($149.99) on my X1 would cover any and all bulb replacements for the next 4 years. I got it because it's a deal, as I'm surely going to need at least 1 or 2 replacement bulbs over the next 4 years. Am I crazy, or is Circuit City gonna lose a ton of money on that (considering bulbs cost $300 a piece!)?


(Attached is a picture of Tony Hawk 4 on Xbox. Right now I just have it hooked up through standard video and not HD. I have to order that VESA adapter thing I believe.)
 

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If you want to use both the progressive scan on XBox and your DVD player, I'd look into getting:


KVM switch or VGA switch. These will provide you a few VGA inputs for switching and a VGA output to send to the x1 VGA input


Two of either:

- VGA-to-Component adapters with a component cable for each adapter.

- VGA-to-Component breakout cables.


One VGA cable to connect from the switch to the X1.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Quote:
Originally posted by ClarenceR
If you want to use both the progressive scan on XBox and your DVD player, I'd look into getting:


KVM switch or VGA switch. These will provide you a few VGA inputs for switching and a VGA output to send to the x1 VGA input


Two of either:

- VGA-to-Component adapters with a component cable for each adapter.

- VGA-to-Component breakout cables.


One VGA cable to connect from the switch to the X1.
Thanks, Clarence. I realize now that I basically have to have the component-to-VGA adapter if I want high definition Xbox through the X1. I just ordered it for nine bucks or so online, so it should get here this coming week.


For now I'll probably hold off on the switch and DVD adapter and such. Since DVD isn't high definition, couldn't I just plug in the s-video output from the DVD player to the X1's s-video input?


Oh, and what do you think of that Circuit City warranty? I still can't believe that for $149 they say that they'll replace my bulb as many times as necessary for 4 years.
 

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NO

IF you want to use progressive mode of Xbox get/use the Vesa/Component adaptor (15 pin vga to 3 rca plugs).

Unless you have a high $$ dvd player which already has the dcdi faroudja chip you SHOULD buy the SPECIAL s-video to component adaptor directly from Infocus website.

The X1 has a great DCDI progressive chip in it.

The SPECIAL adaptor has extra pins.


MY progressive DVD player looks better in interlaced (normal) mode using the SVIDEO adaptor and the X1's built in chip.


The Xbox's dashboard is interlaced only. You won't be able to see it if you hook up to vga port. Only progressive games will show up when xbox is set to progressive. If you want to play interlaced you'll have to connect to svideo/component adaptors.

Confused? Read the X1 un-official faq. DO a quick search.

Your questions are VERY common!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Bob: Thanks for helping me out. Let me share more info.


"IF you want to use progressive mode of Xbox get/use the Vesa/Component adaptor (15 pin vga to 3 rca plugs)."


Yes, I do want to take advantage of progressive HD Xbox. I just ordered that adapter tonight, and I'm psyched for when it gets here this coming week.


"Unless you have a high $$ dvd player which already has the dcdi faroudja chip you SHOULD buy the SPECIAL s-video to component adaptor directly from Infocus website. MY progressive DVD player looks better in interlaced (normal) mode using the SVIDEO adaptor and the X1's built in chip."


I don't have a home theater-style DVD player really. Are you saying I could get any cheapo DVD player and it'll look just as good as any progressive scan player?


"The Xbox's dashboard is interlaced only. You won't be able to see it if you hook up to vga port. Only progressive games will show up when xbox is set to progressive. If you want to play interlaced you'll have to connect to svideo/component adaptors."


Yeah, I have it hooked up now using just the yellow video out cable of the Xbox. Once I get my VGA-component adapter, I'll put the high def outputter back onto the Xbox and run its video components into the X1's VGA input port.


"Confused? Read the X1 un-official faq. DO a quick search. Your questions are VERY common!"


I mostly "have it" after several days of researching all this stuff :) . That FAQ is really helpful, as is this AVS Forum community. Thanks everyone.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Rocckkstar
Thanks, Clarence. I realize now that I basically have to have the component-to-VGA adapter if I want high definition Xbox through the X1. I just ordered it for nine bucks or so online, so it should get here this coming week.


