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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm in a market for a new television, preferably a Plasma (42") over the typical LCD/LED, but I'm having a hard time finding one with 'Analog Audio OUT' (to AMP). I have an old harman/kardon receiver with no digital 'IN' whatsoever. As for TV, I can't seem to find one in that size or format -- except only for a few 32" LCD made by Philips. I remembered looking at the Panasonic G10 Plasma Series and it had S-Video IN and Analog OUT, but they've omitted these features on their newer lines. I found some NOS G-series but the sellers wanted in excess of $900 for it. Such a shame why did they opt out on these features? Any recommendations on a specific make or is there a converter out there that can be used without causing distortions?
 

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get an D/A converter
 

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I'm in the same boat with a shiny new Panasonic plasma, and a 20 year old JVC receiver. For the time being, until I can upgrade my receiver, I've been using a Digital > Analog adapter from Monoprice:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2


The only complaint I have with it is that when I turn the TV off, it causes the receiver to emit a high pitched (but low volume) whine. Good reminder to turn the receiver off though, something I never used to do
It's an issue with the converter, not the TV - happens even if I unplug the TOSLink optical cable from the TV. Don't forget to pick up a TOSlink cable if you don't already have one. I think the box also supports Coax digital as well, and you can use plain old RCA coax for that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Instead of using a converter and since it's going to mix down to stereo anyway, has anyone tried this route?

For example; I was mapping this for the past few days before the big boy arrives:


1st Unit) BD/DVD Player to TV IN via HDMI for regular sound, and at the same time, route its Analog Audio OUT directly to Amplifier's IN (DVD) if needed when watching movies.


2nd unit) DVD Recorder to TV IN via Component Video/Sound, route the extra Audio OUT directly to Amplifier's IN (AUX).


All this without touching the digital OUT (from TV) because it doesn't make a difference anyway since it's going to be STEREO. This is my solution for now until I get that new Yamaha receiver.


travisd,

since you have an older JVC, why not try it out w/o the converter and see if it works, beats having that high-pitched sound every time you shut the tv off.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 80sGuy /forum/post/19643845


travisd,

since you have an older JVC, why not try it out w/o the converter and see if it works, beats having that high-pitched sound every time you shut the tv off.

At this point, all I have is a 2.0 audio anyway, so I'm not missing anything as far as audio channels. In my case, I don't want to have to use a second remote (for the receiver) to switch inputs -- right now I can use the Tivo remote to switch TV inputs (including audio) which is simpler, and has a higher WAF.


Sometime next year this will all be remediated with the replacement of the JVC with a modern HDMI-switching AV Receiver
(Along with the addition of surround speakers). For $25, the converter was a decent interim solution. The whine is only there if the TV is off, so unless I want to leave the receiver on and using power, turning it off too solves that issue.


I actually do have separate audio from the Tivo routed there to enable using Pandora without having to keep the Plasma on.


--travis
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
After weeks of tackling the issue of finding a T.V. with Analog Audio Output, I found that the only brand that still incorporate Analog OUT is SONY. At least most (or all) of the EX series I've looked at comes with either an Analog Variable/Fixed or Fixed OUT. While this is good...but...I have two major problems:


1.) I can't find a SONY PLASMA, do they even make one?

2.) Sony LCD 42" w/ internet runs in excess of $999 and I'm not into the hype of paying for LCD/LED technology, let alone paying more just because it's a Sony.
But I do give them credit for retaining common sense.


The last two Plasmas that had Analog Out were the Panasonic TC-P42G10 (replaced by TC-P42G25) and Samsung PN42B450 (replaced by PN42C450).

While the Panasonic is 1080P, it also includes 2 S-Video IN with Viera Cast (internet), but the Samsung is more of a stripped down version at only 720P. I almost bought the Panasonic G10 when Amazon had one listed as USED from their Warehouse. I didn't initiate the purchase due to a number of reviewers stating that there were major issues with screen problems from their 2009 lineup. As we speak, people are having problems now (after the 6-12 months window time frame) with the 'deep blacks' fading into gray and there is supposedly a class-action suit against Panasonic. All 2010 lineups are claimed to be remedied of the problem.


After all this rambling I'm still left out without a T.V., help!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 80sGuy /forum/post/19662928


After weeks of tackling the issue of finding a T.V. with Analog Audio Output, I found that the only brand that still incorporate Analog OUT is SONY. At least most (or all) of the EX series I've looked at comes with either an Analog Variable/Fixed or Fixed OUT. While this is good...but...I have two major problems:


1.) I can't find a SONY PLASMA, do they even make one?

No, not any more. And be glad they don't because when they did, it used a crappy Samsung panel, had very poor black levels compared to the Hitachis and Pioneers and Panasonics, it was obscenely expensive, had a high failure rate, and when they did fail Sony didn't have replacement parts available.



Quote:
2.) Sony LCD 42" w/ internet runs in excess of $999 and I'm not into the hype of paying for LCD/LED technology, let alone paying more just because it's a Sony.
But I do give them credit for retaining common sense.

