[Yamaha Guy]

Hey everyone. This is my first-ever (of hopefully many) posts here at AVS. This is the most respected forum related to home audio/video on the Internet, and I finally feel as though I can become a part of it.

I am not an audiophile by any means... I have always been fascinated by surround sound since I was a young'n (yes, I'm only 24), but now I have the means and space to finally build the system of my dreams. I bought a house last July... nothing special, just a two-bedroom ranch, but the basement has a finished rec room (a long rectangle, about 12'x25') that had ugly tile and needed a little TLC.


I had the room carpeted and a closet that was in the room converted into a place where I could safely house my A/V components. I had a 2-fan aquarium cooling system (think computer fans) installed, connected to a "thermostat" that will automatically activate the fans when the temperature reaches 72 degrees with the door closed.


What I should have done next was come to this forum and ask for advice... I believe the receiver I purchased at the time, the Yamaha RX-V765 was the best bang for the buck, and all reviews I have read (along with my ears) have made me feel very good about my purchase!


My speakers on the other-hand I still am iffy about... This leads me to post here and ask, why all the hate for Yamaha home theater speakers? I constantly see names like Polk Audio mentioned for producing the best speakers (apparently the current Polk Audio Monitor 60's can be had for as little as $120 from Newegg). In any case, I have always been a fan of Yamaha and was mistaken in thinking that their reputation for quality receivers extended into their speakers. From every Google search I have performed, this is the consensus.


Below I have a listing of my speakers and subwoofers... Is there anything wrong with the speakers that I bought, or is all of the "I will never buy Yamaha speakers" mentality just because of past poor quality efforts by the company? I am very happy with these speakers and they absolutely blow everyone away who hears them. Not just because I can make them loud, but because it sounds clear, concise, and crisp. Basically, all I am looking for are the people who know audio best to make me feel like "I did good" for my first ever, true, home theater setup. I know I can only go up in price and quality from here, and I probably will, but for an entry-level setup, how did I do?

Thanks everyone!!!!!!!

Front L/R Speakers: NS-777's

Center Speaker: NS-C444's

L/R Surround and L/R Rear: NS-333's

Front L/R Subwoofers (connected into receiver): Yamaha YST-SW325



----------------------------


FYI: I originally had links to the specifications of all of the speakers above, but the system will not let me post them because this is my first post. Sorry about that everyone.

 

[lmacmil]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamaha Guy /forum/post/18202796


I am very happy with these speakers and they absolutely blow everyone away who hears them. Not just because I can make them loud, but because it sounds clear, concise, and crisp.

Stop right now and don't read any more of this thread. If you are happy with them, that's all that matters. It's your ears you need to please, not those of the so-called "experts" who populate these forums.

 

[Yamaha Guy]

Uh oh... That bad, eh?

 

[Timothy91]

I have an old Yamaha center channel speaker in the closet from the 90's that sounds pretty good. It has a tweeter adjustment knob on it that helps match the center to other speakers.


There will be times where just about any speakers when put in the correct room will sound great. It's all about fitting the right speaker to the right application.


I'm building a system and leaving no option out but I will ultimately fit the correct speakers to this room.

 

[Yamaha Guy]

I agree with you Tim, and best of luck in finding speakers!


I guess if I could change the direction of the thread based on lmacmil's suggestion, the speakers that I bought are all 6 ohms. I have been doing research on the topic (a little late, I am aware) and found that the higher the ohms and Db, the more efficient the speaker. The lower the ohms and Db, the less efficient the speaker is and the more power is required to drive them. Is that a valid understanding of this topic?

 

[m_vanmeter]

no, Yamaha speakers are not bad. They receive very little marketing and very little exposure. In a recent test of bookshelf speakers, Audioholics.com reviewed the Yamaha NS-6490 (rated #1 out of 9 tested) and NS-333 (rated #4) and they did a respectful job of defending the "Yamaha" name. http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...-shootout-2009


Speakers are magic boxes and our ears are wonderful biological devices - every single speaker will sound "different" to every single listener, whether they want to admit it or not. So, if the Yamy's sound good to you, then they have passed the ultimate test and enjoy your system.


In all reality, you would probably have to spend many hundreds, or even thousands, of dollars to replace what you have and get any truly noticeable increase in sound quality. And as much as I like recommending the Polk Monitor lineup as great entry level speakers for folks with limited budgets (they are currently the "bang for the buck" leaders available today, unless you can find a truly great sale on Infinity Primus speakers) - Polk Monitors are probably not "better" than their equivelent Yamaha speaker.

 

[Yamaha Guy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by m_vanmeter /forum/post/18203309


no, Yamaha speakers are not bad. They receive very little marketing and very little exposure. In a recent test of bookshelf speakers, Audioholics.com reviewed the Yamaha NS-6490 (rated #1 out of 9 tested) and NS-333 (rated #4) and they did a respectful job of defending the "Yamaha" name. http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...-shootout-2009 .