For now I'll probably hold off on the switch and DVD adapter and such. Since DVD isn't high definition, couldn't I just plug in the s-video output from the DVD player to the X1's s-video input?


Oh, and what do you think of that Circuit City warranty? I still can't believe that for $149 they say that they'll replace my bulb as many times as necessary for 4 years.
I have an el-cheapo Apex connected to the X1 using S-Video; the DVD players' picture quality w/the help of the X1's Faroudja chip makes the image look like it was coming from a more expensive player. IMO it wouldn't hurt to try the S-Video input. I don't have an S-Video-to-Component so I can't say how much that would improve picture quality over S-Video alone.


About that warranty...hmm, methinks you've a good deal with that 4 year coverage. I'm still figuring out how and when I'm going to get an extra bulb.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Rocckkstar
Are you saying I could get any cheapo DVD player and it'll look just as good as any progressive scan player?
No. Interlaced isn't going to look as good as progressive scan, no matter what chips it goes through.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by NaTeDoGG
No. Interlaced isn't going to look as good as progressive scan, no matter what chips it goes through.
Hold your horses NaTeDoGG. It's not quite as black & white as that. Where do you think the DVD player gets its progressive output? If you research it a bit, you'll discover that the content on the DVD is interlaced... it has to be deinterlaced into progressive. And that can take place either in the DVD player or in the X1.


If you are using the progressive output of the DVD player then it has been deinterlaced with whatever chip is used in the player. If you are using interlaced output from the DVD player then it gets deinterlaced by the X1's Faroudja deinterlacer.


Either way, it starts out as interlaced and then gets deinterlaced into a progressive output by a chip somewhere. You can't make a blanket statement like you did that the progressive output of the player will look better than the interlaced output. You have to consider and compare the chip in the DVD player with the one in the X1. It can have a significant effect on the final quality, and it is possible that the DVD's progressive output may look no better (or even worse) than the image you get from the interlaced output.
 

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xbox in (scaled) HD is the only way 2 go..


If you have multiple sources that require the VGA port, then look at possible KVM solutions.


Also if you need to be able to view the xbox dashboad, you can hook the green connector from the High-Def Pack to your composite (yellow) connection on your X1 and you'll be able to view the dash -- (in black & white).


I peronsally have the KVM solution and my xbox, dvd player, HTPC, HDTV connections all going through it to the X1.. i woudln't do it any other way, a KVM is necessary if you plan on having an HTPC in the mix of devices your switching between.


Good luck mang!
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by technut Canada
Hold your horses NaTeDoGG.
Mmmm, I went back and consulted Secrets , and you're right. I was thinking of native NTSC interlaced video material. Its an important note that I think they should make clearer: when 24fps film material MPEG-2 decoded as interlaced fields is displayed through an interlaced DVD player, the two fields that make up each frame are from the same point in time. In native NTSC interlaced video material they are from two different points in time.
 

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For all of those who posted they have KVM switches, check out this thread here...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=321674


One member stated.... "Great idea (KVM switches are), but this will not work typically. VGA is different voltage than component. One is 1V PP and other other .7V PP as I recall. Will work OK on some sources, but high bandwidth sources, like from the JVC 30K, will cause white areas to deform and other picture oddities. "


Can anyone confirm this information?
 

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NaTeDoGG and Technut are both correct, they are just not talking about the same stuff.


A Simplified Video Recipe:


Luminance: Brightness or intensity of the image. How much light it radiates.

Chrominance: Color of the above described image.

Temporal resolution: Number of frames of unique still images shown per second.

Display Resolution: Number of horizontal/vertical lines/pixels displayed for each frame.


Normally we bunch Luma and Chroma together and call this the transport. This way we have only three things to describe in order to explain what impacts our video quality.


1. Luma/Chroma are most influenced by the type of connection you use between the source and display.:


Composite: All signals are mixed into a single wire and then at the display the individual signals are filtered (comb filter). Since filters are never perfect, i.e. they are defined by a slope, we invariably must throw away some information while we are filtering. This is why you can often see shimmering and artifacts with composite displays and a simple test pattern.


