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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently built two Fusion-6 Vibe speakers to extend my diy setup. I had great success building an SI18/iNuke configuration last fall, but my current project is not going as well. In short, The speakers sound like a giant midrange driver with muffled lows and highs.
 
I'm expecting to hear significant mid-bass producing sounds and high-hat sizzles from vocalists. The drivers have great reviews. Other owners testify they are able to produce vibrant and relatively full range sounds. No dance parties here. Michael Jackson sounds dull. :(
 
My AVR setup works great. For reference, I'm using a Yamaha RVX661 along with a set of Polk TSI200s. They play loud, have crisp highs and good mid-low end bass. For objective listening tests, I'm able to quickly change audio inputs between the vibes and the TSI200s using the AVR built-in a/b channels . I double checked by wiring and cross-over polarity and also unplugged the TSI200s while active to reuse the same output wiring and rule out any signal bias. All to no avail.
 
Maybe I expecting too much from this particular diy speaker? I can overlook some of bass output provided by the Polks two twin 5.25' woofers ported. But that doesn't explain the deficiency on the high-end. I keep reading about efficient this compression driver is. :)
 
I don't want to sound negative or unthankful, but the vibes sound no better than my Bose Acoustimass 7 (5.2). This can't surely be the case. Based on my reasoning, I must have defective speakers, crossover components or a crossover design that no longer applies to this particular speaker configuration. As the site says, the crossover component layout is relatively clean and straightforward. I was able to memorize the layout, in short order well before assembly. I also double checked the schema after soldering.

I certainly want to confirm the crossover design with another user. I emailed Erich for support, but not sure when he will respond. Due to copyright, I cannot publicly post or share it.
 

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You likely have something assembled wrong in the crossover. Did you invert the polarity on the tweeter like the schematic shows? 99% of the time someone is disappointed with their speaker it turns out to be a crossover assembly error or a wiring error. Double check to be sure it's all wired up properly.

Can you take a photo of the crossover and send it to me or the designer? If it doesn't show all the part values, you can post it here and someone can help you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
See crossover photo attached. The schema layout provided shows two components for each speaker. The first components for each driver are connected in series to the second components which connect to ground. Yes, the ground is connected to the positive side of the compression driver.
 

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Here is how I wired mine up.


I just finished mine this past weekend. All sounds pretty good to me. I tested with an old solid state pioneer sx650 and they still sounded pretty good. Decent bass and highs were good. Didn't do a lot of listening of but the quick testing I did was nice. I will be using these as surround speakers as I have the fusion 12 tempest up front. I hooked them up last night as surrounds and they seemed to do fine. Not too much action going on it with what I was watching, so I did some multichannel music listening and they did well.
 

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Dollars to donuts that at least some of those joints are marginal.

My recommendation would be to use some desoldering braid to undo/clean everything off, then redo the joints making sure to create a solid mechanical connection (i.e. wrap those leads around one another tightly, don't be shy) prior to applying the solder. Then, only apply enough solder to join the pieces. No need for big globs. Solder should be shiny when properly applied, and not relied upon to create an electrical connection.
 

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As pgwalsh has mentioned, a top-down photo ( of the network ) would be very helpful .

As it is, it appears that your input wires are directly connected to your output leads ( via those large globs of solder / far left & far right ) . If connected, you get no effective filtering action from your network .

As moxxy*mig pointed out, you should redo all your solder connections following his directions ( your approach is truly abysmal ) .

Vanity shot ( #4 ) looks nice & promising . :p

:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
You should get the proper sized quick disconnect for the woofer, its going to fall off eventually. Hard to see whats going on with the crossover but do you have 3 terminal plates?
Good catch. Strange to me, one terminal was much narrower than the other and wasn't covered inside a kit purchased from parts-express. I did swing by my local Radio Shack only to find out they have recently closed. Any idea which size these are?

No, I used two plates totaling four posts. Left side (top) is Positive input, (bottom) is high freq positive. Right side plate (top) is low freq positive, (bottom) is ground with three wires.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
As pgwalsh has mentioned, a top-down photo ( of the network ) would be very helpful .

As it is, it appears that your input wires are directly connected to your output leads ( via those large globs of solder / far left & far right ) . If connected, you get no effective filtering action from your network .

As moxxy*mig pointed out, you should redo all your solder connections following his directions ( your approach is truly abysmal ) .