This is a very interesting article! I did not blindly buy my speakers... Most of the reviews were positive, the frequency range was wide and there is something about having an "all one brand" system that I take pride in. I have always mixed and matched brands and for whatever reason I have always hated it. Thanks for the link and the logic!

 

[m_vanmeter]

enjoy your system.....and Welcome to the forum !


I post on several audio / HT forums, but this one is by far the best, with a group of extremely knowledgeable and helpful members. I encourage you to "hang around", I know I have learned a lot from the folks here.

 

[Yamaha Guy]

Thanks for the warm-wishes! It is good to be here.

 

[lmacmil]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamaha Guy /forum/post/18203162


Uh oh... That bad, eh?

Not at all. My first home theater setup was Yamaha speakers. Tower fronts, center channel and bookshelf rear. They were fine but when I got a sub, I didn't have enough space for the sub and the towers so I moved the bookshelf speakers to the front and they didn't work well as fronts. I am now using the towers in a 2-channel system and they are fine.

 

[Timothy91]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamaha Guy /forum/post/18203227


I agree with you Tim, and best of luck in finding speakers!


I guess if I could change the direction of the thread based on lmacmil's suggestion, the speakers that I bought are all 6 ohms. I have been doing research on the topic (a little late, I am aware) and found that the higher the ohms and Db, the more efficient the speaker. The lower the ohms and Db, the less efficient the speaker is and the more power is required to drive them. Is that a valid understanding of this topic?

From what I understand, ohm load doesn't effect efficiency much. Ohm load is just the electrical resistance of the speaker. A lower ohm load actually can equal 'more' loudness because it will be resisting less and opening the door up a bit more for the amp to unleash more watts. The problem is that it makes it harder on the amp.


Speaker efficiency has more to do with how many watts it takes to make the speaker produce a certain loudness.


Most manufacturers use 2.83v to test speaker sensitivity for a 1-watt/1-meter SPL measurement. 2.83v is pretty much the standard for 8-ohms. But to get 4-ohm speakers to the same measurement, if memory serves, you actually need 'less' voltage. Some 4-ohm car speakers are rated using 2.83v to inflate the SPL sensitivity numbers on their speaker ratings.


Here is a copy & paste quote from Crutchfield on this topic:

Quote:
2.83 volts: The manufacturer measures the SPL a speaker produces at 1 meter on 2.83V of input power. Today's solid-state amps do a pretty good job of maintaining their output voltage in comparison to older, tube-style amps. So the measurement of a speaker's voltage sensitivity is considered a more accurate measurement.


Now, a voltage of 2.83V will produce 1 watt from an 8-ohm speaker (the impedance of a typical home speaker), but car speakers are almost universally 4-ohm designs. So using 2.83V to measure a car speaker actually gives you the speaker sensitivity rating of 2 watts input power measured at 1 meter that's an effective 3 dB gain in sensitivity from an actual 1 watt/1 meter SPL measurement!!



For a truly accurate measurement of a 4-ohm car speaker's voltage sensitivity, you'd need to measure the SPL of the speaker at 1 meter, on 2 volts.


Tom Breithaupt, Amp and Speaker Engineer and Product Manager for Blaupunkt, explains:

Computing power (watts) from an amplifier (the voltage device) to a speaker (the resistor) is simple math P=(V x V)/R. Thus, running 1 volt into 4 ohm speaker, this computes to (1 x 1)/4 = 0.25 watts. Now, for 2.83volts/4 ohms, this equates to (2.83 x 2.83)/4 = 2 watts. As for 1 W/1 m, this requires 2V of drive voltage, which is (2 x 2)/4 ohms. Now for an 8 ohm speaker, for 2.83volts/8ohm, THIS NOW is 1 watt!! What is the difference? It is simply a 3 dB higher value when you reference 2.83V over 2V for a 4 ohm speaker as 99% of car audio is.

So, if you are to believe this, it would seem that 4-ohm speakers take 'less' power to reach their proper sensitivity rating. (2v - 4ohm vs 2.83v - 8ohm).


The major determination of sensitivity will be the weight of the cone. Paper is one of the most used materials by manufacturers to reach high output with few watts. Paper is not as 'stiff' as other substances and is more subject to distortion effects when trying to output those loud sounds. Manufacturers are at odds with each other regarding what produces better sound. Heavier materials driven by lots of watts or lighter materials driven by less watts. The mainstream companies tend to take the middle road approach with treated paper, poly cones, etc.


There are other considerations in design that effect efficiency such as the design of the speaker's motor (Bl & xmax being two major ones) and the enclosure that is used for it (size of enclosure, sealed? ported?) all matter in the efficiency of a speaker and how much peak SPL you can get out of it.


I think manufacturers should be posting numbers that matter more. Power compression specs, power handling specs based on white noise with continuous wattage and "Peak SPL" should be specs on speakers to truly show what they really can output.


Remember though, just because a speaker can get really really loud doesn't mean it will sound as good as another well designed speaker at a lower "matched" volume. There are speakers that will never reach 110db+ SPL but sound incredibly good under 100db.

