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Why aren't more people using this material as an alternative to the hi-power? When comparing the draper m2500 to the da-lite material it was just as bright, with a much better viewing cone. In addition, when purchasing the fabric alone it's less then half the cost of the hi-power. Am I missing something?
 

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There doesn't seem to be much about the draper screens as a whole. There is a thread for it though when I used the search. I was looking into the 2500 also, the thing which may have went against it was when it first came out there was a "streaking" problem with the coating they put on it to produce the gain. That apparently has been fixed now but it may be too late for much of an adoption. What's the cliche? Never a second chance for a first impression...seems to be true most of the time.
 

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The M2500 was a big seller when crt projectors were hot and there was a need for high gain. It is angular reflective, which also made it great for projectors hung on the ceiling. Then the Dailite Highpower came along and since a lot of people had their projectors on the floor, it was a better choice since it was retroreflective (back to the source). The M2500 also was prone to hotspotting and horizontal streaks where the coating was not even.


That said, I had a 4:3 120" Highpower, but when I got my first DLP projector (Benq 8700), I hung it from the ceiling and the Highpower didn't work well. I also wanted a larger 16:9 screen, so I opted for the Cineperm M2500 in 16:9 with a 128" diagonal. For that size, the high gain and angular reflectivity was perfect for the Benq--but there was still some hot spotting.


I recently took down the Benq and replaced it with an Optoma HD32 (HD70 clone). Since it is mounted about 2.5 feet farther back than the Benq, the hotspotting is virtually gone. The streaking, now that's a different story. Because the Optoma is much brighter than the Benq, some minor streaks are very noticeable on bright white scenes--only in one spot about 1 foot by 2 feet, though. To me it's a fair trade off to get a screen of this size and brightness (and relatively low cost). Like most things to us hometheater types, our less informed friends and relatives don't notice the streaks or care...



That's my experience and I would do it again. The M2500 also makes colors pop and easier to achieve 6500k. The Highpower gave the image a creamy look and was hard to calibrate. That's my experience and others might argue with me, but hey...


If you have any other questions about this screen, I would be happy to answer as best I can.


Bob
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 /forum/post/13088620



If you have any other questions about this screen, I would be happy to answer as best I can.


Bob

Hi Bob,


The M2500 gain curve has my curiosity at the moment... and since you offered...



Is this material white or silver? It's hard to tell from their website. I'm wondering if it will help lower the black floor in addition to providing the gain. the flat region at the top of their posted gain curve is very interesting.


Thanks

Kevin
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKevinK /forum/post/13092360


Hi Bob,


The M2500 gain curve has my curiosity at the moment... and since you offered...



Is this material white or silver? It's hard to tell from their website. I'm wondering if it will help lower the black floor in addition to providing the gain. the flat region at the top of their posted gain curve is very interesting.


Thanks

Kevin

It is vinyl with a silvery white coating and needs to be mounted on a stretched frame. The gain curve is relatively flat at 2.0, 20% off axis and I confirm that. With the HD32 (HD70) mounted about 17 feet from the screen, I get an evenly lighted screen and the even gain roll off allows for a comfortable 12 foot wide seating area. If you call Draper and ask about the screen, they will not recommend it for home theater because they are aware of the slight streaking problem. They do recommend the screen for high ambient light conditions, though. As far as contrast goes, black has a nice black look, but the high gain makes the white/black difference a little overpowering, so you have to compensate with brightness and contrast controls to avoid eye strain. That said, colors really pop on this screen. Oh, and the screen does have some sparkly affect too, especially on the bright-white scenes. If you are very picky about having a totally pristine image, then I think a 1.3 gain screen might be more suitable. If you want to be able to use the projector in a lighted room, then the M2500 is a great. It also allows control over brightness as the lamp becomes less bright over time. And my number one reason for getting it was that it allows for a very large screen size without compromising brightness.


