Close to 100 views, and no comments or pointers?
Hopefully I did not offend anyone?
Can I find the answers in other posts?
Thanks in advance!
Hopefully I did not offend anyone?
Can I find the answers in other posts?
Thanks in advance!
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Nuvo GC -> new house -> Russound MCA-88 (?) - few Qs and request for suggestions / input
After having been a very happy user of a Nuvo GC for a decade, including doing an expander expansion, added Spotify and worked to keep my aging MPS4 server alive, we suddenly find ourselves moving to a new house (existing construction but access to unfished attic and basement). The new house has no audio system, except the classic "one amp / 3 speaker selector hack job". So, the search for a new system started.
Call me old school, but we (the entire family) use the Nuvo keypads 80% of the time, the Nuvo Wifi remote 15% and the Nuvo app 5% of the time.
Plan is to have speaker wire homerun to basement location from all rooms. I'm looking to add the keypad Cat5/6, also homerun to the same rack location (likely around 10-12 zones).
Call me old school, but we (the entire family) use the Nuvo keypads 80% of the time, the Nuvo Wifi remote 15% and the Nuvo app 5% of the time.
Plan is to have speaker wire homerun to basement location from all rooms. I'm looking to add the keypad Cat5/6, also homerun to the same rack location (likely around 10-12 zones).
- Keypads. I would very much like to have keypad functionality. Have to admit the Nuvo formfactor was perfect (for us). Enough info to be useful but not a full fledged iPad on the wall.....Seems like Russound is the way to go? The MDK-C6 seems like a hard button version of the Nuvo keypads, and if you want fancy you can connect XTS full color controllers in some locations (but at 3x the price of a MDK-C6 it's a bit hard to justify in every room). Aware of the approach of using Nuvo P5050s and then use the P10 keypads, which is OK, but I would miss the screen and the searchability of a real keypad (like the old Nuvo ones or MDK-C6).
- Media server. Seems like there was (is?) some concerns around the media server functionality not working great on the MCA-88 (slow loading menus and only 20 items at a time etc). Is this still a problem (or has there been firmware updates to fix that)? We do have a decent amount of stored music (about 4k songs) I'd like to have access to.
- Streaming server. I may be confused (after reading the MCA-88 manual) , but it seems as if there originally was a version (88X) with one streamer built in, but that is no longer the case? So for listening to two streaming sources you buy two XSource (but they may be discontinued?) or one (or two?) MBX-PRE units and connect them to the MCA-88?
- Pandora. Seems like Pandora support that was available on the Xsource is not available in MBX-PRE? Seems weird you can no longer use Pandora in a Russound system, so I'm likely missing something. Saw that it's supported under Chromecast using a MBX-PRE, but not sure if that means you can get it started and controlled from key pads?
- XZone4. The XZone4 may be the solution for me? It has 4 streamers, and includes Pandora, but it also seems to be discontinued?
- If you buy the units from Cruthfield or BestBuy (the only official online resellers), do they provide a installer login (to unlock the unit)? Do you need the installer log-in every time you do an update or change names or add a zone or two in the future? Or is it a one time initial unlock event and you then need the configuration password in the future? Yes, I'm a DIY, and based on the work I have done on the Nuvo system I'm pretty comfortable I can maintain the Russound system as well. Frankly, I did have to spend time undoing some of the "F-ups" done by my Nuvo installer back in the day.... Apologies for asking this question since I'm sure the answer is somewhere here, but a search found lots of discussion around the lock, but I was unable to find if it's a one time or every time item.
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
you did not offend anyone: but I think most folks today are putting in systems like Sonos or BlueSound for whole house audio: the system you want generally requires an 'Integration Partner' to install and program it
I put in an RTI 8 zone whole house audio system in my new house 20 years ago and if I had it to do over, I would go with one of the newer systems: just my opinion since no one else has responded to you
I put in an RTI 8 zone whole house audio system in my new house 20 years ago and if I had it to do over, I would go with one of the newer systems: just my opinion since no one else has responded to you
I was in a similar position to you a year ago. I ditched Nuvo, and am slowly installing Sonos Amps, centrally located.
