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Discussion Starter #1
chris

I was there yesterday too and any gamer would love to have

this half dome projection system.

I believe I have seen this lens at jvc digital its an oval lens displaying picture on a if you can picture it a 7 foot dish type screen.

seating in the middle the feeling is incredible.

In there largest size dome.

They had a Dila I'm guessing its was M20

The table top modles had DLP's

Fitting under table
http://www.elumens.com/



Hugo
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Hugomed:
chris

I was there yesterday too and any gamer would love to have

this half dome projection system.
This is a different system I'm talking about. The HDTV system is at NTT's booth, in a black room set up on the show floor. The dome stuff is ok, but I'm raving about the best pure picture quality.
 

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Thanks Chris.


I would think that at some point we'd want to ponder the meaning of such a high panel resolution. Could you ask someone there why we want to go that high resolution if HDTV is only 1920x1080? Would it serve a purpose to spread the signal out to fill more pixels? Would this not create scaling artifacts? Or would there be some form of reproduction/interpolation of pixel info?


Luca


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I know what you are saying but any Projector at that rez. We will not see in a home use for many years to come.

I saw a great amount of projectors out there that look fantastic but the cost is way out of reach for majority of people.

I would guess we wont see these projectors for 4 to 5 years come down in price.

Chris I like you theater setup.



Anyone know the sight for jvc digital?



Hugo




[This message has been edited by Hugomed (edited 08-15-2001).]
 

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Chris,


Thanks for the information. I normally attend SIGGRAPH but didn't make it this year. It would have been nice to stumble across that projector and setup - I always look for things like that at shows.


Very interesting.


Brian


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I'm pretty sure that JVC is not thinking directly about implementing 2K X 4K chips for home theater use. But for scientific and medical imaging, and moreover for the replacement of film in movie theaters with 40'+ wide screens, the extra resolution would definitely be seen.


But of course today's standard digital movie archiving format is 1080 X 1920p, and either the 1080p material would have to be upconverted 4X or the CE manufacturers would have to build HD cameras, storage devices, and telecine machines capable of recording and mastering 2K X 4K digital material.


It's still cool to see though, and JVC wouldn't have to twist my arm at all to try one out in my home (just on loan) http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif


-Dean.
 

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Clearly we'd have access to the horsepower to scale HD up to that resolution before too long, at a high price at first of course, then falling. But definitely we could make use of it. Its like, why do I watch DVDs at 1280x720, which is far higher than the source resolution. Its because the interpolation provided by a good scanner, though not as good as being there, is very good nonetheless. So a high quality scaler starting from quality HD content could probably create quite an image on that high resolution a screen.



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I just talked with the JVC rep at the NTT booth. He said this is a research prototype that is being shown to the public for the first time here at SIGGRAPH. Some of the specs are:


3-1.7" D-ILA devices

3840x2048 display

5200 ANSI Lumens

1.875:1 aspect ratio

Greater than 750:1 contrast

12-bit gamma

10-bit color channels


It was a very beautiful display -- even with a few dead pixels. Unfortunately, it will be quite some time before these (or the QXGA -- see below) will be available at home theater price points. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif They are definitely going after the digital cinema market and post-production houses. Hopefully, some of this tech will trickle down to us eventually.


Another note of interest is that he said JVC expects to have the QXGA systems in full-scale production by the end of the year, and they are hoping to get the cost down to under $200k. Still a long way to go before they reach the consumer market.


Kevin
 

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The Consortium is proposing this as a complete future system. After viewing a lot of HD demo material in the industry's HD test theater, the Pacific, I'd have to say the TI DLP is still inadequate. On a 50' wide screen 1280 x 1024 is just not enough for the first 8 rows.
 

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Chris,


Agreed! Not only was the 2k*4k spectacular it really exposes the shortcomings of 1280*1024 for digital cinema. Did you also happen to see the IBM high res LCD's? They were similar in resolution on a 22" LCD screen with excellent contrast and brightness. Both were absolutely amazing images, all this after being blown away by QXGA at Infocom. Who knew it could get so much better this fast?


