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I expect more of the 2004 Pio 520s to be available. I liken or compare the situation of these great recorders to the 2002 Panasonic XP-30 PLAYERS at the middle to end of 2003. Not a great number were produced, it turned out to be a great unit and at the end you could pick them up fairly inexpensively. These Pioneers do not have the TV Guide crap, do record fantastic video, AND have a great graphic interface. Of course they do not do XP+ or dual layer as their successors but if you can pick up a unit for $300 bucks or less it is a deal.
 

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One more difference I understand the new models have vs the 520 is that the DV port is only 1 way in the new models (dv in), and 2 way in the 520. (dv in/out).


Can you tell me how to use the dv out?


Is this to connect to a PC? Do I need an application in the PC capable to understand I have a 520 connected in the firewire port and be able to transfer the video/audio to the pc hdd?


What are the limitations of the DV out?


Thank you
 

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You can use DVout ONLY for recording back to your camcorder.


Most advanced users are still waiting for DVD recorder with ability to connect to PC and transfer recorded titles as MPEG2 files for editing/authoring purposes.


ArtS :cool:
 

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Hey Houstonguy...any idea who's selling it?
 

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I picked up a 520HS from a local Good Guys last week for $299.99. Got it set up over the weekend. So far it seems like a great recorder and is going to work out very well for what I need one for. I did not want a guide in a recorder so this fit the bill.


Later,


Jim
 

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I nearly picked up one of the $300 520's from Good Guys, but I just couldn't justify having 3 HDD-DVD recorders.


So instead I ordered a Pioneer 225s from Amazon.com. At $160 with FREE shipping it's just too irresistible a deal to pass up. Plus, I can put it in my living room A/V cabinet and use it to edit -RW discs made with my Sony HX900, rather than doing it in the upstairs bedroom (and the smallish 11 y/o Sony TV) where my 420 and TiVo unit reside.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudytx
One more difference I understand the new models have vs the 520 is that the DV port is only 1 way in the new models (dv in), and 2 way in the 520. (dv in/out).


Can you tell me how to use the dv out?


Is this to connect to a PC? Do I need an application in the PC capable to understand I have a 520 connected in the firewire port and be able to transfer the video/audio to the pc hdd?


What are the limitations of the DV out?


Thank you
I have used the DV out on my DVR-510H-S to my Mac. I've imported directly to iMovie. The limitation is that the video must be either on the Pioneer's HDD or DVD. It does not pass through live video the way an analog-to-digital converter box will. It is faster to use the Pioneer to convert MPEG to DV in real time than to insert the DVD in my Mac and use software to convert to DV. So there is a time advantage to using the DV out even though it isn't really a necessary thing because there are other ways to get the DV video on to your computer.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtS
You can use DVout ONLY for recording back to your camcorder.


Most advanced users are still waiting for DVD recorder with ability to connect to PC and transfer recorded titles as MPEG2 files for editing/authoring purposes.


ArtS :cool:


I'm sure I've read on this forum that just about any firewire Mac (at least back to the G4 400 Mhz 'sawtooth', can input the 520's DV output directly into iMovie, Final Cut Express, Final Cut Pro, or any other Mac based video application, and back into the 520 when finished editing.


Cool stuff ....
 

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The 420/520 also has an auto record feature on LINE input 1 which can be used to work with a sat box, a feature that was dropped from the 531/33/633. According to doxtorRay and others they made the menu system less intuitive and a little harder to work with in the newer models.


HoustonGuy, have you ever done the XP+ vs XP bit comparison you talked about in your earlier threads? Can you give us some results?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGuy
I expect more of the 2004 Pio 520s to be available. I liken or compare the situation of these great recorders to the 2002 Panasonic XP-30 PLAYERS at the middle to end of 2003. Not a great number were produced, it turned out to be a great unit and at the end you could pick them up fairly inexpensively. These Pioneers do not have the TV Guide crap, do record fantastic video, AND have a great graphic interface. Of course they do not do XP+ or dual layer as their successors but if you can pick up a unit for $300 bucks or less it is a deal.
I just bought a new 533HS from onecall.com for $359 complete, including free 3 day shipping. $299 doesn't seem like much of discount for last years model, unless there is something about last year's model you prefer. In addition to the other enhancements to the 533HS already mentioned, it's been reported that the new encoder has no pixelazation issues, and improved PQ, especially at longer times.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by probepro
I just bought a new 533HS from onecall.com for $359 complete, including free 3 day shipping. $299 doesn't seem like much of discount for last years model, unless there is something about last year's model you prefer. In addition to the other enhancements to the 533HS already mentioned, it's been reported that the new encoder has no pixelazation issues, and improved PQ, especially at longer times.
That depends on whether you want the EPG hassles that have been widely reported--those with satellite may not want that stuff grinding on the recorder's hard drive. Depends on if you want to give up the auto record function on the 20's that the new ones dropped. Depends on whether you like the 20's easier to use menu system. While the new Pios add the XP+ capability, that can't be used to record to DVD. It is also undetermined from what I have seen as to whether XP+ to hard drive re-encoded to XP on DVD produces a better result than XP to hard drive with high speed copy to DVD on the 20's--still waiting for a verdict from someone on that. Apparantly you can record SP quality at longer times on the new ones, but I have had no macroblocking or black-out bug issues on my 520H. So the decision isn't quite as cut and dried as you make it. There are real pros and cons for each model depending on your needs.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by squonk
That depends on whether you want the EPG hassles that have been widely reported--those with satellite may not want that stuff grinding on the recorder's hard drive. Depends on if you want to give up the auto record function on the 20's that the new ones dropped. Depends on whether you like the 20's easier to use menu system. While the new Pios add the XP+ capability, that can't be used to record to DVD. It is also undetermined from what I have seen as to whether XP+ to hard drive re-encoded to XP on DVD produces a better result than XP to hard drive with high speed copy to DVD on the 20's--still waiting for a verdict from someone on that. Apparantly you can record SP quality at longer times on the new ones, but I have had no macroblocking or black-out bug issues on my 520H. So the decision isn't quite as cut and dried as you make it. There are real pros and cons for each model depending on your needs.