We used the Nuvo KPs 98% of the time, really liked them. I have a RA2 system for lighting, so it's pretty easy to add a Pico Sonos remote, wall mounted, to each zone. Very limited functionality, but on/off/volume works well.
I had 11 zones of Nuvo. Sonos Amps currently backordered until October, currently replaced 6 zones so far. I installed an iPad mini in a wall mount in the kitchen, works incredibly well. The iPort mount is fantastic, but too expensive for multiple zones. Last weekend, bought another iPad Mini for the MBa. Wall mount from Makes by Mike on order. We will see how well the POE solution works for that mount. IPort POE for the kitchen iPad works flawlessly, but I dont think it will work with this new mount (and currently too expensive).
My Nuvo system still works for the other zones; using a Sonos:connect as a source for the Nuvo.
We painted the great room, and will paint many other rooms, so the Nuvo KP openings will be closed up. I am repurposing them for POE to tablets in 4 total locations.
I strongly considered Russound, but went with Sonos instead. One of my Nuvo distributors got me access to the Russound Installer program. Ultimately, I couldn't find enough good things said about the Russound system online. The Adorne keypads look really nice, though.
I dont carry my phone around at home, usually, so wall control is really important to me.
I have 2 Android tablets I'll mount in other locations, in the future. I mounted 1 in the MBa, but the native Android kiosk mode is buggy, so I'll need to find a kiosk app before using them for control.
We used the Nuvo KPs 98% of the time, really liked them. I have a RA2 system for lighting, so it's pretty easy to add a Pico Sonos remote, wall mounted, to each zone. Very limited functionality, but on/off/volume works well.
I had 11 zones of Nuvo. Sonos Amps currently backordered until October, currently replaced 6 zones so far. I installed an iPad mini in a wall mount in the kitchen, works incredibly well. The iPort mount is fantastic, but too expensive for multiple zones. Last weekend, bought another iPad Mini for the MBa. Wall mount from Makes by Mike on order. We will see how well the POE solution works for that mount. IPort POE for the kitchen iPad works flawlessly, but I dont think it will work with this new mount (and currently too expensive).
My Nuvo system still works for the other zones; using a Sonos:connect as a source for the Nuvo.
We painted the great room, and will paint many other rooms, so the Nuvo KP openings will be closed up. I am repurposing them for POE to tablets in 4 total locations.
I strongly considered Russound, but went with Sonos instead. One of my Nuvo distributors got me access to the Russound Installer program. Ultimately, I couldn't find enough good things said about the Russound system online. The Adorne keypads look really nice, though.
I dont carry my phone around at home, usually, so wall control is really important to me.
I have 2 Android tablets I'll mount in other locations, in the future. I mounted 1 in the MBa, but the native Android kiosk mode is buggy, so I'll need to find a kiosk app before using them for control.
Thank you - appreciate the feedback. The interrogation partner is a bit of a put-off, but I understand their business model. The percentage of people that are DIY is such a small percentage.you did not offend anyone: but I think most folks today are putting in systems like Sonos or BlueSound for whole house audio: the system you want generally requires an 'Integration Partner' to install and program it
I put in an RTI 8 zone whole house audio system in my new house 20 years ago and if I had it to do over, I would go with one of the newer systems: just my opinion since no one else has responded to you
The Sonos and Bluesound are both excellent systems, but we do like the keypads...
And from a cost perspective it's not cheaper to go Sonos since you need a whole stack of amplifiers in the basement. But then the Sonos app and interface is very nice and easy to use. Maybe the answer is to sprinkle your house with tablets and old Android phone to just run the app.
Again - appreciate your feedback.
Sounds like you and we have/had the same usage patterns of the keypads.I was in a similar position to you a year ago. I ditched Nuvo, and am slowly installing Sonos Amps, centrally located.
We used the Nuvo KPs 98% of the time, really liked them. I have a RA2 system for lighting, so it's pretty easy to add a Pico Sonos remote, wall mounted, to each zone. Very limited functionality, but on/off/volume works well.
Very interesting about pico remote, that is a good way to go. But then I need to instal an RA2 or sim system into the house. And it's not new construction, so not sure how complex that will become. It is a nice work around - I agree.