What common sense? Spending more money by retaining crappy 2-channel stereo analog audio out that only a few percent of the population would use? An old technology that has already been dropped on almost all other brands and models of TV? And for those few percent that would use it, they can simply get an adapter or just run audio from their cable box or DVD player directly to the AVR instead of routing it through the TV where it gets downconverted to 2 channel stereo.


Sony hasn't used common sense for many many years.

Quote:
I almost bought the Panasonic G10 when Amazon had one listed as USED from their Warehouse. I didn't initiate the purchase due to a number of reviewers stating that there were major issues with screen problems from their 2009 lineup. As we speak, people are having problems now (after the 6-12 months window time frame) with the 'deep blacks' fading into gray

They don't fade into gray, the black levels are still plenty black just not as inky deep as when the TV was new. I have a G10 which is the most affected model and it's blacks are nowhere near what i would call gray. They're still way better than my older PZ700U and PX50U, and only surpassed by the current 2010 models. I only see the issue about 2% of the time during some scenes on some dark movies. The rest of the time the black levels are very good and i'm still thoroughly enjoying the TV almost two years later.


Quote:
and there is supposedly a class-action suit against Panasonic.

Which is going nowhere and really means nothing. The cynic in me says Panasonic had this "lawsuit" initiated against themselves so they won't have to make any official statements about the issue since it's in litigation. The law firm that brought this lawsuit is in the same state as Panasonic's U.S. headquarters. And none of us 2009 owners have been contacted by this law firm, and we have not received our $5. settlement checks yet



Quote:
All 2010 lineups are claimed to be remedied of the problem.

Incorrect. The 2010 models' black levels will still rise, but this year they start out at lower/better levels than 2009 models, and the rise will be more gradual and over a longer period of time than it did last year. And when the black levels finally stabilize, they'll still be roughly the same as the other brands.


And the 2010 models have another different issue called floating blacks which some people can see when watching dark content. The 2009 models did not have this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters /forum/post/19663477


.....What common sense? Spending more money by retaining crappy 2-channel stereo analog audio out that only a few percent of the population would use? An old technology that has already been dropped on almost all other brands and models of TV? And for those few percent that would use it, they can simply get an adapter or just run audio from their cable box or DVD player directly to the AVR instead of routing it through the TV where it gets downconverted to 2 channel stereo.


Sony hasn't used common sense for many many years.....

Common sense (at least) they haven't forgotten and acknowledged the fact that guys like us still uses analog audio, and no, I wouldn't pay more just for that sole purpose. Call me a purist, but I'm just not much into 'external' converter boxes. Overall, I just think that Sony is overpriced in everything they put out, it doesn't matter if they incorporate more or less features.


Also, with the right equipment and quality cables, I wouldn't call 2-channel stereo sound 'crappy', the only thing lacking would be surround-sound and of course, until I invest in a Yamaha Home Theater Receiver anytime soon otherwise my only option would be 'analog'; but then again I have ANOTHER problem...I could not find one that's priced under $500 with a 'Phono' Input...ha ha ha yes, I still listen to Vinyl records, talk about living in the 80's! My Harman/Kardon AVR has an array of Analog-Surround Inputs which I would be routing from an Oppo BD-93 soon, and believe me, the Harman sounds AMAZING!!!


Good to know that your G10 isn't as badly affected as I'd thought to be, I just might be considering locating one otherwise -- a new Home Theater Receiver and the new 42" G25 series Plasma....ouch!!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by travisd /forum/post/19642244


I'm in the same boat with a shiny new Panasonic plasma, and a 20 year old JVC receiver. For the time being, until I can upgrade my receiver, I've been using a Digital > Analog adapter from Monoprice:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2


The only complaint I have with it is that when I turn the TV off, it causes the receiver to emit a high pitched (but low volume) whine. Good reminder to turn the receiver off though, something I never used to do
It's an issue with the converter, not the TV - happens even if I unplug the TOSLink optical cable from the TV. Don't forget to pick up a TOSlink cable if you don't already have one. I think the box also supports Coax digital as well, and you can use plain old RCA coax for that.

I second this. I use this converter with my analog set up and it works just fine. I fail to see how someone can let the lack of an analog out prevent them from buying an HDTV.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The lack of an Analog Audio Output would not hinder my purchase of an HDTV but instead choosing an LCD over a Plasma. Unfortunately there's very little choice out there these days for my demand(s). I can either spend more for a Sony LCD/LED (completely against my intent for a Plasma) or buy a D/A audio converter for the time being to coincide with my current receiver. The very last option would be an older G-series Panasonic.

So far, Sony is the only answer to my solution.


