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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was wondering if anyone else finds the inclusion of the "scoreboard" insert irratating...? It's in either the upper left or upper right hand corner of the screen during the play. An HD broadcast allows one to almost imagine they are viewing the game as if they were actually there - and if you were, this little insert wouldn't be there in your field of view.


When the play is running, the scoreboard is present, and I find my eye drawn to it - very irratating! I'd like to see them turn it off when the ball is snapped. Just wondering how others feel about this.
 

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I like having it there. It was better when there was a separate HD production because the scoreboard was able to be placed more in the corner of the screen rather than in the 4:3 section of the screen.
 

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No problem with scoreboard, but agree partially with Bill

Disagree partially since I still fail to see the reasons for why the scoreboard is in the "middle" on ABC especially.


ESPN - I can understand no Studio

ABC - No excuse because of below

CBS - Perfect :) - priceless to the side and they dualbroadcast. The graphic is added on as a layer and as I understand should be able to do two different based on sd or hd broadcast. Please feel free to prove me wrong and teach me how it really works.


This issue though is all over the place here and people do get annoyed by the size, placement of these things. I love CBS's placement, but why so big? same for the NCAA and very blue etc....
 

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I like it myself, but would prefer it to the side as well.


Another thing I've noticed on the FOX pregame stuff. They have that update thing coming in from the left side on a slant. On the HD broadcast you can see more of what teams are queued up.
 

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I noticed this from the very beginning, i hate seeing it in the middle, wish they would move it off to the corner.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yes, if it was inserted more into the corner, I'd be OK with it. But it is very much in the field of view right now to me, and a big distraction it is.
 

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I too think the scoreboard on ABC is very distracting, I wish it were off to the side where it normally would be.

However, I'm just happy to be able to watch the NFL in HDTV!!;)
 

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I don't mind it where it is, because then it shows you how much more you see with 16x9 compared to 4x3
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by alpha21
I don't mind it where it is, because then it shows you how much more you see with 16x9 compared to 4x3
which isn't all that much since they're framing for 4:3 :p
 

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I have a theory about this scoreboard issue and the finger-painting telestrator as well as the first down marker.


Have you ever noticed that the telestrator is always drawn inside the 4:3 (1.33:1) frame? The first down line is there now and the scoreboard still remains in the same position.


This has made me think over the past few months. "Why are they still using this scoreboard positioning even though it's a separate boradcast for hd?"


I have come to the conclusion (with my limited knowledge of TV production) that the broadcasters of both SD and HD are using some sort of technology that can bridge the gap for 16:9 viewers to get us these features but it comes with one small problem, all the graphics must stay in the 4:3 frame.


My other prediction is that until 1.78:1 makes a REALLY strong push in the market and the studios start framing their shots for 16:9 TV's that we won't be seeing this scoreboard bug move or telestrator grapics in the extended areas that are offered by widescreen TV's.


I posted here a while back about some questions I had with ESPN-HD's coverage of games and the scoreboard bug. Although I didn't get any answer on it, I'm sorta presuming that the answer to that is unknown and that it's gonna be a wait and see kinda thing. No knowledge of such a HUGE issue is typically not good, and we now see that CBS and ABC both are framing the graphics for football inside the 4:3 frame.


Just my $.02 cents. Let me know what you think.
 

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I don't mind it but would prefer the NBA type of scoreboard which would only come on inbetween plays.
 

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I think they need to bring in the use of FOX TRAX for NFL like they did in the NHL that way I can see where the Football is going and how fast it went there!!:D :D
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyB
I have a theory about this scoreboard issue and the finger-painting telestrator as well as the first down marker.


Have you ever noticed that the telestrator is always drawn inside the 4:3 (1.33:1) frame? The first down line is there now and the scoreboard still remains in the same position.


This has made me think over the past few months. "Why are they still using this scoreboard positioning even though it's a separate boradcast for hd?"


I have come to the conclusion (with my limited knowledge of TV production) that the broadcasters of both SD and HD are using some sort of technology that can bridge the gap for 16:9 viewers to get us these features but it comes with one small problem, all the graphics must stay in the 4:3 frame.


My other prediction is that until 1.78:1 makes a REALLY strong push in the market and the studios start framing their shots for 16:9 TV's that we won't be seeing this scoreboard bug move or telestrator grapics in the extended areas that are offered by widescreen TV's.


I posted here a while back about some questions I had with ESPN-HD's coverage of games and the scoreboard bug. Although I didn't get any answer on it, I'm sorta presuming that the answer to that is unknown and that it's gonna be a wait and see kinda thing. No knowledge of such a HUGE issue is typically not good, and we now see that CBS and ABC both are framing the graphics for football inside the 4:3 frame.


Just my $.02 cents. Let me know what you think.
It has to do with the truck sending both feeds at once. The SD feed is the same image as the HD feed with the sides chopped off. My prediction is once HD production is in full force at ESPN, they'll eventually start adding the bug separately so it will be in the right position on both feeds. Once HD becomes more dominant among viewers, possibly the SD feed will be letterboxed so HD can be fully used until ESPN can eventually dump its 4:3 feed altogether. By that point most TVs will be at least 16:9 (though not all HD) so a 4:3 feed will not be necessary. The HD feed can be down-rezed for those who only receive SD signals. By the time that happens, I'm sure there will be enough HD channels that you will be able to choose either SD or HD programming packages through most carriers, with no need for HD viewers to buy SD. Of course, satellite locals may still be only available in SD due to bandwidth issues unless you can receive them OTA. D* and E* will be hard-pressed to offer more than the top 10 markets or so in HD - even with future expansion.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyB
"Why are they still using this scoreboard positioning even though it's a separate broadcast for hd?"
Because it not a separate production.




Quote:
....and we now see that CBS and ABC both are framing the graphics for football inside the 4:3 frame.
Nope. Please note that CBS has always used scorecard graphics framed for 16:9, including the NFL, SEC college football, US Open Tennis, etc.



As to why ABC is not doing the same as CBS, I don't know. My guess is that is has all to do with the cost.


As for the other graphics, once again it all comes down to producing a program for the intended analog audience.
 

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So, what do you suppose will happen when (if?) the FCC declares the analog OTA phaseout?


At that point, everyone who wants to watch OTA will need to have either a Digital TV or a STB that outputs 480i. (see below for discussion of cable customers) At that point, presumably there will be a lot of old 4:3 tv's attached to STB's outputting 480i downconverted signals (no doubt using rf modulators - egads.) I'm sure the boxes will by default letterbox the HD content, but I'll bet a dollar that ALL the STB makers will have modes to "fill the screen", which will end up throwing away parts of the image.


As for cable, what do we suppose the cable companies are planning to do for their customers? I can't see them phasing out support for analog TV's anytime soon - as far as I know there is no FCC requirement for CATV companies to "go digital", or to offer HDTV STB's, etc. Will they letterbox the OTA onto a SD channel or will they 'fill the frame'? I bet a lot of them will feel pressure to "fill the frame". (I can just hear all the old folks calling up complaining about the 'black bars' on their 13" screens...)


So... if a lot of people are doing "full screen", will the networks still feel the need to 'protect' for these 'pseudo' 4:3 viewers?


Just wondering out loud...


Craig
 

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Comcast sportsnet's HD broadcasts of the Sixers have all their graphics in the 16x9 area (including when they ticker tape the other game scores). They use a dual broadcast like CBS, ABC, and ESPN. Plus their graphics actually look like HD instead of the fugly graphics that ESPN and ABC use (looks more like upconverted graphics).
 
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