Again - sounds like our systems were very sim. The iport mount is very pretty. What is the usage pattern for rest of family? Any resistance to move to that kind of a iPad based solution over the keypads?I had 11 zones of Nuvo. Sonos Amps currently backordered until October, currently replaced 6 zones so far. I installed an iPad mini in a wall mount in the kitchen, works incredibly well. The iPort mount is fantastic, but too expensive for multiple zones. Last weekend, bought another iPad Mini for the MBa. Wall mount from Makes by Mike on order. We will see how well the POE solution works for that mount. IPort POE for the kitchen iPad works flawlessly, but I dont think it will work with this new mount (and currently too expensive).
My Nuvo system still works for the other zones; using a Sonos:connect as a source for the Nuvo.
We painted the great room, and will paint many other rooms, so the Nuvo KP openings will be closed up. I am repurposing them for POE to tablets in 4 total locations.
You are hitting a key point - if I go with another set of wall mounted keypads, they will need to be replaced at some point in the future....
What was the negatives you heard about Russound? I thought they had a pretty decent reputation?I strongly considered Russound, but went with Sonos instead. One of my Nuvo distributors got me access to the Russound Installer program. Ultimately, I couldn't find enough good things said about the Russound system online. The Adorne keypads look really nice, though.
I dont carry my phone around at home, usually, so wall control is really important to me.
Well, besides the whole "locking the system up".
Do you know if you have to have access to the installer program EVERY time you want to change something or is it just the first installation that requires the installer lock (assuming I have the configuration password)? What about software or firmware updates?
Thank you very much for thoughtful input, sounds like you and I were/are in a very sim situation.
The Russound whole house audio systems are similar to the Grand Concerto. Works great.
You do need an integrator involved to register the system on initial setup. Once registered, an integrator is not required.
Ideally you have an automation system to integrate the audio sources / content with the whole house amplifier. Touchscreens in the high traffic areas to replace old fashioned keypads. The advantage of that is then the rest of automation functionality is then also available on same touchscreen.
The myServer automation system you can add functionality as you need to. The user interface runs on any modern browser equipped device (ipad / iphone / android tablet / phone / windows etc). So your choice of on wall (and in hand) devices is huge. You probably already have these devices (cost savings).
You do need an integrator involved to register the system on initial setup. Once registered, an integrator is not required.
Ideally you have an automation system to integrate the audio sources / content with the whole house amplifier. Touchscreens in the high traffic areas to replace old fashioned keypads. The advantage of that is then the rest of automation functionality is then also available on same touchscreen.
The myServer automation system you can add functionality as you need to. The user interface runs on any modern browser equipped device (ipad / iphone / android tablet / phone / windows etc). So your choice of on wall (and in hand) devices is huge. You probably already have these devices (cost savings).
Thank you, helpful. God to hear that you only need the integrator upon initial install. You can do software upgrades using the normal interface as well?The Russound whole house audio systems are similar to the Grand Concerto. Works great.
You do need an integrator involved to register the system on initial setup. Once registered, an integrator is not required.
Again - appreciated. Are you also implying the the myServer path is the one to take to get the media server functionality to work well?Ideally you have an automation system to integrate the audio sources / content with the whole house amplifier. Touchscreens in the high traffic areas to replace old fashioned keypads. The advantage of that is then the rest of automation functionality is then also available on same touchscreen.
The myServer automation system you can add functionality as you need to. The user interface runs on any modern browser equipped device (ipad / iphone / android tablet / phone / windows etc). So your choice of on wall (and in hand) devices is huge. You probably already have these devices (cost savings).
Nuvo (perhaps stupidly) never produced a dongle to bridge their modem line-up with existing GC controllers and systems, despite the ease at which the integration is accomplished. The result is that folks like yourself are now left to investigate alternate options, where NuVo offerings really don’t compare favorably.
I have been following the development of the Orro switch, which has some nice music integrations that might suit you. My personal concern is that anything not open source has a potential half-life of only a few years. There may be no way around this fact, unfortunately. For the time being, I’ve managed to programmatically extend the life of my GC and enhance its feature-set to somewhat modern standards. I can hang on for at least another few years, but that’s only thanks to my programming background and willingness to spend countless hours on writing code.