Bob
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 /forum/post/13097992


It is vinyl with a silvery white coating and needs to be mounted on a stretched frame. The gain curve is relatively flat at 2.0, 20% off axis and I confirm that. With the HD32 (HD70) mounted about 17 feet from the screen, I get an evenly lighted screen and the even gain roll off allows for a comfortable 12 foot wide seating area. If you call Draper and ask about the screen, they will not recommend it for home theater because they are aware of the slight streaking problem. They do recommend the screen for high ambient light conditions, though. As far as contrast goes, black has a nice black look, but the high gain makes the white/black difference a little overpowering, so you have to compensate with brightness and contrast controls to avoid eye strain. That said, colors really pop on this screen. Oh, and the screen does have some sparkly affect too, especially on the bright-white scenes. If you are very picky about having a totally pristine image, then I think a 1.3 gain screen might be more suitable. If you want to be able to use the projector in a lighted room, then the M2500 is a great. It also allows control over brightness as the lamp becomes less bright over time. And my number one reason for getting it was that it allows for a very large screen size without compromising brightness.


Bob

So the streaking is an ongoing problem? I noted the discussion about it in some older threads, but wondered if the issue was resolved over time. My current screen is 120" 2.35:1 (110 wide). I guess I figure that since my projector has the iris I might be able to take advantage of the gain to preserve the bright material while closing down the iris to lower the black. I guess we'll see if they respond to my query.


Thanks

Kevin
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKevinK /forum/post/13099668


So the streaking is an ongoing problem? I noted the discussion about it in some older threads, but wondered if the issue was resolved over time.

Thanks

Kevin

My screen is a couple of years old now, so they may have improved it some. The Dailite Highpower does not have the problem, does not need to be stretched, but is a retro-reflective screen better for table-top projectors. When I was looking I found their email response wanting. You do better to call them.


Bob
 

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OH Yah, just another thought. I think the M2500 is one of the select few angular reflective high-gain screen available besides the expensive Vutec. All others are retroreflective (light projects back to the source) beaded screens such as Dailite Highpower and the Elunevision high-gain screens (NOTE: if is says beaded, it's retroreflective--if it's coated or aluminized, it's angular). So it's about the only lower cost alternative to a ceiling mounted large screen theater experience. FWIW, IMHO Bob
 

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I've had my 106" M2500 up for two years, I've also owned a Highpower and a Graywolf. It's true that it's just about the only reasonably priced angular reflective screen out there. It has a wonderful viewing cone and great brightness (though not on a par when inside the cone of a Highpower).

I had it previously with a NEC 6pg+ and the streaks were not very visible due to the low brightness of the CRT, but now with my Mitsu HD1500U, I finally got around to doing the Draper recommended Simple Green (or Armour All) cleaning treatment.


After two treatments it is improved but there still are a few visible streaks, so as Draper recommends, I will rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat...


My next screen (120") might be an Elite Powergain...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Clark /forum/post/13152713


I got around to doing the Draper recommended Simple Green (or Armour All) cleaning treatment.


After two treatments it is improved but there still are a few visible streaks, so as Draper recommends, I will rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat...


My next screen (120") might be an Elite Powergain...


Draper specifically says in their cleaning instructions for the M2500 not to use detergent or Armour All. Can you direct me to the instructions you have. Would be interesting to see if it works (or are you setting us up
).


Bob
 

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Discussion Starter #11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Clark /forum/post/13152713


My next screen (120") might be an Elite Powergain...

I would absolutely stay away from the powergain material from elite. I purchased an elite fixed frame screen for my brother in law with the powergain material and it's plain horrible. First there is no way that it comes close to it's rated gain, much dimmer. Second, the screen texture is atrocious, even and the recommended viewing distance. My brother in law is using an infocus sp7210(very bright projector) in a dedicated home theater room.


I on the other hand have the Mitsubishi hc3100 paired with a 120" hccv rated at 1.1 gain. His setup is slightly brighter but not as much as you would expect with the screen and projector he's using. I'm looking for a little more punch, hence my interest in this material.


I've tried numerous samples of positive gain screens and came away most impressed by the draper m2500. I did read about the previous issue with streaks, but I thought the issue was resolved...possibly not?


If I decide to purchase the M2500 I'll be sure to update you all with my impressions of the screen.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 /forum/post/13155887


Draper specifically says in their cleaning instructions for the M2500 not to use detergent or Armour All. Can you direct me to the instructions you have. Would be interesting to see if it works (or are you setting us up
).