S-Video or Y/C: Two wires are used to transmit the signal. Chroma and Luma are sent separately and no filtering is done. The only challenge here is the chroma. Chroma is defined as a 3D vector space and must be jammed into a single signal. Much better than composite but not ideal since you still must filter the colors.


Component: Component uses at least three separate lines to transfer the information. It can be additive or subtractive; RGB is additive and sends thee color intensities in order to describe the picture. Y Pr Pb sends Luma (Y) and the Red (Pr) and Blue (Pb) differences. Green is what is left over when you subtract the red and blue from the luma, hence this is subtractive. Other color standards exist but they are more of the same. The key here is that you can exactly describe the picture without filters. Note that component signals do not care if they are interlaced, progressive, HD or whatever. The same math applies to all, you just change the data rate of the interface (You will see the word Bandwidth used to describe this)


2. Temporal resolution: The art of interpolating information between two frames that exist in the source to produce additional frames between the two known frames. Technically NTSC uses two fields to describe each frame. First field has odd lines, second field has even lines. The display draws the frame by first showing the first field (odd lines) then the second filed (even lines), i.e. it interlaces the display. De-Interlacers take the two fields and combine them into a single frame and the display device show both odd and even lines at the same time. In addition to this one can also include fancy stuff like 3:2 pull down which compensates for the discrepancy of the source material frame rate and the display device fixed signal compatibility. TV broadcasts and video material are 29.97 frames per second (we simplify by calling it 30 fps). Film material is 24 frames per second. The 3:2 pull down is used to repeat a frame at key intervals to allow 24fps material to work smooth and without visible stutters on devices expecting 30fps. Also, some display devices have higher display frame rates, for example projectors often work at 60 frames per second. The projector must either repeat each frame of the 30 fps signal or it can do interpolation of two frames to create an extra frame. This often yields a smoother perception of motion in video material but can also "soften" the picture a bit since high contrast areas (object edges) can loose their crisp defining lines.


3. Display resolution: NTSC defines 720x480 and 704x480. ATSC adds 1280x720 and 1920x1080. DVDs are typically 720x480. The display device must scale whatever signal is given to it in order to fit the image to it's native capabilities. Interpolation and extrapolation are both used and in-itself this is not too hard to do on a still image. The real science is doing this on moving images especially if you already de-interlaced and created a few extra frames etc. It becomes very much complicated when you have to take into consideration temporal resolution since you can use more than one frame to do the math.


Number 2 and 3 are what the Faroudja chip is clearly the solution to beat. They do this very well. Items 2 and 3 are all interpolative, i.e. you add information based on your ability to predict motion or predict dimension. This is the art of creating greater perception of details from that which is already known. Notice the use of the work "Perception".


For item number 1 using composite or s-video forces the source device to actually throw away information and it is very difficult to predict that information back into the image. i.e. it is gone for good and most attempts to date to try and add it back yielded poor results. That is why no one bothered with it and instead they offered Component transport.


So the bottom line is: Regardless of Faroudja, DScaler, DVDO or other processors, the best transport for feeding said devices is component signal. If you feed your processor anything less than that it will impact the amount of useful data the processor has to work with.


The X1 may have limitations on which signals the scaler triggers on and for that you can consult the FAQ.


Ultimately, your eyes are the ones that will tell you what is good enough.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by cirtes
NaTeDoGG and Technut are both correct, they are just not talking about the same stuff.
Actually, I think you are the one who added a new twist. As far as I know both NaTeDoGG and I were talking about interlaced component vs. progressive component. Then you threw in composite and S-video, which certainly is a different issue. But thanks for the summary of all the various elements, it should be helpful to many others here.
 

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I just got my X1 from Circuit City and they also told me that the $150 plan covers the lamp so I got it and then I called the 1-800 number on the plan and ask there if it really covered the lamp and he said yes also, so I think I got a good deal.
 
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