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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

Hello everyone and thanks in advance for any help and suggestions you give. This forum always seems to come up in my searches so I thought I would join. I'll try to make a very long story very short. It's taken me about 3 yrs to put my system together. I'm just a lowly factory worker so my budget is limited and I really have to watch for sales. I've run into a few snags trying to put the final finishing touches on it. I'm running a 7.1 setup with an Onkyo TXNR-818. I use it for both music and home theater. The front sound stage is the RF7's with the RC64 Center which are all 200 watt RMS. The Onkyo seems to power the RF7's o.k. at 135 watts per ch. But I've read how they sound really awesome when they get some decent power to them. So as you can imagine I'm really wanting to amp up and was all setup to do so but I've run into some infuriating problems.

 

The first of which of course is Onkyo's  BS we'll put the pre outs out there for the main sound stage just to tease you but we won't bother to put a trigger switch there for the amp. Then we'll put trigger switches for ZONE 2 and 3 just to infuriate you more. This is a huge problem to which I will never purchase another Onkyo product again because this is just to retarded to forgive. Oh if you want a trigger on zone one you have to buy one of our Integra's. No thanks, because you did this and it's so stupid I"ll get a different brand avr next time. I know there's work arounds and it's going to be a pain in the ass but I'll deal with it when I finally get an amp as I just bought the 818 recently and can't afford a more expensive avr right now.  I've had it right out with Onkyo on why they would do something so stupid and they can't even give me a decent explanation cause they know it doesn't make any sense as well. Why would you put pre outs for zone one with no trigger switch?????? WOW!!!

 

Which now brings me to an amp choice. Again, I'm on a bit of a budget so I thought the Emotiva XPA-3 would be a good choice for the front sound stage. I called Emotiva and they flat out told me that because the Onkyo didn't have a trigger for zone one I could not use one of there amps. I don't believe this is true as I know other people of done things to make it work. So I was going to go ahead and order one anyway, even though there own techs had no suggestions. I've phoned there twice. Both times there sales guys were busy. I've left my number twice asking them to phone me back as I would like to order an amp and they have never called back. TWICE!! So now I'm convinced that if Emotiva's sales reps can't even be bothered to make a phone call to make a sale then all the posts I've seen about there poor customer service when it comes to warranty work must be true as well. Company's it seems these days have lost all concepts of customer service and how important it really is. So Onkyo and Emotiva will not get my business.

 

So what I'm really wondering now is. Is there any other amps out there that I can consider for around $1000? I would like one that sounds good for music as well because I listen to a lot of music.  I was going to go with two outlaw mono blocks as I've heard they work really well and that outlaws customer service is very good. But I've read posts that say they didn't sound that great for music and that the Emotiva's sounded better.

 

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Paul
 

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Take a look at this calculator about sound levels and the

Power needed to get loud. Question is, how loud do you

Listen. Using a 100 watts from the Onkyo will sound the same

As a 100 watts from an Emotiva. The Klipsch speakers are

Very efficient and will get obscenely loud with just a bit of power.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html


So punching numbers in for your mains at 9 feet of listening,with a 100 watts

Gives you 114dbs....above uncomfortably loud, you are probably

Using less than 10 watts, still very loud! 104dbs.


Your rant about the lack of triggers is justified,hard to believe they would do that.

The Outlaw monos have a signal sensing circuit so, no trigger is needed.

If find it very hard to believe that the Emotiva sounds better than the Outlaw,

Sounds like a fantasy to me.


In the end it is your very hard earned money,IMHO

You will get very little "return on your investment" by

Getting into external amps.


Good Luck
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshoppers  /t/1522661/newbie-needs-suggestions-please-help#post_24486535


Take a look at this calculator about sound levels and the

Power needed to get loud. Question is, how loud do you

Listen. Using a 100 watts from the Onkyo will sound the same

As a 100 watts from an Emotiva. The Klipsch speakers are

Very efficient and will get obscenely loud with just a bit of power.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html


So punching numbers in for your mains at 9 feet of listening,with a 100 watts

Gives you 114dbs....above uncomfortably loud, you are probably

Using less than 10 watts, still very loud! 104dbs.


Your rant about the lack of triggers is justified,hard to believe they would do that.

The Outlaw monos have a signal sensing circuit so, no trigger is needed.

If find it very hard to believe that the Emotiva sounds better than the Outlaw,

Sounds like a fantasy to me.


In the end it is your very hard earned money,IMHO

You will get very little "return on your investment" by

Getting into external amps.


Good Luck

+1. I will also add that the calculator is overly conservative because it uses the anechoic factor for determining SPL loss over distance. In an actual room you need less than half the power suggested by the calculator. The greatest power dissipation I've measured in my system is 18 watts. That was during an explosion in a movie.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·

It's really not more volume I'm looking for, I'm hoping for more definition in the sound putting the proper watts to the speakers.  I've read posts on the RF7's and they are very energy efficient speakers that can be driven by just about anything. However these posts have also said that the 7's true personality came out when the they put the proper wattage to them. So I guess my next question is. Is wattage only about volume? Or does it increase the sound quality of your speakers as well?

 

Paul
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Peterson  /t/1522661/newbie-needs-suggestions-please-help#post_24489349


It's really not more volume I'm looking for, I'm hoping for more definition in the sound putting the proper watts to the speakers.  I've read posts on the RF7's and they are very energy efficient speakers that can be driven by just about anything. However these posts have also said that the 7's true personality came out when the they put the proper wattage to them. So I guess my next question is. Is wattage only about volume? Or does it increase the sound quality of your speakers as well?


Paul

Those comments show a lack of knowledge on the part of the people who made them. Ignoring the concept that speakers have varying "personalities" you should understand that speakers draw the current they need to operate at the power level you have dialed in with the volume control. They don't draw more or less. They draw exactly what they need. How much power capacity the amplifier has is not relevant at all as long as it can deliver the current without clipping. 20 watts from a 50 watt amplifier is exactly the same as 20 watts from a 200 watt amplifier. Power delivery capacity that is not used is simply not used. It doesn't cause a speaker to change its "personality."


If an amplifier is asked to deliver more current than it is capable of delivering, you will have a thermal shutdown or a loss of sound quality. If it can deliver what is required, all is well. I isn't any more complicated than that. How much power do you need? I don't know. But I do know that few home audio users ever use more than about 20 watts per channel even in volume peaks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
So if I"m understanding what your saying. The answer to my question is. Wattage is all about volume and not sound quality? The only thing a 200 watt amp would bring to my 7's is more loudness and not more bass or definition at lower levels? If this it truly the case then I probably really don't require another amp. I do like the music loud and the Onkyo does get a little warm, but the Onkyo cranked up with the 7's will put you out of the room lol. What started my longng for an amp was that I was over to a buddys house that has the now retired Klipsch 83's. He was using them just for music on an old 200watt Sansui amp and pre-amp. Those things really hit hard even at low levels. That just got me thinking about what some forums were saying about hearing more definition with more power. But if I truly am not going to HEAR any differnece in them expcept for loudness then your right in assuming I could do other things with 1000 bucks.
 
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