If I had to start from scratch, I’d probably take a close look at Heos, which has a very nice API.
I have been following the development of the Orro switch, which has some nice music integrations that might suit you. My personal concern is that anything not open source has a potential half-life of only a few years. There may be no way around this fact, unfortunately. For the time being, I’ve managed to programmatically extend the life of my GC and enhance its feature-set to somewhat modern standards. I can hang on for at least another few years, but that’s only thanks to my programming background and willingness to spend countless hours on writing code.
If I had to start from scratch, I’d probably take a close look at Heos, which has a very nice API.
It is odd to me that Nuvo just abandoned the GC customer base, or any customer that wants a key pad for their new system. Like you I think must have been rather easy to just make a small dongle that translates between whatever communication protocol the newer amplifiers/systems use, and the older NuvoNet communication. Then you could upgrade your old system with new sources, or add the older keypads to a new system. Personally I like the less flashy keypads over the large iPad size ones (including their old P30 7¨ Android system).Nuvo (perhaps stupidly) never produced a dongle to bridge their modem line-up with existing GC controllers and systems, despite the ease at which the integration is accomplished. The result is that folks like yourself are now left to investigate alternate options, where NuVo offerings really don’t compare favorably.
I have been following the development of the Orro switch, which has some nice music integrations that might suit you. My personal concern is that anything not open source has a potential half-life of only a few years. There may be no way around this fact, unfortunately. For the time being, I’ve managed to programmatically extend the life of my GC and enhance its feature-set to somewhat modern standards. I can hang on for at least another few years, but that’s only thanks to my programming background and willingness to spend countless hours on writing code.
If I had to start from scratch, I’d probably take a close look at Heos, which has a very nice API.
The Orro switch is a really cool idea. But I assume "someone" has to make the interface to a Nuvo/Russound/Sonos tec system.....
HEOS won't solve my keypad problem, will it? I thought it was more of a competitor to Bluesound or Sonos?
Your "universal adapter" is an automation controller. myServer (as one example) can talk to the GC and to thousands of other devices (like HEOS) and integrate the two. With that, the GC is just as "modern" as any other audio matrix switch.It is odd to me that Nuvo just abandoned the GC customer base, or any customer that wants a key pad for their new system. Like you I think must have been rather easy to just make a small dongle that translates between whatever communication protocol the newer amplifiers/systems use, and the older NuvoNet communication. Then you could upgrade your old system with new sources, or add the older keypads to a new system. Personally I like the less flashy keypads over the large iPad size ones (including their old P30 7¨ Android system).
The Orro switch is a really cool idea. But I assume "someone" has to make the interface to a Nuvo/Russound/Sonos tec system.....
HEOS won't solve my keypad problem, will it? I thought it was more of a competitor to Bluesound or Sonos?
Audio path:
HEOS> GC > speakers
Control path:
myServer usb > usb to RS232 > GC
and
myServer ethernet > HEOS
And put some tablets / phones on the wall and abandon the GC keypads (much more functional and "modern"). I am betting there is a way to reuse the GC keypad wiring to power the tablet on the wall.
Yep - I'm in the process of doing exactly this for my "NuVoBridge for Homeseer" project. It took a few hours to get transport controls working. Menuing is slightly more involoved, but thankfully very similar to Heos menuing which I've already written, so I still need to port my Heos code to make it work. Once that is complete, NuVo Portfolio will work from the keypads like the MPS4 does. However, you cannot yet power individual zones from the new App, allthough I may be able to make this work as well. It was all very straightforward. Jautor also wrote a Portfolio bridge as well a few years ago, which does not require Homeseer to work.I think must have been rather easy to just make a small dongle that translates between whatever communication protocol the newer amplifiers/systems use, and the older NuvoNet communication. Then you could upgrade your old system with new sources, or add the older keypads to a new system.
I'd figure someone at NuVo could have made such a black box device in all of a month or two, and sold it for $800 each to existing customers, giving us all an upgrade path.
