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Discussion Starter #1
/rant/


When will there be a blackbox to take HDMI to component video for us early HDTV owners who DON't WANT TO BUY A NEW HDTV!


I spent a lot of money on my HDTV and I guess since a blackbox will probably never be made I will miss out on the HD-DVD revolution for a while. There's no way I cam going to buy a new set until the lamps die out in my set. Thank god the cable company's DVR lets me use component cables for HD.


Hopefully there'll be a cheap chinese HD player that can be hacked to do HD over component someday for us early adopters.


Or maybe HVD from China titles will be available and I can get one of those players like the neodigits or kingwell.


/rant off/
 

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Well the HD-DVD players and BD Players I saw pics of -- had component out as well as HDMI --- I don't think they will alienate those people who don't have a HDMI port....
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PimpDadd
Well the HD-DVD players and BD Players I saw pics of -- had component out as well as HDMI --- I don't think they will alienate those people who don't have a HDMI port....
There just remains the question as to whether or not the full resolution (1080i or 1080p) signal output via HDMI will also be available to the component outputs. Some folks are saying that only 480i or 480p will be available from the component outputs due to copy protection issues. :(


Hopefully more specific answers will come from the presenters at CES today... :confused:


regards


toyz4boyz
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Quote:
plays HD DVD high-definition discs (selectable 720p/1080i output available through HDMI output only — HDMI cable included)
From the Crutchfield description of the Toshiba. 480p only from component :(
 

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Looks like they will only output 480i/p over component. This could definitely hurt both formats, but I don't know by how much.
 

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the Toshiba (at least the 500$ one) appears to only do 480i/p on component


the Sony, Pioneer and Philips appear to be 1080 on output. I am guessing it means that it will let the disk decide (ICT) or in other words do 1080 if the ICT is set to no, on the + side Fox, Disney, Sony nd MGM said they will not use ICT (i.e. they will set it to no). Warner (from rumours appears to be the most Down rez friendly), and I don't know about LG, Paramount or Universal



PS I know Samsung is 1080p for HDMI but not sure what it is for component)
 

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Sony is a little to anal about copy right protection to allow 1080 over component. I don't think they'll do it. I'd like them to, but I seriiously doubt they will.
 

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They really are shooting themselves in the foot with these restrictions on component out. I mean really, there are no affordable products that can take component back to a compressed digital format, and you still will have generational loss, which is not what pirates are after anyway.


Who are the people that are going to buy these products? Early adopters. The people that bought their displays and projectors before HDCP. Not Joe and Jane Smith who just bought an LCD with HDMI in. They think regular DVD looks like HD (or is HD, depending on education).


Sure, there are those of us who have already upgraded to a new set since the first one, and they'll be able to run the new players, but I'm guessing 3/4 of their target market runs displays they have no intention of retiring which only take component in.


I'll wait. Great analog != digital, and their draconian copyright methods will alienate their target audience.
 

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I want to get a new TV anyways since my daughters ( used to be mine of course ) old (over 10 years ) analog 50" Toshiba is dying, so I will give her the Component only HD set and I will get one of those new 1080P DLP sets, I will justify the purchase by dropping all the Premium Movie channels on my cable service, the only reason I have them is because they are in HD.

So, HBO/Max is gone ( owned by Time Warner-Warner Bros, New Line) Showtime ( owned by Paramount ) and Starz ( Universal has a small stake in it ).
 

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Quote:
Sony is a little to anal about copy right protection to allow 1080 over component. I don't think they'll do it. I'd like them to, but I seriiously doubt they will.
it is up to you to believe it or not, I guess we will eventually see what it really is. All I can do is rereport what was said. But you don't think it at least a coincidence that the only HD-DVD player so far (I know RCA mentioned one, but have not read any specs so far) goes down to 480p (below ICT range that is 540p) while all the BR players we have any info so far can output full HD from the players?
 

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I apologize, I must have misread your first post on the matter. If they leave it to the disc/studio to decide, that would be great...at least you'd have the potential of seeing it through component. Personally, I'm not effected either way, but I'm sure many will be.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
The only thing I know of to record component video HD is the old W-VHS professional VCR's. Tapes are $30+ each and hard to find.


I don't know of any computer capture cards that have component inputs.


So what are they thinking will pirate the analog HD signal?
 

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Originally Posted by telemike
The only thing I know of to record component video HD is the old W-VHS professional VCR's. Tapes are $30+ each and hard to find.


I don't know of any computer capture cards that have component inputs.


So what are they thinking will pirate the analog HD signal?
That's what I'm saying. They're getting worked up about nothing. I understand them wanting to protect the digital signal, because that would allow perfect copies, but protecting analog signals? Come on, that's just stupid.
 

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Originally Posted by Fast351
That's what I'm saying. They're getting worked up about nothing. I understand them wanting to protect the digital signal, because that would allow perfect copies, but protecting analog signals? Come on, that's just stupid.
Even protecting the digital signal is silly. Piracy is a red herring. Large pirating groups that sell actual DVD's currently just make bit for bit copies of disks with their own duplicators.


The real thing they're worried about is access to and control of the raw content. That is all they're concerned with, yet to me it doesn't make any sense. Right now, there are people who download ISO copies of DVD's that they can burn to DVD-R media and play in a stand alone player, provided it can read burned discs. It doesn't matter what cryptographic system they use to protect the content. If you have the disc then you have the content, even if encrypted. If you have a player, especially a software player, you have one of the keys to decrypt that content. All it takes is one poorly protected key or enough people interested in finding the key and we'll have one. The pirating group Drink or Die released a DVD ripper before Jon Johansen wrote DeCSS, and they derived their key by reverse engineering the Xing DVD software.


Why is anyone going to take the time to try and steal the content over the analog or digital outputs when the real pirates who are making money off of content and hurting the studio's bottom lines will be making bit copies?


Joseph
 

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bri1270: AACS added something called ICT (image constraint token) what it does is tell the player if the studio wants to force a down rez (yes) or not (no) if the studio sets yes the player must DR the video if it is meant for a none encrypted port (i.e. anything analog or none encrypted DVI) while processing (decoding) the video.


During the AACS votes Sony and Disney both voted against its inclusion stating that they did not care if users had HD over unencrypted. Fox in a PR said that they won't use it even if it is there because there are no recording devices that can take an uncompressed ready for display signal coming out of component or DVI and then recompress it (perfectly or not). The reality is such a device would need to be extremely powerful.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephShaw
Right now, there are people who download ISO copies of DVD's that they can burn to DVD-R media and play in a stand alone player, provided it can read burned discs. It doesn't matter what cryptographic system they use to protect the content.
Since it's been a while, I'll reply to myself instead of editing my post to elaborate on my point.


If a burned/copied disk is bit for bit identical to a real disc, then all the content protection in the world has accomplished nothing. And at the size of the native video files, it's not like someone is going to rip a BD/HD-DVD movie and slap it on their 2GB card and into their PSP. So what exactly are they protecting against?


Joseph
 
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