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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Is Dolby True HD and DTS HD only available via HDMI, i.e. not through the 5.1 co-axial analogue outputs?

Had a PS3 in my system, watching a couple of Blu-Ray movies, but thought i might buy a Blu-ray player instead because I wanted the next gen audio formats as well as the HD pq.

I assumed that because the Blu-ray players have built in Dolby True HD and DTS HD decoders I could let the Blu-ray player decode the audio and output it through the 5.1 analogue outputs. This way I can get the new sound formats without having to change my AV processor, simply by feeding the 5.1 outputs from the Blu-ray player into the 5.1 inputs on the A/V processor.

I heard today that this won't work and Dolby True HD and DTS HD are only available through the HDMI outputs.

If this is the case I'll go ahead and buy a PS3.

Can someone give me a definitive answer on the above please?
 

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I believe the Panasonic or the LG dual format are the only Blu-Ray players currently out with a decoder and 5.1 analog outs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Sorry, doesn't answer the question. That's what I assumed, just like in the early days of dvd, if your A/V processor didn't have Dolby or DTS built in, you could decode in your dvd player and output the 5.1 sound via the six co-axial analogue outputs from your dvd player.

I now think that if if your Blu-ray player has the six analogue outputs you can't get Dolby True HD or DTS HD out of these outputs, only by the hdmi output.

I was trying to save changing my A/V processor at the moment by doing the Dolby True HD and DTS HD decoding within the Blu-ray player.


So can anyone clarify this point?
 

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I think I can help. If you do indeed have a player with built-in decoding AND analog 5.1 outputs you can use that instead of a new receiver. However, I don't think any Blu-Ray player currently available can decode Dolby TruHD and DTS-HD (nobody has decoding of DTS-HD yet....) and has 5.1 analog outputs. One Blu-Ray player I do think has it is the new second generation Panasonic player coming soon. Hope this helps! BTW the I do know the PS3 can output at least 7.1 uncompressed and 7.1 Dolby TruHD via HDMI, but that doesn't help you.......
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Just visited DTS and Dolby.com. DTS very clear that if your HD player has DTS HD decoder built in and you have six analogue outputs you can enjoy DTS HD.
From DTS website

6 to 8 Channel Analog Connection

In this scenario, the high definition player will output DTS-HD Audio through the analog outputs of the player to your AV Receiver. The DTS-HD Master Audio or DTS-HD High Resolution will be decoded by the player and sent out as analog audio signals to the AV Receiver. You would Simply connect 6, 7, or 8 RCA cables from the analog outputs of the player to the analog inputs on your AV Receiver. The number of analog cables will be determined by the number of analog output/inputs on the player and receiver. The analog signals will go directly to the receiver's amplifier section. In this way you can enjoy DTS-HD Master Audio that is bit-for-bit identical to the studio master.


Dolby's site is not as clear but my understanding is they say the same thing - for Dolby TrueHD of course.

So looks like I won't be buying a PS3 after all.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheridd2 /forum/post/0


Just visited DTS and Dolby.com. DTS very clear that if your HD player has DTS HD decoder built in and you have six analogue outputs you can enjoy DTS HD.
From DTS website

6 to 8 Channel Analog Connection

In this scenario, the high definition player will output DTS-HD Audio through the analog outputs of the player to your AV Receiver. The DTS-HD Master Audio or DTS-HD High Resolution will be decoded by the player and sent out as analog audio signals to the AV Receiver. You would Simply connect 6, 7, or 8 RCA cables from the analog outputs of the player to the analog inputs on your AV Receiver. The number of analog cables will be determined by the number of analog output/inputs on the player and receiver. The analog signals will go directly to the receiver's amplifier section. In this way you can enjoy DTS-HD Master Audio that is bit-for-bit identical to the studio master.


Dolby's site is not as clear but my understanding is they say the same thing - for Dolby TrueHD of course.

So looks like I won't be buying a PS3 after all.

Are you presuming that DTS-HD and TrueHD can be sent as coded bitstream over analog? If so, this goes against my understanding that HDMI 1.3 with Silicon Image Vastline 9134) was the only current possible way to transport coded bitstream to a receiver capable of decoding it.


Seperate Question: Why not just let the player decode it and send it as PCM over analog multichannel?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The DTS site lists all the ways to get DTS HD, one of them being the way I have copied from their site, i.e. using a Blu-ray player with a built in DTS HD decoder, let the player decode the audio and send it to your A/V processor via the 6 analogue cables.
 

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A PS3 update

should fix that
 

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Don't mean to hijack this thread, but while we are on the subject of audio...


What is the best connection if you DON'T have HDMI?


Is the 5.1 analog better that Digital coax? (or optical)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WirelessGuru /forum/post/0



Seperate Question: Why not just let the player decode it and send it as PCM over analog multichannel?

That's exactly what the players do. The Panasonic can process DTS HD and Dolby TrueHD and send the signal via HDMI as PCM or via the analog outputs.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolution2007 /forum/post/0


I think I can help. However, I don't think any Blu-Ray player currently available can decode Dolby TruHD and DTS-HD (nobody has decoding of DTS-HD yet....) and has 5.1 analog outputs.

The current Panasonic (with the latest firmware) can process Dolby True HD and DTS HD and output the signal via HDMI as PCM and also via it's 7.1 analog outputs.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheridd2 /forum/post/0


Sorry, doesn't answer the question. That's what I assumed, just like in the early days of dvd, if your A/V processor didn't have Dolby or DTS built in, you could decode in your dvd player and output the 5.1 sound via the six co-axial analogue outputs from your dvd player.