I think it has built-in Sonos controls, so that integration would be straightforward. Other systems would likely not yet be possible, because their API is still in it's infancy.The Orro switch is a really cool idea. But I assume "someone" has to make the interface to a Nuvo/Russound/Sonos tec system.....
I have Heos working with keypad Menuing in my NuVobridge project. It's very much a home-spun solution. It also works like the MPS4, with the notable exception that it does not have the music library caltalog service on the Keypads. If you wanted to use Heos on your GC keypads, you could either download my system and buy Homeseer, or use something like MyServer, as mentioned. The takeaway here is that you can glue your GC keypads to any music system with an API, or through a 3rd party home automation kit which supports it.HEOS won't solve my keypad problem, will it? I thought it was more of a competitor to Bluesound or Sonos?
Aha, that makes sense. I assume you have to make your own conversion of the commands between the two? Or maybe that's actually easier than I think since it's a two way but separated control path. Still, have to admit, my original mission was to find something that has "keypads". The idea of always needing your phone with you is not attractive. I get the idea of sprinkling a number of phones/tablets as keypads, but then I do sort of scratch my head, why not have keypads in the first place?Your "universal adapter" is an automation controller. myServer (as one example) can talk to the GC and to thousands of other devices (like HEOS) and integrate the two. With that, the GC is just as "modern" as any other audio matrix switch.
Audio path:
HEOS> GC > speakers
Control path:
myServer usb > usb to RS232 > GC
and
myServer ethernet > HEOS
And put some tablets / phones on the wall and abandon the GC keypads (much more functional and "modern"). I am betting there is a way to reuse the GC keypad wiring to power the tablet on the wall.
And knowing the half life of phones, I fear that you end up in an endless upgrade cyel for them when used as keypads. But - I appreciate your note - it's one solution.
I did read in the other mega thread (MPS4 etc) about this, and I'm impressed. Have to admit, it's probably a bit too advanced for me. I would be comfortable using it and maintaining / updating it, but probably not building it.Yep - I'm in the process of doing exactly this for my "NuVoBridge for Homeseer" project. It took a few hours to get transport controls working. Menuing is slightly more involoved, but thankfully very similar to Heos menuing which I've already written, so I still need to port my Heos code to make it work. Once that is complete, NuVo Portfolio will work from the keypads like the MPS4 does. However, you cannot yet power individual zones from the new App, allthough I may be able to make this work as well. It was all very straightforward. Jautor also wrote a Portfolio bridge as well a few years ago, which does not require Homeseer to work.
I'd figure someone at NuVo could have made such a black box device in all of a month or two, and sold it for $800 each to existing customers, giving us all an upgrade path.
And yes on someone at Nuvo building it. Still remember the first time I called customer support to ask about the MPS4 having some app issues. The tech support guy was very nice, and shared that many people at Nuvo still liked the GC and the keypads. And then offered a special deal to "upgrade" my system to the P series of amps. Loosing the leypads and spending a xxxxload of money. Yeah, no thanks.
Understood. It's great that people like you are working on this.I have Heos working with keypad Menuing in my NuVobridge project. It's very much a home-spun solution. It also works like the MPS4, with the notable exception that it does not have the music library caltalog service on the Keypads. If you wanted to use Heos on your GC keypads, you could either download my system and buy Homeseer, or use something like MyServer, as mentioned. The takeaway here is that you can glue your GC keypads to any music system with an API, or through a 3rd party home automation kit which supports it.
There you are! I was wondering fi you were going to show up in this thread.NB:
GC + NNA + GC keypads
THANK YOU for all the hard work on the MPS4 in the other thread. It clearly saved my GC system from being scrapped by enabling Spotify in a useful manner!
Yes, but my understanding the NNA is pretty much unobtanium?
And, I have to admit, with the GC now being a solid 7+ years of NLA, I was hoping to get a system in the new house where I can sort of "reset the clock".
But It is telling that I have yet to have anyone answer some of the basic questions I had in the original post. Seems like maybe there is less of a enthusiast support for Russound than for Nuvo products? Or am I just in the wrong forum?
