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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Greetings


My name is Kris and i've just begun shopping for an HD -ready (i.e. without a tuner built-in) 16:9 size with 1080i/480p capability. my price range is 2000-2500. I was hoping to draw on the wisdom of the people on this board who seem to be very familiar w/ the nuances of this.

I live in NYC and i will be using the tv for DVDs and video games only. I don't have any cable and don't plan on getting it. I am also getting a surround system so the built in sound of the tv is a much lesser issue. I have a pro-scan dvd player w/ component video out a PS2 and XBOX. I'm looking for 50in+

Some of the models that seem like possibilities are the

Sony KP51HW40

Toshiba 53HX71

Toshiba 50H81

Toshiba 50H80

Toshiba 65H80

Samsung HCL652WX

Panasonic PT56WX51

This list is pretty much what i've seen in my range. The pioneer non-elites also look good but are a bit of a stretch on my budget. I would consider it if they really are a cut above the rest of these models. Any feedback on these tv's and their comparative values is tremendously appreciated. I've read quite a bit about home theater, but i feel like it has only equipped me w/ a vocabulary and would love to kow the opinions of those who deal with this regularly. Thanks, Kris
 

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The only advantage to getting a HD ready model is to play XBOX games in 480p. The PS2 doesn't output a progressive signal and you said nothing about your DVD player being progressive.


One thing you should think about is the size room you are putting the TV in. What would be the distance from the actual screen to your eyeballs? You have to take this into consideration. First you have to understand that you set will probably be almost a foot away from the wall, and then from the back of the TV to the actual screen is another 2 feet or so. Then your sofa might be a foot or so away from the other wall, and your eyeballs when sitting in the sofa might be about 2 feet from the back of the sofa. So you should be very precise when measuring the distance.


Unless you have a solid 11 feet or more from the screen to your eyeballs, I would concentrate on the 53 inch to 47 inch models.


I like the Sony 51 inch and the Toshiba 50 inch (50HX81 version). I'm sure that the XBOX would look outstanding on both, and if you got a progressive DVD player, the dvd movies would look outstanding on both.


You might want to get rid of your PS2 in favor of the Nintendo Gamecube, because there are some great Gamecube games that have a 480p mode.
 

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I too am searching for the perfect XBox gaming HDTV. What I have found, much to my annoyance, is that it does not exist (not at a reasonable price anyway).


The main reason is this: burn in. All television sets currently on the market that are within your price range and size requirements (much like my requirements) will have eventual burn-in from playing games. The main reason is this: games have static graphics. Almost every game out there has something on the screen that either does not change or changes very little. Things such as scoreboards, HUDs, health bars, ammo displays, etc.... Eventually, displaying the same image in the same spot will cause burn-in. I doubt you'd notice anything for a few years, but if you buy a set now for this purpose you will eventually destroy it. Also, leaving the game on pause for extended periods of time can have the same result.


There are a few solutions on the near horizon. By near horizon I mean the next few months. Some of the newer technologies do not have this problem. Specifically I have heard that the DLP rear projection televisions do not have burn-in issues. Currently, the DLP sets are too expensive. They cost around 8-10k online. Samsung evidently has one coming out soon (announced as "summer" if I am remembering correctly) that is a 50" DLP rear projection set. This set is supposed to retail for $4500. They also have a set that's around 42-43". This set should be less, around $2999 I think. Again, those are MSRP prices, so you can get them online for around 75% of that number if you don't mind dealing with flaky warrantys.


I recently purchased a Mitsubish 55" HDTV, but am going to return it for the above reasons and wait for the 2nd generation (and thus cheaper) DLP RPTVs to hit the market. I might pick up a 38" direct view HDTV in the meantime.
 

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midnite arrow: I think that you are dramatically overstating the reality of burn in. It is true that static images left on a screen in the exact same location can eventually cause burn in, but it is much harder to actually do that in real life then you might think. Realistically, you would need to put a game on pause and leave your TV on with that image on the sceen for a very long period of time, to achieve burn in.


If you are a hardcore gamer, and you are going to play games on your Rear Projection, then all you need is a little common sense and you shouldn't have any problems.


1. In the game options, if you have the ability to turn off health meters and huds and any other static displays, then do so. More and more games nowadays include this feature.


2. If you ever have to pause your game for more than a couple of minutes, then change the input on your tv to a direct tv signal, or simply turn your tv off alltogether.


3. Keep your gaming sessions to under 2 hours straight. Mix in regular TV or DVD movies regularly.


4. Make sure that your contrast isn't on "Torch Mode". Get either Avia or Video Essentials, and dial in the brightness and contrast to the appropriate levels.


5. If it is a widescreen 16:9 model, make sure the picture fills up the entire screen. Use the necessary stretch modes to accomplish this.



If you do all of these things, then you shouldn't have any problems. It really is harder to burn in an image than you might think. If you really wanted to burn an image in, you would have to leave a static screen on pause for literally days to accomplish this. If you follow the above guidelines, then you shouldn't have to worry about this. Just make sure you don't have 5 hour gaming marathons, and make sure that you are mixing in plenty of regular TV programming and DVD movies. Make sure your contrast is turned down, and that you are using the necessary stretch modes to fill the screen.


It's funny when I hear about all these horror stories about burn in, that are so overrated.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by MidniteArrow
The only advantage to getting a HD ready model is to play XBOX games in 480p. The PS2 doesn't output a progressive signal and you said nothing about your DVD player being progressive.


