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I just got back from Sweden and was wondering Looking at there programing in Europe I notices the Pans where smooth.

What is the tech reason for this compare to our system.

I got a chance to go to some Hi-fi places and also noticed most of there TV on display where Wide Screen. The choices of programing was pathetic at least in Sweden.

I did see more interlace problem.


Just curious


Thanks Hugo
 

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Hi,

on the other hand PAL suffers from transferring film (24 frames) to video (50 fields -> 50Hz PAL) by speeding the film up by 4% which results in a IMHO unacceptable alteration of the audio stream. Esp. music becomes almost one half tone to high in pitch changing the whole character of the music http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

You are alway better off with NTSC by using a good video scaler that reverses the 3:2 pulldown properly (the soft DVD players are quite good at that).


REgards


Christoph


[This message has been edited by clehner (edited 06-22-2001).]
 

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First of all PAL HAS better resolution than NTSC (576 vs 480 lines).


When you see a film on PAL the frames are altered from 24 to 25.Not much of a difference and I can't really understand how some people can tell the very slight difference in pitch.


Film on NTSC has to go from 24 to 30.Because THAT is really unacceptable, they invented the 3:2 pulldown technique which is not that perfect.


I've seen both PAL and NTSC and IMHO PAL is much better than NTSC.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Johnkok:
First of all PAL HAS better resolution than NTSC (576 vs 480 lines).


... I can't really understand how some people can tell the very slight difference in pitch.


Film on NTSC has to go from 24 to 30.Because THAT is really unacceptable, they invented the 3:2 pulldown technique which is not that perfect.


I've seen both PAL and NTSC and IMHO PAL is much better than NTSC.
Johnkok,


of course PAL can be better than NTSC because of the higher resolution but I have not seen a case where the PAL resolution could top a perfectly mastered NTSC DVD.


If you know actors' voices well and if you are familiar with certain music scores the 4% speedup definately can drive you nuts. Take e.g. the beginning of 2001, the Zarathustra music opens in C major. With PAL speedup it is C-sharp major (almost) producing very odd harmonic waves. It completely ruins the original Richard Strauss music http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif


Regards


Christoph

 

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is SECAM (from France) affected the same way as PAL (~4% speed-up)?


And what happens with multi-region, multi-system players? Will a 50 Hz euro player slow down an NTSC disc? Will a 60Hz player speed up a PAL/SECAM disc?


Pancho
 

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Hi Pancho,


I think Secam has the same problem as the 50Hz of PAL have been chosen for the reason of Europe having a 50Hz power supply.

A multi-system player does not touch the original sources. PAL is played back at 50Hz, NTSC at 60Hz (even 'pseudo PAL' the TV has to be capeable of doing that).

Also an NTSC player running on a 60Hz power supply and that is able to play back PAL will just reproduce the 4% speedup.


For more insight just take a look at:

How film is transferred to video


Regards

Christoph


[This message has been edited by clehner (edited 06-23-2001).]


[This message has been edited by clehner (edited 06-23-2001).]
 

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Cristoph


Thanks for the answer and the link.


BTW I'm interested in discs that audio & subtitles in both English & French, what in your opinion would be better to watch: SECAM R2 discs from France or NTSC R1 discs from Canada?


Pancho
 

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ah ah ! the old war again.


i'm European but my US movies, they are watched and listened to in ntsc, region 1! I can't stand pal speedup and I DO notice it immediately, especially since I have tons of ntsc laserdiscs and tons of soundtracks ( US cds ).

I 'll take ntsc any day over pal: the other reason is the quality of encoding and the transfer from original film masters while pal dvd often are just transcodings.


Thoud ntsc artefacts, when present, are annoying but so is PAL flickering (the 50hz). PAL has a better color accuracy and color bandwith. But the previous reasons often annihilate this advantage.



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http://y42.photos.yahoo.com/bc/huntf...heater&.view=t
 

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Hugomed,


Welcome to the world of Swedish television http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif

I guess that the rights for movies tend to be held back quite a lot here if you compare it to e.g. HBO.

(at least it was like that when I went to the US a couple of years ago).


Yes most of the TV's are widescreen and we don't have the realy large 4:3 RPTV's that you have.

Though I think that most people who would buy that kind of TV goes with a plasma screen or FPTV instead.

If you looked at the pricetag you understand why http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif


Fredrik
 

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Hello Fredrik


I also noticed the limited DVD selections in stores. There are many title you don't carry. I believe the reason is the subtitle issue. The people I was staying with did not know about (Meet the Parents) and other titles.

I did get a movie from Sweden. I know its region 2 But I thought I might like it Its called Stalingrad. The clerk assured me it had English subs but when I got back I found it did not.

I see why some of our PAL friends go with NTSC setups.


Hugo
 

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Hugomed,


If you would have been to Sweden about 5 months ago you would see all the Reg 1 titles that you can get in the US.

Actually sometimes we got the titles a week before the official release date.

But due to a interest organisation over here all the grey-import stopped since all the Hometheater stores got sued if they didn't remove the Reg 1 titles.

The reason that stopped it all was that the Swedish distributors paid for the distribution-rights here in Sweden, the stores circumvented that by grey-importing Reg 1 titles.

But it's only the distributionrights that is affected by this, so I import all my DVD's from Canada at the moment.


All DVD players being sold over here (at least in the dedicated stores) are Region free and Macrovision free.


That sad thing about all this is that until know the Reg 1 transfers has been the reference and pushed the distributors to release good quality on video and sound.

Now that this has been removed to the "not so aware" people we get all kinds of strange transfers, e.g. Titan A.E. didn't have the 5.1 DD or DTS audio tracks, just a 2.0.

That's another reason I don't by DVD's here http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif


Basically we are being f*cked at the moment.

If you don't import a Reg 1 disc you can't be sure to get what you expect.


Fredrik
 
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