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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,


Hope someone can help me. I have just acquired a reasonably priced Laserdisc player to use with DSCALER and Barco 808. The picture overall is pretty pleasing but I have a dilemma that is giving me headaches.


Basically I’m using a cheap capture card (pinnacle Rave) and so get some noise interference. With Laserdisc this appears to be in the form of horizontal lines across the picture (esp. in dark scenes). I’ve tried the new Gradual and Adaptive filters but these lines remain, although other noise does clear up. However if I try the temporal noise filter the lines are completely removed and static images look great. The problem is that the temporal filter creates quite blurry motion artefacts and I’m finding these unliveable with.


My question really is, can I get the removal of the Horizontal lines using on of the other filters? Can I change the setting in any way that will give me a nice solid looking picture with low noise? I can tolerate some noise if I can get rid of the obvious lines and bluriness.


Thanks for any help in advance


Nick
 

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You’ve got a few different options, but none of them are perfect. Basically, to get rid of heavy noise in one part of the screen, you need to live with some blurring in the rest of it.


Here are a few things to try, probably in order of preference:


1) Use adaptive noise, but turn up the noise reduction until the lines become softer, then (here’s the trick) turn down the stability setting. Lowering the stability setting makes high noise reduction values more palatable. (I’m likely to change the meaning of the stability setting in the future, so it will automatically scale for changes in noise reduction.)


2) Use gradual noise, but increase noise reduction. Of course that’ll increase the blurring.


3) Use temporal noise, but reduce the thresholds.



Out of curiosity (and for future filter improvements) — Could you describe those noise lines more exactly? Would you say that they’re just a single scanline in height? Are they fleeting? Are they colorful?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
THanks Lindsey, I'll give those a go. I had a play about yesterday but actually increased stability (Dscaler is a bit of a blurr in itself to me! But I'm slowly learning). I'll try more tonight.


My other options are to reduce noise in the card or even get a new card so I can use lower settings or any filters I use.


The noise I'm getting are like scan lines, possibly a bit higher, and the show up lighter on a dark background. If I turn on the LD player and get up a black screen they seem to move down the screen. They seem to be a few shades of grey down from the black of the screen.


I'll try and pay more notice tonight. They just hard to describe!


Thanks


Nick
 

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A tirck that works well for me is to switch off Chroma AGC Odd&Even and adjust colour settings to compensate. All my connections are svideo, not sure how well this would work for composite.


Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'll give that a go Jeff.


I have been reading that KT133 VIA chipsets can cause video capture and Dscaler problems, as I have a EPOX 8KT something board and Athalon, maybe an upgrade to a decent intel based sytem could reap rewards.


In the meantime I might try moving the card to the furthest away PCI slot and try wrapping some foil in a bag an using it as a shield.


Would a Falcon help with these lines?


Thanks

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Nick
 

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Hmm... Maybe I was misjudging the kind of horizontal lines you’re seeing. Does the picture referred to in this thread look something like your lines:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...postid=1060575


If so, then this is a sign of a hardware problem. I know of a workaround for it, and plan to implement it reasonably soon. (But if you can manage it, you’re much better off with a system which won’t need the workaround — It slows the filters down by a factor of two.)
 

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Make sure it's not Macrovision. If so adjust MV timings in the main menus. Check out Dscaler FAQ for the "purple stripes" issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Lyndsay,


It's not a PC problem! SO it shows just how good your Noise filters are!


The actual noise I have discovered is from the LD player itself. I hooked up a DVD player and it was perfectly watchable with no filters on at all.


I can get rid of a lot of this noise using the adaptive filter set to about 120 threshold and 2 or 3 stability. It does have some adverse effect on the PQ though.


I'm a bit annoyed, I may have to get the LD player looked at. The lines are wavey and light and waggle accross the screen. This starts on the blank screen as soon as the LD is turned on.


Could it be an Earthing problem, someone suggested this to me on the UK AVFORUM site?


Thanks


Nick
 

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Anyone new to laserdisc should realize that LD players (generaly) under the $900 mark tend to be noisy and murky. To get truly stunning images out of your player you need higher end Pioneer units retailing well over $1000 US.


I once owned a Elite DVL-91 and it literaly looked DVD like. With its built in noise reduction the image was smoother and more acceptable than DScalers noise filters.


So you have trade offs. Using a cheap laserdisc player is no where near what using a cheap DVD would be. Even the cheapest of the cheap DVD players still have a good video image. Laserdisc's are analog and require mucho $$$ just to get every ounce out the image.


I am using the Dscaler beta4 and find the newer noise filters better than 3.0.1.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Shawn,


I would love an elite, but this is just the start of an experiment with Laserdisc and so I went for a budget option. The 925 did actually cost £800 uk pounds when new and was the best officially imported to the uk.


I have learnt that the noise is the fault of a defect in the player. It is either a a ground loop in the power input or the isolation between electrical and chassis ground in the unit. I will investigate more toinight.


I know there's agood picture in there waiting to get out.


Thanks


Nick
 

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Glad you were able to figure out the problematic piece of equipment.


120 is definitely high for noise reduction. The highest I can live with (except with cartoons) is about 100. But if those lines are really a single scanline, then there’s hope that future versions of the filter will let you lower that setting a bit — I’m working on allowing for noise which is correlated within a line.


Otherwise, this is just a really difficult kind of noise to deal with. :( When there’s lots of noise throughout the picture, you can identify it and try to compensate. But when different parts of the image have different amounts of noise, there isn’t any easy way to tell between noisy and moving parts.
 
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