I now think that if if your Blu-ray player has the six analogue outputs you can't get Dolby True HD or DTS HD out of these outputs, only by the hdmi output.

I was trying to save changing my A/V processor at the moment by doing the Dolby True HD and DTS HD decoding within the Blu-ray player.


So can anyone clarify this point?

if your player decodes it then yeah. i use powerdvd ultra on my PC and it decodes those formats and outs them out over analog out and into my analog multi-chan inputs on my receiver. i heard some (not yet for PC), perhaps PS3?, can decode them and put them out as seperate PCM tracks over HDMI in which case your receiver just needs to be able to handle multi-channel PCM over HDMI (some do even with only 1.1, some don't). if your receiver has HDMI 1.3 then it can handle that or also accept and decode the new format bitstreams.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by swgiust /forum/post/0


Don't mean to hijack this thread, but while we are on the subject of audio...


What is the best connection if you DON'T have HDMI?


Is the 5.1 analog better that Digital coax? (or optical)

depends upon the quality of the opamps and dacs in your player system vs. your receiver. depends upon whether your player can decode the new format to analog and if so if that is enough to make up for it's outputs if they happen to be worse than your receiver's which they may or may not be.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaRgbE /forum/post/0


The current Panasonic (with the latest firmware) can process Dolby True HD and DTS HD and output the signal via HDMI as PCM and also via it's 7.1 analog outputs.

Correct.

The only format it won't decode is DTS-HD MA.

Everything else it can send out decoded via HDMI or 7.1 analogs.
 

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I have read this thread and am still a bit unsure. I have a Denon 3802 receiver which of course does not have hdmi but does have optical, coax, and 5.1 analog inputs. I have a Sony BDP S1 with firmware 1.6 which as I understand does not decode any of the new HD sound formats. It is connected via coaxial to the 3802 and via component to my Mits 62725 dlp.


Would 5.1 analog from the BDP S1 to the Denon 3802 out to my DefTech speakers and ACI Maestro sub give me any better sound? Or am I hearing the exact same signal as via optical or coaxial?


I am sure a lot of people are in my situation with old receivers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Sony BDP S1 isn't launched in Europe yet, but I presume it launched with Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD, if not, I presume it's like the PS3 in that you can get firmware upgrades, which should allow Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD.

I'm in exactly the same position as the last contributor with my Rotel 1098 processor, no HDMI inputs, but 5.1 analog inputs.

My understanding was that if the Sony BDP S1 had the built in Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD decoders you could let the player decode the soundtrack and pass it to your processor via the analog cables, thus getting next gen sound without having to buy a new HDMI equipped A/V processor.

(Just like you could do in the early days of dvd if your processor didn't have dolby or dts built in).

A dealer told me yesterday you could only get next gen audio formats via a HDMI link, hence this thread.

If this was the case I would buy a PS3 because I would also need a to buy HDMI 1.3 equipped processor in any case to get the next gen audio formats and thus not need to buy the more expensive BDP S1.

(A PS3 does not have 5.1 analog outputs, only hdmi and optical).

DTS website seems to clarify that the HD audio can be decoded in the player and passed to your processor via analog.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolstrategist /forum/post/0


I have read this thread and am still a bit unsure. I have a Denon 3802 receiver which of course does not have hdmi but does have optical, coax, and 5.1 analog inputs. I have a Sony BDP S1 with firmware 1.6 which as I understand does not decode any of the new HD sound formats. It is connected via coaxial to the 3802 and via component to my Mits 62725 dlp.


Would 5.1 analog from the BDP S1 to the Denon 3802 out to my DefTech speakers and ACI Maestro sub give me any better sound? Or am I hearing the exact same signal as via optical or coaxial?


I am sure a lot of people are in my situation with old receivers.

Analog is better if you are decoding PCM internally and sending the pre-amp level to the 3802. Coax and optical only carry lossy compressed sound for multi channel like DTS and DD.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolstrategist /forum/post/0


I have read this thread and am still a bit unsure. I have a Denon 3802 receiver which of course does not have hdmi but does have optical, coax, and 5.1 analog inputs. I have a Sony BDP S1 with firmware 1.6 which as I understand does not decode any of the new HD sound formats. It is connected via coaxial to the 3802 and via component to my Mits 62725 dlp.


Would 5.1 analog from the BDP S1 to the Denon 3802 out to my DefTech speakers and ACI Maestro sub give me any better sound? Or am I hearing the exact same signal as via optical or coaxial?


I am sure a lot of people are in my situation with old receivers.

I send ALL audio out thru the analogs in the Panny to my Denon AVR-4802 and it sounds great.

Give it try.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaRgbE /forum/post/0


The Panasonic has 7.1 analog outputs

I was aware of that. I simply mentioned 5.1 analog since I grouped it in with the LG and there is little to no content available with discrete 7.1 anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaRgbE /forum/post/0


That's exactly what the players do. The Panasonic can process DTS HD and Dolby TrueHD and send the signal via HDMI as PCM or via the analog outputs.

I am aware of this as well. My question was rhetorical.


What is being confused here is the passing of undecoded next generation audio codecs over multichannel analog, which I do not think is possible.


The only way of passing lossless audio through multichannel analog is by decoding it locally (player) and sending it as PCM. Only players with audio decoders on board and multichannel analog outs are capable of doing this. Which at current from the Blu-Ray side are only the Panasonic and the LG as I mentioned earlier.
 
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