 

[Yamaha Guy]

lmacmill, I was preparing for the worst... But then I realized that you meant I should not necessarily look for "acceptance" by those in this forum, but only by my ears.


From what I have seen (and had reinforced a bit thus far in this thread) is that Yamaha is a relatively under-rated brand when it comes to speakers. Under-rated things in life are typically the best value... I bought all of my speakers/subwoofers new with warranty and for a lot less than the MSRP; about comparable with the price you can buy Polk Monitor's.


In any case, all of the speaker wire (12AWG... I know it is exceptional overkill, but I got a great deal from Monoprice) is hidden in the ceiling/walls, and I am set for future upgrades to my system. Providing I stay in this house after I start having a family... I suppose I could sell it with a home theater in the basement. I'm sure someone would pay a premium for all of the hard work put into it!

 

[Yamaha Guy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy91 /forum/post/18203689


From what I understand, ohm load doesn't effect efficiency much. Ohm load is just the electrical resistance of the speaker. A lower ohm load actually can equal 'more' loudness because it will be resisting less and opening the door up a bit more for the amp to unleash more watts. The problem is that it makes it harder on the amp.


...


Remember though, just because a speaker can get really really loud doesn't mean it will sound as good as another well designed speaker at a lower "matched" volume. There are speakers that will never reach 110db+ SPL but sound incredibly good under 100db.

Tim! You are the man! Very well explained. You made sense of the various articles I skimmed off the Internet... they all seemed to contradict one another.

 

[EuroCarFan]

We have very similar stories. I'm 25 and just bought the same set of speakers. I too researched online and found little about this series of speakers. I did read the budget bookshelf shootout article posted above. I'm using an Onkyo TX-SR607 to power my set with the front towers bi-amped. I was lucky and found the set used on Craigslist for $250.

 

[jtenn]

Yamaha Guy,

I have the same exact setup except my mains are the 555's. http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...0&CTID=5002900 I'm powering them with a Harman Kardon AVR2600. I LOVE these speakers!!! I feel they are a real sleeper when it comes to H/T speakers. I also love the piano finish. A very classy looking speaker IMO. If you are happy with the sound then I would keep them. I feel that you would have to go up in price a lot(2x,3x) to find anything better.

 

[diamonddelts]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jtenn /forum/post/18597063


Yamaha Guy,

I have the same exact setup except my mains are the 555's. http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...0&CTID=5002900 I'm powering them with a Harman Kardon AVR2600. I LOVE these speakers!!! I feel they are a real sleeper when it comes to H/T speakers. I also love the piano finish. A very classy looking speaker IMO. If you are happy with the sound then I would keep them. I feel that you would have to go up in price a lot(2x,3x) to find anything better.

Now those are a beautiful pair of speakers. I remember reading about them a year ago. I always wondered what they sound like in person. Good to see someone took the leap on these. I see they did not disappoint.

 

[RonaldoCombs]

Yamaha NS-1000 speakers are legendary.


Ron

 

[mjg100]



Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldoCombs /forum/post/18597194


Yamaha NS-1000 speakers are legendary.


Ron

Yes. I have spent many hours listening to a pair of NS 1000's. Listened to music on them yesterday for about an hour. The beryllium domes do not mask anything that is in the recording. They are very precise.


Correction of a statement made in one of the other posts.

For sensitivity of a speaker you need to be given and understand all of the information presented. For instants a 8 ohm speaker with a 90db 2.83V at 1M (anechoic) is just as sensitive as a 4 ohm speaker 93db 2.83V at 1M (anechoic). That is because 2.83V into a 4 ohm load is 2 watts where as 2.83V into an 8 ohm load is 1 watt. Doubling the power is a 3db increase so you have to take that into account.


Also if the spec does not say anechoic, it is probably done in room and could have been measured by a wall or even in a corner. A 8 ohm speaker (anechoic) with 86db 1W/1M can have 92bd sensitivity or more if placed in a corner in a room.

 

[Yamaha Guy]

It's cool to see my post resurrected from the depths of the forums!

I am very glad to hear that others also "took the leap" and purchased the NS series of speakers from Yamaha... I am still a very satisfied customer.


I think one of the main things I realized after reading some of the responses to my initial thread was that it's definitely in the ears of the beholder. I consider my home theater to be "finished" for the forseeable future... Namely because I am working on having a patio built in my backyard... it is summer after all! But then next year I suppose I will be back to ask about "which outdoor speakers are the best bang for the buck"!

 

[Yamaha Guy]

I initially bought an NS-C225 center speaker instead of the NS-444.


In any case, it was only used for a month or two and has very light usage. The wood is in immaculate condition and it is currently housed in the packaging the NS-444 came in. I bought the NS-444 because it better matches my NS-777's in front as well as fits perfectly under my 100" screen. However, I have noticed that the NS-C225 does deliver a "wee" bit cleaner highs than the NS-444, and is in a MUCH smaller package. If you have a plasma/LCD it is a great solution.


Here is a link: http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...7&CTID=5002900


I paid $130 for the speaker new... I believe $75 + shipping is reasonable if anyone is interested.