Which is why I said there may be features on last years model which you prefer. The 533HS was an easy decision for me. The complaints about the EPG have been blown way out of proportion, and there is no disk grinding - just seeks, reads, and writes. The 533HS will be obsolete long before the disk drive wears out. But the auto record feature would come in handy with my DirecTivo on occasion. The menu systems are comparable despite the nit picks of a few. As for XP+ producing better copies on DVD, the 533HS manual says no, as expected. Of course the most important feature of any recorder is PQ, and with the new encoder and refreshed electronics, the odds are definitely in favor of the 533HS. If the PQ was the same, then last years model would be a lot more attractive.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by probepro
Which is why I said there may be features on last years model which you prefer. The 533HS was an easy decision for me. The complaints about the EPG have been blown way out of proportion, and there is no disk grinding - just seeks, reads, and writes. The 533HS will be obsolete long before the disk drive wears out. But the auto record feature would come in handy with my DirecTivo on occasion. The menu systems are comparable despite the nit picks of a few. As for XP+ producing better copies on DVD, the 533HS manual says no, as expected. Of course the most important feature of any recorder is PQ, and with the new encoder and refreshed electronics, the odds are definitely in favor of the 533HS. If the PQ was the same, then last years model would be a lot more attractive.
The question for me (and I may decide to spring for a newer model as a second recorder IF I think it is worth it) is whether the PQ is NOTICEABLY better at XP (Fine) and at SP than it is on the 520, recorded to DVD. I record all programs at SP or better. If it is true you can get SP recording quality now all the way out to 3.5 hours without problems, that would be an advantage in recording ballgames. I have not heard anyone say that the PQ is that much better in those recording modes. I have been trying for weeks to get HoustonGuy to give us the results of his bitrate comparisons to no avail, because he has both models. XP+ is nice for the HDD, but if you re-encode it down to XP and it gives you no better result than XP high speed dubbed to XP, you've just wasted a lot of recording time to me. I think DoxtorRay has both models--is the PQ significantly better on the 531/33 than the 520/420?


By the way, given the hundreds and hundreds of messages that have documented the frustrations with the EPG, I think it has gone beyond nitpicks. I think DoxtorRay just posted something to the effect of "Every time I try to give this piece of crap interface a chance to work, it does its own thing." If you have to go to extreme lengths to work around a central feature of a product, I'm going to think twice before buying. If you can work around the EPG but that limits your viewing/recording capabilities, it seems to me that is a major flaw to contend with.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by probepro
$299 doesn't seem like much of discount for last years model, unless there is something about last year's model you prefer. In addition to the other enhancements to the 533HS already mentioned, it's been reported that the new encoder has no pixelazation issues, and improved PQ, especially at longer times.
$299 is HALF of what the 520 originally sold for. So I'm not sure what you mean by "doesn't seem like much of a discount."


The x31/x33 series does have some improvements, but as already pointed out, some features were dropped, and doesn't seem as intuitive to use. Not good news when IMHO the x20 series wasn't all that intuitive to begin with.


The TV Guide EPG has had universal complaints from Panasonic and Sony owners as well, so it's not just Pioneer owners that are "blowing it out of proportion."


As has been pointed out with other brands, newer doesn't necessarily mean better.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonDawg
$299 is HALF of what the 520 originally sold for. So I'm not sure what you mean by "doesn't seem like much of a discount."


The x31/x33 series does have some improvements, but as already pointed out, some features were dropped, and doesn't seem as intuitive to use. Not good news when IMHO the x20 series wasn't all that intuitive to begin with.


