[PJ_Rage]

I just got oblivion after loving fallout 3 and having wanted to try it for a while. One thing that is driving me insane, to the point that I'm not sure I'll even be able to play the game, is the sensitivity/control for the look/aim (right stick). There is practically no analog to it. It's "bang-bang" either moving slow, or fast.


It's like if you hold the stick between neutral and half it goes slow and between half and full it has 5 levels, so it's basically 6 total speeds it can be, and one of them is the entire region from neutral to halfway to full. I counted them. It's sad that they are countable. It's a 10-bit controller stick aren't even using a full 3 bits of it, wtf. It does it for both the horizontal and vertical axes (I think the vertical axis may have even less speeds, but this axis is less important). If I change the sensitivity in the menu it will change the speed at which it moves, but still does not offer true analog control, or alleviate my problem. It's a freakin analog stick for a reason, why the hell did they choose to make it digital stick? I have to literally modulate the digital stick by going full on full off to move around effectively.


If the game were more like fallout 3, with VATS, I could probably get through it since I wouldn't have to really aim too too much, but since it appears to be more of a FPS in that you need to aim precisely (I'm trying to be a mage where I'm shooting fire at the moment), it's extremely difficult and frustrating as is. It's also hard and annoying to move around. If I switch to 3rd person view, it is less pronounced, but then there is no way to aim? Am I missing something huge here?


Am I the only one that's found this to be annoying? I can't imagine that I am, but I've googled and looked around and found no other mention of it? It's the only FPS view game (or any game really) I can think of on ps3/ps3/ps1 (anything with analog sticks) that does this. Honestly it's the neutral-halfway that is the problem, all being the same movement speed no matter which position the stick is in within this range. If the half-full region was the region that was lumped together as just "fast," it wouldn't be as noticeable or as big of a problem.


Please tell me I'm an idiot and I'm missing something huge here because I really want to play this game - it seems awesome - but I can't get past this control problem.

 

[MrXpress]

I sorta know what you mean, in that it's really hard to move the cursor to a specific spot. In combat, I usually get around this by leaving the right stick alone and just kinda strafing with the left stick.


It really sucks when you're trying to pick up gold coins on a desk though, and there's really no way around that unfortunately.

 

[257Tony]

Does it offers KBM support? I know that would be a PITA but it would solve your issues. Don't give up on the game just yet, its definitely worht playing and offers an unbelievable amount of gaming hours.

 

[PJ_Rage]

Yes it's hard to aim and grab small things, but that is all just a result of the terrible, TERRIBLE implementation of the look stick. I honestly cannot believe they shipped this game out the door like that. It's so easy to implement full true analog, I don't know why they didn't. What an embarrassment for a GOTY game.


Does anyone know if the 360 version has this problem? I've been dying for a reason to buy a 360 and maybe this is it. I honestly do not think I can get through this game with the controls as is.


I'm not sure if it offers KBM. I guess I could plug in and try but I really just want to use a controller. At least they got the controls right for fallout 3.

 

[Leo_Ames]

I never noticed this really in the 360 version, but I barely ever used any weapons that had to be aimed accurately. However, I can remember having some difficulty pointing at smaller things like gold coins to pick up off desk, so I suspect its identical.


Works more than good enough for adjusting the camera though.

 

[confidenceman]

Remember that this was Bethesda's first foray into bringing the series into console readiness (despite what they claimed late in development, Morrowind wasn't initially conceived of as a console title). Not many long-time PC developers have made the transition as well as Bethesda has. So it makes sense there would be some awkwardness along the way.


Oblivion was the first of their games to be designed with consoles in mind (console-friendly menus, combat, and so on). Just keep fine-tuning the horizontal and vertical sensitivity until you find something that works for you. I've found that by leaving the vert-sensitivity at default and bumping up the horizontal sensitivity just a bit, I've found a workable balance. It isn't ideal, but it works.


Coincidentally, I've been replaying Oblivion the past week to get the sour taste of Fallout 3 out of my mouth (great first 30 hours, but falls to pieces after that). It still holds up remarkably well. Still not as good as Morrowind, but after finishing Fallout 3, I can safely say that Oblivion is overall better than F3.

 

[PJ_Rage]



Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman /forum/post/15526562


Remember that this was Bethesda's first foray into bringing the series into console readiness (despite what they claimed late in development, Morrowind wasn't initially conceived of as a console title). Not many long-time PC developers have made the transition as well as Bethesda has. So it makes sense there would be some awkwardness along the way.


Oblivion was the first of their games to be designed with consoles in mind (console-friendly menus, combat, and so on). Just keep fine-tuning the horizontal and vertical sensitivity until you find something that works for you. I've found that by leaving the vert-sensitivity at default and bumping up the horizontal sensitivity just a bit, I've found a workable balance. It isn't ideal, but it works.