As I mentioned before, most HDTV manufacturers these days lacked much common sense when it comes to incorporating certain features. Most of them add things we don't need and omitted the ones that we do. A good example would be the I/O; why on earth would they incorporate not one but TWO Composite Video IN??? Why not drop one and at least keep one S-Video? My biggest question is: who the hell uses Composite IN these days? I haven't used it since the days of Super VHS (circa late 80s-90s) and one of my older camcorders utilizes the S-Video for viewing through a 2002 Panasonic tube (Video 3 IN). Guess I can kiss that 'ol camcorder goodbye with the newer TVs then, or buy MORE converters? On a positive note, I also have a newer digital camcorder.

I could not think of a person today that doesn't use either the Component or HDMI connections for DVD or Blu-Ray playback, so why are they still including the Yellow, Red and White inputs -- and why TWO? For sure I'll be seeing a lot of Composite A/V IN from the back of people's TVs collecting dusts.


Another input they took out was the 'Digital IN'. While HDMI is considered best and convenient but what's the point when your sound is crippled down to analog 2-Channel Stereo. This is not a big deal since you probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference from your tiny TV speakers anyway. Then of course, you can probably route the Digital Out from your DVD or BD player to a Home Theater Receiver. Again, last but not least -- the dreaded Analog OUT (to Amp), the chances of people using it are by far much greater compared to the two Analog Composite IN. Why omit that?
 

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So I got the aforementioned TosLink adapter from Monoprice to hook up to my Sennheiser RS 130 (2009 BF deal) wireless headphones and I am getting no signal when watching OTA broadcast TV. Seems to work fine for the PCH A-110 (HDMI on Input 1). Any Ideas???


The 100 hour calibration makes all the difference in the world for the P42S2.
 

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I use composite video in even to this day since my original Xbox uses it, as does my PlayStation 2. Also, although I do not own one myself, composite video in is used for the Nintendo Wii. So it does have relevance.


Analog audio out is also important to me, but I have also noticed very few TV's offer it these days. But this thread has (thankfully) opened my eyes to other possibilities.


As for Sony, I had a LOT of problems with their electronics failing (or being defective out of the box) between the years of 1987 to about 1994. For a long time after that, I never touched their products. Today I own a PlayStation 2 and 3, as well as a Sony CMT-EH10 bookshelf stereo, none of which have given me any difficulties thus far.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
The most feasible way to overcome Analog Audio OUT from these newer (plasma) TVs is to get a Sound Bar using HDMI ARC and retaining your current receiver -- that is IF your receiver is worth keeping. My harman/kardon is worth every hundred because they don't built them the way they used to anymore. No digital to analog converter for me that's for sure.
 

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I may have a audio challenge for you guys!


I would like to use a LG Plasma in my 2-channel audio room. I watch OTA Broadcasts and have a good roof-top antenna etc. Reception and picture quality is great!! No cable or satellite box.


As noted above, the current LG units omit analog audio output jacks and they appear to have also omitted a menu option to select PCM or 5.1 for the optical digital output. I believe the LG Unit's optical output defaults to 5.1 when tuning into OTA Broadcasts, which is the OTA Broadcast standard.


Problem is my 2-channel audio DAC cannot decode a 5.1 digital output.


When using a HDMI input from a DVD/Blu-ray Player, the LG Plasma Unit's optical digital output appears to default to PCM, which works great with my

2-channel audio DAC. This automatic default to PCM with a HDMI sourced input must be due to some type of digital copyright regulations.


Anyone have an idea how to force the LG units to output PCM at the optical digital jack when watching OTA Broadcasts?


I wonder why LG would eliminate this basic PCM or 5.1 selection in the audio menu when other other units from Sony/Samsung/Toshiba all appear to include this option.


My only solution maybe to look into another manufacture.


Appreciate any thoughts!

Steve
 

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I currently use a CRT and it is this issue that has me holding back on a G25 Panasonic plasma in addition to other operational/relaibility concerns. It is a huge oversight to not have analog out or a headphone jack for those that use headphones for OTA TV viewing, with these new TV's you are SOOL if that is what you want to do, you have to get additional DA conversion hardware of dubious quality http://www.amazon.com/Gefen-GTV-DD-2.../dp/B0021QBIBQ . Looks like this thing fails to lock a signal reliably.

PLENTY of people do not have or use an AV receiver, in fact of the 5 people I know with big screen TV's, none of them have an AV receiver. If the manufacturers need to convert to analog for the TV speakers can it be so hard to have stereo analog out too? It is a much bigger pain for the user to deal with than it would be for them to continue to install one. Only the Samsung 8000 PN50 has a headphone out, but that is a bigger screen size than I can accomodate. To Tedeman, were you able to get OTA audio on your headphones? If I cant get decent OTA TV audio via headphones I'll keep my WEGA CRT for now as it works well in my application.
 

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No analog audio out is also a big concern for me as well. I understand technology changes and so forth, but my current receiver is fine, and I'm happy with a quality two speaker setup. While looking at the 2010/2011 Plasmas, I also noticed S-video is no longer included. Very disappointing when you have legacy devices that greatly benefit from the video quality differences from composite to s-video. I sure hope they don't drop composite anytime soon; otherwise, us folks with older electronics and gaming machines will be living off converters for good.
 
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