BTW, I believe current telecine machines scan 35 mm film at 2k lines, so the resolution is there at the source to drive the JVC projector. As Dean says the current *storage* standard is 1920*1080p, which NTT is trying to change. It is technically quite possible, hopefully it will happen soon!


Also, do any of the Siggraph attendees remember the website for the parallel ray tracer that Square USA developed. It's something like www.squareusa.com/(name of product).


Regards,


Kam Fung
 

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The ultimate goal of high def should be to deliver as much detail as the human eye can perceive. There is no such thing as too much resolution. No one ever claimed that 1080P came anywhere close to 35mm film for sheer detail. Digital technology of the future should strive to surpass the resolution of existing emulsion media, even 70mm. The trickle down from this new technology will come.


Mike
 

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I don't know if any other AVSers are here at Siggraph, but I just saw the future of HDTV. A consortum of Japanese companies, led by NTT, is demoing a proposed future HDTV system with a resolution of 2048 by 3840. It has an aspect ratio of 1.875 as opposed to the 1.77 of current HD. It also has less color space compression, with a full 8 bits per channel RGB. It's designed around 24 fps, but displays at 96 fps.


The prototype display device is by JVC, and has some glitches. There are areas with stuck on and stuck off pixels, but overall it's the finest HDTV I've ever seen. It shows great promise for the next generations of D-ILA especially with black level. But it was the smoothness of the image, and the astonishing color quality that is really worthwhile. If you are in LA, I'd consider it worth your while to pay the $65 on-site exhibits-only fee to see this (of course there's plenty of other cool stuff as well.)


Note: I have no connection to JVC, Siggraph or any members of the consortium. I just think it's cool. I cross-posted this in the HDTV General Forum, but it seems to be pretty lightly visited. Thought the D-ILA fans might be interested.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by DaViD Boulet:
have your friend stand next to the screen with his HDTV image on it.


Can you see a difference?


Yes, there's room for improvement beyond the current HDTV standard.
Not if you stand 20' away http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif The eye's 'resolution' is measured in arc-seconds / line pair. IBM did an excellent study on this a while back. I'll see if I can fish my printed copy out. It relates arc-sec/line pair to contrast ratio for a rather large sample of people.


Once you get to that 'resolution', more isn't any better because you can't see it.


I'll be happy when I get to >40 degrees of subtended field of view at my eye's resolution at 1000:1 contrast ratio. When I find the paper, I'll post what that resolution is, assuming I have 'average' eyesight.


One easy trick is to take a ruler (preferably a white one with black lines) with 1/16 or 1/32 divisions, put it in front of your screen and display the brightest white possible on your projector. Sit in your viewing position and see which if you can distinguish the 1/16 or 1/32 lines. Work out what resolution that is for your screen size. You might be pretty surprised!


With a silver ruler and black lines (pretty poor contrast), I can just barely discern the 1/16" lines at 10.5' For my 80" wide screen, that's 80*16, or 1280. Since visual acuity is proportional to contrast ratio, I'm sure I can see more pixels at 10.5' than 1280, but I doubt I could see 1920 at 10.5'


Note that this says NOTHING about source material artifacts like scaling, which have multi-pixel effects.



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Quote:
I would think that at some point we'd want to ponder the meaning of such a high panel resolution. Could you ask someone there why we want to go that high resolution if HDTV is only 1920x1080? Would it serve a purpose to spread the signal out to fill more pixels? Would this not create scaling artifacts? Or would there be some form of reproduction/interpolation of pixel info?
Get an HDTV camera with 1080 res. Take a video of your friend. Now project that image onto a screen using the best possible video display equipment.


have your friend stand next to the screen with his HDTV image on it.


Can you see a difference?


Yes, there's room for improvement beyond the current HDTV standard.


-dave
 
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