Vanity shot ( #4 ) looks nice & promising . :p

:)
Hi EarlK, thanks for being frank and honest. Yes, my soldering skills need work. Tinting strands is no problem for me. Never soldered solid wire before and motivated to redo connections. I felt somewhat guilty wasting the solder and posting my fine work. :) FWIW, continuity paths are clear. I also used caution to ensure the posts or circuit paths aren't shorting out.

Both speakers exhibit same sound characteristics.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Here is how I wired mine up.


I just finished mine this past weekend. All sounds pretty good to me. I tested with an old solid state pioneer sx650 and they still sounded pretty good. Decent bass and highs were good. Didn't do a lot of listening of but the quick testing I did was nice. I will be using these as surround speakers as I have the fusion 12 tempest up front. I hooked them up last night as surrounds and they seemed to do fine. Not too much action going on it with what I was watching, so I did some multichannel music listening and they did well.
Hi Fuj32,

Thanks for replying. Your feedback is encouraging and helpful. Will look at the layout and compare shortly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
How about a top down look like Fuj32?
Hi Pgwalsh,

I can try, but there's not much room for smartphone camera shot. I jinxed myself by gluing the x-over backing to the cabinet and seal up the box before testing. I should be able to cut in between the backer board and mdf and pull it out if i need to.
 

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Hi Pgwalsh,

I can try, but there's not much room for smartphone camera shot. I jinxed myself by gluing the x-over backing to the cabinet and seal up the box before testing. I should be able to cut in between the backer board and mdf and pull it out if i need to.
All you can do is try. I usually use a couple small screws to seat mine. Because my crossover wires tend to go underneath the board, I have a couple small pieces to elevate it and then it's screwing into the bottom or side of the cabinet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Dollars to donuts that at least some of those joints are marginal.

My recommendation would be to use some desoldering braid to undo/clean everything off, then redo the joints making sure to create a solid mechanical connection (i.e. wrap those leads around one another tightly, don't be shy) prior to applying the solder. Then, only apply enough solder to join the pieces. No need for big globs. Solder should be shiny when properly applied, and not relied upon to create an electrical connection.
Hi Moxxy. Thanks for the advice. I was hesitant to wrap the leads - concerned with breaking/shearing them off. I found problems with getting the solder to stick in-between the leads. Also found solder turning into black concentrated pieces which required constant cleaning. Using small pencil style gun. Maybe too hot?

I look forward to more research and redoing the boards.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Here is how I wired mine up.
Hi Fuj32

I traced your circuit diagram and find it same as mine, assuming your positive input is located in upper right side. The only difference is the layout of the components. Next steps are to disassemble, clean leads and reconnect. I have no problem copying your layout if it helps reduce uncertainties with the group also.
 

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Good catch. Strange to me, one terminal was much narrower than the other and wasn't covered inside a kit purchased from parts-express. I did swing by my local Radio Shack only to find out they have recently closed. Any idea which size these are?

No, I used two plates totaling four posts. Left side (top) is Positive input, (bottom) is high freq positive. Right side plate (top) is low freq positive, (bottom) is ground with three wires.
I don't know what size they use, you'll need to measure the tab. There is no need for more than one terminal plate.
 

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Hi Moxxy. Thanks for the advice. I was hesitant to wrap the leads - concerned with breaking/shearing them off. I found problems with getting the solder to stick in-between the leads. Also found solder turning into black concentrated pieces which required constant cleaning. Using small pencil style gun. Maybe too hot?
I soldered with a Weller 40 watt and had it set a little over half on the dial, make sure it heats up for a minute or two before starting. It shouldn't be hot enough to "cook" the solder.

Did you use 60/40 or 63/37 rosin core solder made for electronics?

A gentle twist of the leads together shouldn't cause them to break. It should be tight enough that a gentle pull on either wire doesn't separate them. Just hold the wires next to each other and twist once or twice. The solder isn't made to hold a physical connection tight.

Also do you keep the tip of your soldering iron tinned? It should always have a shiny tip with just a little bit of solder, it shouldn't be black. So melt solder onto the tip then dab it onto your sponge to remove the excess. Depending on how long you leave the iron hot without soldering a new connection you might have to re-tin the iron multiple times.

When you apply the solder heat the surface you are trying to solder instead of just putting the solder onto the iron and letting it melt onto a cold surface. The iron should "pull" the solder instead of having the iron melt and then letting the solder "drip" onto the cold surface.
 
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