Bob

I've done it twice with no deleterious effects. Have to use the mix from their directions however.


Here ya go....

Quote:
Cleaning Procedure for Removal of Plasticizer from Vinyl Screen Material




These cleaning instructions are for problems experienced with the Tab Tension fabrics- M1300, M2500 and HiDef Grey. The fabric would be described as having shiny horizontal lines in succession down the screen and/or the fabric appears to be sticking to itself.


These problems are due to plasticizer migration, the same condition which causes a film to form on the inside of the windshield of a new car. Flexible projection screen surfaces contain a high percentage of plasticizer. Plasticizer migration is movement of some of the plasticizer to the surface of the material, which can occur when the screen is exposed to excessive heat or is stored for long periods of time before being installed and/or used.


Use this procedure only when necessary to remove plasticizer build-up that causes the surface to appear hazy and/or streaked, or when the surface becomes tacky. Excessive cleaning may accelerate the migration of plasticizers, causing the surface to become brittle and crack or tear.


Supplies:


White (unprinted) Kleenex Brand Viva Towels – soft, absorbent, lint-free paper towels

50/50 Mix of Simple Green All- Purpose Cleaner and water (preferred)

or Armor All Multi-Purpose Auto Cleaner (alternate)

Water (only) in a pump-type spray bottle


1) Lower the screen surface.


2) Working from top to bottom, spray a generous amount of the 50/50 mixture of Simple Green All-Purpose Cleaner and water or Armor All Multi-Purpose Auto Cleaner directly onto the surface.


3) Allow the cleaner to penetrate briefly, but do not allow it to dry.


4) Use several Viva towels to gently wipe the cleaner and plasticizer from the surface.


DO NOT push too hard on the fabric, as excessive pressure will stretch the material and

diminish the flatness of the surface.


5) Spray a generous amount of water directly onto the surface.


6) Use several Viva towels to gently wipe the entire surface until dry.


7) Repeat steps 2 though 6 until both sides of the surface have been cleaned.


8) Repeat if necessary to remove heavy amounts of plasticizer.


9) Allow the surface to completely dry before operating the screen.


Kleenex and Viva are registered trademarks of the Kimberly-Clark Corporation


Armor All is a registered trademark of the Armor All Products Corporation.


Simple Green is a registered trademark of Sunshine Makers, Inc.


Plasticizer Cleaning - 8/2/2005

I used Simple Green but as I said, it's not cured yet...
 

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Really, it doesn't seem to harm the fabric at all (Diluted Simple Green).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrubsr1 /forum/post/13159326


I would absolutely stay away from the powergain material from elite. I purchased an elite fixed frame screen for my brother in law with the powergain material and it's plain horrible. First there is no way that it comes close to it's rated gain, much dimmer. Second, the screen texture is atrocious, even and the recommended viewing distance. My brother in law is using an infocus sp7210(very bright projector) in a dedicated home theater room.


I on the other hand have the Mitsubishi hc3100 paired with a 120" hccv rated at 1.1 gain. His setup is slightly brighter but not as much as you would expect with the screen and projector he's using. I'm looking for a little more punch, hence my interest in this material.


I've tried numerous samples of positive gain screens and came away most impressed by the draper m2500. I did read about the previous issue with streaks, but I thought the issue was resolved...possibly not?


If I decide to purchase the M2500 I'll be sure to update you all with my impressions of the screen.

Thanks for the notes on the Powergain. I have a small sample but you cannot tell texture from that. When I go 120" I'll probably go back to Highpower...
 

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The Draper M2500 was popular some years back. As a general business decision we stopped recommending it for most setups as the QC quite frankly was poor on it. There were times we went through 3 and 4 replacements for a single customer.
 

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I bought mine through you Jason. It's still a fine fabric, but I can see why it would have sample to sample problems..
 

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That's pretty cool there seems to be a solution for the streaks without any detrimental effects. Thanks for that Robert.
 

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Just keep in mind it has not yet rid my screen of marks...
 
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