The TV Guide EPG has had universal complaints from Panasonic and Sony owners as well, so it's not just Pioneer owners that are "blowing it out of proportion."


As has been pointed out with other brands, newer doesn't necessarily mean better.
What the 520 sold for when it was new has nothing to do with its value today, but that should be obvious. There are folks here who don't like Pioneer's implementation of the EPG, others who say it's about the same everywhere, and some who think it's great. The complaints about the EPG seem to be more visceral than objective, which is often the case with forums like this. It's a great place to share information and ideas, but there are few shades of grey - just black and white. Things get blown out of proportion. If you believed half of what your read here, you wouldn't buy any of these poorly designed products from any of these shyster manufacturers. Interestingly, the same folks complaining the loudest about that are the same ones shopping at Walmat. How screwed-up is that? When it comes to home electronics, newer does mean better, that is, if you are opened minded about it. That doesn't mean there aren't lemons or missteps by manufactures, but that's not the case here.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by probepro
When it comes to home electronics, newer does mean better, that is, if you are opened minded about it. That doesn't mean there aren't lemons or missteps by manufactures, but that's not the case here.
There are many examples in the consumer electronics front where newer does NOT mean better.


For example, with DVD players the Panasonic RP62 and XP30 (I think I got those model numbers right) are considered the best of their breed. NONE of Panasonic's DVD player line before or SINCE can outperform them. Don't believe me? Go over to the DVD Players Forum and ask for yourself.


Now that plasma and LCD TV's are all the rage, TV manufacturers are shying away from making HiDef CRT TV's in the larger sizes. However, go over to the Displays Forum and you'll see many videophiles with a preference for CRT's over LCD or Plasma. However, just try to buy a NEW 40 inch CRT Mitsubishi or Sony; they're no longer made. I understand that my Sony 36XS955 was recently discontinued and there is NO replacement for it; the biggest CRT HiDef Sony you can buy now is a 34.


American consumers, being what they are, want all the bells and whistles for a dirt cheap price, and electronics manufacturers are caving into that desire. So they do it by cutting corners that the majority of the buying public won't notice, but that discerning enthusiasts definitely will.
 

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RonDawg- I hope the Sony 965(or is it the 960) model is available when I can afford it($2,500.00). Considered to be the reference standard for CRT Monitor/TV's.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonDawg
There are many examples in the consumer electronics front where newer does NOT mean better.


For example, with DVD players the Panasonic RP62 and XP30 (I think I got those model numbers right) are considered the best of their breed. NONE of Panasonic's DVD player line before or SINCE can outperform them. Don't believe me? Go over to the DVD Players Forum and ask for yourself.


Now that plasma and LCD TV's are all the rage, TV manufacturers are shying away from making HiDef CRT TV's in the larger sizes. However, go over to the Displays Forum and you'll see many videophiles with a preference for CRT's over LCD or Plasma. However, just try to buy a NEW 40 inch CRT Mitsubishi or Sony; they're no longer made. I understand that my Sony 36XS955 was recently discontinued and there is NO replacement for it; the biggest CRT HiDef Sony you can buy now is a 34.


American consumers, being what they are, want all the bells and whistles for a dirt cheap price, and electronics manufacturers are caving into that desire. So they do it by cutting corners that the majority of the buying public won't notice, but that discerning enthusiasts definitely will.
With all due respect, you would have to be an engineer, a marketing expert, an industry specialist, a sociologist, and more, to be able to backup these claims. I put more stock in the engineers who design these products than your average Joe with no credentials. When it comes to video equipment, newer is better. Like I said, that doesn't mean there won't be lemons of missteps by manufactures, but that's not the case here. What we've got here is someone's favorite feature being eliminated or compromised for reasons they don't understand. For better or worse, these products must have mass appeal to succeed in the marketplace, and they will not be tailored to each of our wants and desires.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonDawg
For example, with DVD players the Panasonic RP62 and XP30 (I think I got those model numbers right) are considered the best of their breed. NONE of Panasonic's DVD player line before or SINCE can outperform them. Don't believe me? Go over to the DVD Players Forum and ask for yourself.
Well, I don't believe you simply because you didn't get the model number right. The newer Panasonic DVD-S97/S77 models are also very good in their own virtues and they have upscaling features which the older models don't.


For certain types of CE products such as amplifiers (especially the ones using vacuum tubes) and/or speakers, there are collector's items made in the past and may have better specs and performance than the current products. But I really doubt that DVD recorders/players generally belong to the same category, especially since these products depend so much on other equipment used in terms of measured or perceived performance.


If people prefer discontinued older models over the currently available models, that's certainly their choices and that's why eBay is such a great place to sell/buy them. After all, price/performance ratio can be quite subjective to each individual.
 
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