Esp my questions 2,3 ,4 and 5:
- Media server. Seems like there was (is?) some concerns around the media server functionality not working great on the MCA-88 (slow loading menus and only 20 items at a time etc). Is this still a problem (or has there been firmware updates to fix that)? We do have a decent amount of stored music (about 4k songs) I'd like to have access to.
- Streaming server. I may be confused (after reading the MCA-88 manual) , but it seems as if there originally was a version (88X) with one streamer built in, but that is no longer the case? So for listening to two streaming sources you buy two XSource (but they may be discontinued?) or one (or two?) MBX-PRE units and connect them to the MCA-88?
- Pandora. Seems like Pandora support that was available on the Xsource is not available in MBX-PRE? Seems weird you can no longer use Pandora in a Russound system, so I'm likely missing something. Saw that it's supported under Chromecast using a MBX-PRE, but not sure if that means you can get it started and controlled from key pads?
- XZone4. The XZone4 may be the solution for me? It has 4 streamers, and includes Pandora, but it also seems to be discontinued?
The reason a touch panel is better than an old fashioned keypad is that it can have much more capability. You can view the weather, see pictures of your kids, view the song lyrics, see the coverart, launch a movie, change a music stream, adjust the volume, stop the irrigation system, see a picture of the intruder, arm your security system, turn on the fan, turn off the lights and on and on.Aha, that makes sense. I assume you have to make your own conversion of the commands between the two? Or maybe that's actually easier than I think since it's a two way but separated control path. Still, have to admit, my original mission was to find something that has "keypads". The idea of always needing your phone with you is not attractive. I get the idea of sprinkling a number of phones/tablets as keypads, but then I do sort of scratch my head, why not have keypads in the first place?
And knowing the half life of phones, I fear that you end up in an endless upgrade cyel for them when used as keypads. But - I appreciate your note - it's one solution.
Keypads are one dimensional. You can put an old phone in an available enclosure and screw it to the wall in place of the keypad.
Hi @Nuvofan,
Thank you very much for the kind words! It has been a collective effort with many involved.
Not the least @xs10shl who has done amazing work, and I just wanted to complement his post to avoid misunderstanding of what is needed: You cannot unfortunately (yet) use the CG keypads without the GC, and for menuing a NNA. (NNAs are also found in the MPS4s which are more common.)
Having mentionned that, I very much enjoyed your post as I think that you are spot on in wondering what the best solution for your needs could be and would appreciate an “answer” as well.
You are right that the GC is getting old and should for that reason be difficult to recommend. But then, my brother uses an amplifier from the 70s with great sound, and matrix amps with good api:s are maybe equally timeless.
Today’s requirements are on intelligent, multimodal sw that can run a control device or smartphone and easily control e.g. the GC. The MPS4/MMS with e.g. Spotify does this exceptionally well at the moment, but we are without support…
I am equally bewildered that it is so difficult to find something modern inbetween a full wall mounted iPad and the GC keypads. Cheap and intelligent programmable keypads is what I would like to find. If we could find one, they could be adapted to most modern systems.
Thank you very much for the kind words! It has been a collective effort with many involved.
Not the least @xs10shl who has done amazing work, and I just wanted to complement his post to avoid misunderstanding of what is needed: You cannot unfortunately (yet) use the CG keypads without the GC, and for menuing a NNA. (NNAs are also found in the MPS4s which are more common.)
Having mentionned that, I very much enjoyed your post as I think that you are spot on in wondering what the best solution for your needs could be and would appreciate an “answer” as well.
You are right that the GC is getting old and should for that reason be difficult to recommend. But then, my brother uses an amplifier from the 70s with great sound, and matrix amps with good api:s are maybe equally timeless.
Today’s requirements are on intelligent, multimodal sw that can run a control device or smartphone and easily control e.g. the GC. The MPS4/MMS with e.g. Spotify does this exceptionally well at the moment, but we are without support…
I am equally bewildered that it is so difficult to find something modern inbetween a full wall mounted iPad and the GC keypads. Cheap and intelligent programmable keypads is what I would like to find. If we could find one, they could be adapted to most modern systems.
Google says Amazon Fire tablets are popular as cheap wall-mounted tablets. Haven't tried it.
I like the idea, but too large in my opinion, and too expensive.
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
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