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Well it's really always said that in one way or another since the rollout of the 4K? And that is a typical slahdot argument. "Under that agreement, SonicBlue claims the right to destroy your device when you connect for updates". I suppose they can always just get any TiVo if they really want to witness the meaning of that in full action? :rolleyes:


It's this excellent legal footwork by SB that brings us this great product in the first place. :cool:
 

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In fact, the SwapDV program doesn't even remotely count as 'hacking' the 4k, since they're not using their code, and they don't modify the unit.


They're simply using a PC program. If that program just 'happens' to understand data streamed from the 4Ks, and just 'happens' to stream data in a way that the 4ks understand... :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I believe this may be true but if they start encrypting any portion of the data coming from the Replay and someone "cracks" the encryption then one would be in violation of the DMCA.


I think it would be naive to think that the pressure the industry forces that are suing SonicBlue have no effect on their business decisions.

Betting on the future I would tend to believe that SB will be forced to make their machines much less "hackable" and open.
 

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The only part of it they will care about is the "service" but once you've paid why would they care?


Unlike TiVo who has a host of other interests to serve such as Jack Valenti or Mickey-I'll-Sue-Your-Butt-Mouse and of course "wiring our eyelids open and strapping us to the chair" to make sure we don't overlook the partner spam? :rolleyes:
 

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Just looks like an attempt to cover their own asses. They haven't done anything to screw us over yet.


It does kind of bother me, but I'm too addicted to Replay to give it up now.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by KenL
The only part of it they will care about is the "service" but once you've paid why would they care?


Unlike TiVo who has a host of other interests to serve such as Jack Valenti or Mickey-I'll-Sue-Your-Butt-Mouse and of course "wiring our eyelids open and strapping us to the chair" to make sure we don't overlook the partner spam? :rolleyes:
You mean like this? :)

http://datacore.sciflicks.com/a_cloc...e_large_09.jpg
 

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Jeez. A picture of KenL watching TV!


(yeah, yeah, I know.)
 

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I haven't read the slashdot article yet...but my guess is there's nothing there I didn't already know.


The 4500 service agreement forbids you from making changes to the hardware or software on the unit. the 4.3 software has some new heavy-duty public-key signature code to prevent you from doing so; it may well be the end of some kinds of hacks -- my httpfs hack, the couglib hack to see the terelogic error messages, etc.


There's also at least two encryption algorithms; one is the simple one the 4000s used for rddns, which is now also used (slightly modified) to make some kinds of http requests. There's also blowfish code, and I haven't figured out what uses it -- there may well be an end to lots of kinds of hacks, without finding both blowfish and elgemal private keys, which isn't something likely to happen any time soon.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by jtl
-- my httpfs hack, the couglib hack to see the terelogic error messages, etc.


-- there may well be an end to lots of kinds of hacks, without finding both blowfish and elgemal private keys, which isn't something likely to happen any time soon.
By end to hacks do you mean the ability for me to extract shows from replay to my PC to burn to DVDR? That would be rather unfortunate since that was one of my main reasons for buying the 4K albeit not an advertised, condoned feature, but one I use regularly nonetheless.


Calvin
 

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I don't think they could have done anything to local streaming we won't be able to deal with -- by definition, the units have to be able to handle both sides of that, so for any encryption that's done, we'll have both the encrypt and decrypt keys.


It's things where we only have half the functionality -- checking binary signatures, but not creating them; reading what the RNS servers send, but not using the same key to send to them; encrypting what's sent to the RNS servers, but not being able to decrypt it -- that I think we may be dead in the water.
 

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And, jtl, what about upgrading series 4500 40 hour units to 320 hour units? Do you think that flexibility is in danger too?
 

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I haven't seen anything to make me think they've hobbled that, but in the sense that they *could* have, and they have some incentive to (4532, anyone?), there's some danger, yeah.


Who wants to be a guinea pig?


(pigs are pigs)
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by jtl
...Who wants to be a guinea pig?


(pigs are pigs)
Let's see: toots or KenL? Well, we know toots won't do any hacks herself (and I'm confident that she's not a pig), so I guess that leaves KenL. Thanks, KenL. We do appreciate your willingness to take a bullit for us. Then again, we haven't heard from lizard_boy for a while.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by asinshesq



Let's see: toots or KenL? Well, we know toots won't do any hacks herself (and I'm confident that she's not a pig), so I guess that leaves KenL.
Yah, well, a little dieting wouldn't hurt me too much.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by calvin940



By end to hacks do you mean the ability for me to extract shows from replay to my PC to burn to DVDR? That would be rather unfortunate since that was one of my main reasons for buying the 4K albeit not an advertised, condoned feature, but one I use regularly nonetheless.


Calvin
That would be very interesting. If Sonic Blue actively prevents people from doing video extraction, will it hurt their high-end status? Series II TiVo receivers with the 3.0 software will support USB ethernet, making it easy to use the current video extraction software for them. I wonder how this will affect sales. TiVo just announced their sales figures for the quarter. At 42,000 new subscribers (taking them to over 422,000 subscribers), they have sold more than RePlayTV and UltimateTV combined. Has Sonic Blue ever officially released sales figures?
 

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Series II Tivos have the same kinds of kernel & file integrety checks that the 4500 has; you can't run "the current video extraction software" on them -- you can't run anything on them except what Tivo ships.
 
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