One thing you should think about is the size room you are putting the TV in. What would be the distance from the actual screen to your eyeballs? You have to take this into consideration. First you have to understand that you set will probably be almost a foot away from the wall, and then from the back of the TV to the actual screen is another 2 feet or so. Then your sofa might be a foot or so away from the other wall, and your eyeballs when sitting in the sofa might be about 2 feet from the back of the sofa. So you should be very precise when measuring the distance.


Unless you have a solid 11 feet or more from the screen to your eyeballs, I would concentrate on the 53 inch to 47 inch models.


I like the Sony 51 inch and the Toshiba 50 inch (50HX81 version). I'm sure that the XBOX would look outstanding on both, and if you got a progressive DVD player, the dvd movies would look outstanding on both.


You might want to get rid of your PS2 in favor of the Nintendo Gamecube, because there are some great Gamecube games that have a 480p mode.
actually ps2 has 480p capabilities (Tekken 4 will be the first game to use 480p). xbox and gamecube both support 1080i too. xbox even supports 720p which is better than 1080i
 

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skyline: I think you are mistaken. Tekken 4 for the PS2 is actually one of the first PS2 games to be 640 x 480 interlaced! Not progressive. 95 percent of PS2 games render at 640 x 220 interlaced, but there are a few that are coming down the pipe that will actually be 640 x 480, but they are still interlaced and not progressive scan.


Some PS2 programmers are working on special programming tricks to trick the PS2 into doing 480p, but it is being done in "Software", and won't look anywhere near as good as XBOX or Gamecube progressive scan games.


The problem with the PS2 is with it's video ram. Sony really screwed up by not giving it enough video ram. Technically the PS2 tops out at 1280 x 1024 progressive, but as of yet, has only seen 640 x 480 interlaced in terms of real world rendering. Developers could make TRUE 480p games on the PS2 if they wanted to, but the cost of doing so would be too harsh on the final product. A game that ran at 60 frames per second at 640 x 220 would now run at 15 to 19 frames per second. This is simply unacceptable to current gamers and that is why there isn't a single progressive scan game available for the PS2 even though nearly 400 games have been released world wide.
 

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I was just reading on another forum that Tekken 4 actually is the first 480p PS2 game, so I have to apologize, I stand corrected! However, please note that Namco is achieving the 480p display through software trickery, and not through hardware, like the XBOX and Gamecube do.



Still, I would love to check out Tekken 4 for the PS2 on a HDTV. I sold my PS2 back when the XBOX and Gamecube came out. I would buy a PS2 now, to check it out, but it is only one game. Once the majority of new PS2 games are using this software trick for 480p, then I might buy a PS2 again.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony1
midnite arrow: I think that you are dramatically overstating the reality of burn in. It is true that static images left on a screen in the exact same location can eventually cause burn in, but it is much harder to actually do that in real life then you might think. Realistically, you would need to put a game on pause and leave your TV on with that image on the sceen for a very long period of time, to achieve burn in.


If you are a hardcore gamer, and you are going to play games on your Rear Projection, then all you need is a little common sense and you shouldn't have any problems.


1. In the game options, if you have the ability to turn off health meters and huds and any other static displays, then do so. More and more games nowadays include this feature.


2. If you ever have to pause your game for more than a couple of minutes, then change the input on your tv to a direct tv signal, or simply turn your tv off alltogether.


3. Keep your gaming sessions to under 2 hours straight. Mix in regular TV or DVD movies regularly.


4. Make sure that your contrast isn't on "Torch Mode". Get either Avia or Video Essentials, and dial in the brightness and contrast to the appropriate levels.


5. If it is a widescreen 16:9 model, make sure the picture fills up the entire screen. Use the necessary stretch modes to accomplish this.



If you do all of these things, then you shouldn't have any problems. It really is harder to burn in an image than you might think. If you really wanted to burn an image in, you would have to leave a static screen on pause for literally days to accomplish this. If you follow the above guidelines, then you shouldn't have to worry about this. Just make sure you don't have 5 hour gaming marathons, and make sure that you are mixing in plenty of regular TV programming and DVD movies. Make sure your contrast is turned down, and that you are using the necessary stretch modes to fill the screen.


It's funny when I hear about all these horror stories about burn in, that are so overrated.
Anthony1: I agree with your statements that the above are steps that you can take to reduce or even eliminate the burn-in issues. I did not mean to state that it was going to ruin the set overnight. However, I personally refuse to schedule my life around the limitations of a piece of hardware if I don't have to. The simple fact is that I do have 5 hour gaming sessions. Actually, We've had up to 72 hour gaming sessions. Granted, there are some variations in the games being played, but I do not want this limitation. Another use I will be using the set for is as a display for a computer source. This is where the real burn-in danger lies for me. I will be running Windows on the TV, which has many static graphics. Could I arrange my usage so that it minimized the danger to the TV? Yes. Will I? No. I'd rather just wait for the low-cost DLP sets to hit the market, or maybe even wait for the 1080p ones in Q4.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
First i want to thank all of you for input. I really appreciate it. Also, i wanna ask what you think about the Panasonic PT47WX49. It's a 47 inch, but b/c the price is as low as 1500 at some online reatilers, i was wary. In general, you get what you pay for. Anyway, i do have a progressive scan DVD player (someone asked earlier). Again thoughts on this model would be great. I so far like the panasonic, the Sony KP51HW40 51, and the Panasonic PT56WX51. Again, though, i found the Panny 56 inch for only 2400, so again it seem underpriced relative to peers, and i don't know why. The Toshiba 57HX81 is a little out of the budget at $2500+

Thanks in advance for feedback

Kris
 
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