Coincidentally, I've been replaying Oblivion the past week to get the sour taste of Fallout 3 out of my mouth (great first 30 hours, but falls to pieces after that). It still holds up remarkably well. Still not as good as Morrowind, but after finishing Fallout 3, I can safely say that Oblivion is overall better than F3.

I just don't understand it. As a programmer myself who has programmed using controllers identical to the ps3 ones (logitech version) I know that there is no reason not to offer more tuned controls other than laziness or being stupid enough to not even realize people would want it. I know exactly what they did and it's just poorly done. Not so much in the programming dept but more in the implementation. Surely they could have programmed it different it seems to be more of a case of "didn't know it was necessary."


Oh well, I guess I'm going to give it another try. I can already tell this game is like 10x more "in depth" than fallout 3. It's a bit intimidating but I think I'll grow to enjoy it. That is if I can actually get over this control thing. I guess I'm just too anal. Coming from being pretty good at COD4 and SOCOM and other FPS games, it's driving me crazy trying to aim at stuff in this game. Takes way longer than it should because it's literally impossible to aim effectively. Maybe I'll restart the game and just do a warrior or something instead of a mage, as melee weapons seem to need less aim.

 

[confidenceman]



Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ_Rage /forum/post/15526948


That is if I can actually get over this control thing. I guess I'm just too anal. Coming from being pretty good at COD4 and SOCOM and other FPS games, it's driving me crazy trying to aim at stuff in this game. Takes way longer than it should because it's literally impossible to aim effectively. Maybe I'll restart the game and just do a warrior or something instead of a mage, as melee weapons seem to need less aim.

Maybe the obvious solution is to play the PC version. Even Fallout 3 plays better on PC (and looks better). If you have a PC around that's no more than 5 or 6 years old, Oblivion should look and play great on it. There are also some great user mods that fix some of the game's biggest issues (improving distant textures, undoing the level-scaling enemies, and so on).


Bethesda still thinks and acts like a PC developer even though they sell most of their copies on consoles these days. The things that feel "wonky" on a controller are because they still design everything with the PC as the ideal version (and not just graphically). Fallout 3 just feels better than Oblivion because they use VATS to circumvent the imprecise look controls (aiming).

 

[PJ_Rage]



Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman /forum/post/15527376


Maybe the obvious solution is to play the PC version. Even Fallout 3 plays better on PC (and looks better). If you have a PC around that's no more than 5 or 6 years old, Oblivion should look and play great on it. There are also some great user mods that fix some of the game's biggest issues (improving distant textures, undoing the level-scaling enemies, and so on).


Bethesda still thinks and acts like a PC developer even though they sell most of their copies on consoles these days. The things that feel "wonky" on a controller are because they still design everything with the PC as the ideal version (and not just graphically). Fallout 3 just feels better than Oblivion because they use VATS to circumvent the imprecise look controls (aiming).

There is no way that they are aware of the problem. It is SO easy to fix even for a complete novice programmer. They are either not aware of the problem, or, for some reason, refuse to fix it.


I'm sure my PC could play it, but I prefer to game in my living room, on my couch. I've spent far too much of my life gaming in front of my computer. At least when I'm in the living room on the tv I can chat with my fiancee and still feel like part of the family instead of spending hours in the dungeon, on the computer, lol.


Out of curiosity, the game must have won GOTY on the computer, right?

 

[confidenceman]

Like I said, Bethesda still works like an old-school PC developer. Patch, patch, patch. Unfortunately, they're still so PC-focused that they rarely patch their console versions of titles.


The PS3 version of Oblivion, for example, still has the infamous "bloodgrass bug" that they never got around to fixing (though a work around was discovered).


As "easy" as it might seem to fix that basic control mapping, they just don't work that way. Frankly, I'm amazed they're even patching things for the console versions of Fallout 3. It's a sign that things might be changing over there, but I wouldn't hold my breath. It seems to be part of the studio's culture.

 

[257Tony]



Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ_Rage /forum/post/15527822


There is no way that they are aware of the problem. It is SO easy to fix even for a complete novice programmer. They are either not aware of the problem, or, for some reason, refuse to fix it.


I'm sure my PC could play it, but I prefer to game in my living room, on my couch. I've spent far too much of my life gaming in front of my computer. At least when I'm in the living room on the tv I can chat with my fiancee and still feel like part of the family instead of spending hours in the dungeon, on the computer, lol.


Out of curiosity, the game must have won GOTY on the computer, right?

You could hook up the PC to the TV in your living room and use either a wireless KBM, or an xbox 360 controller on it. If you have a good vid card in your PC it becomes a whole different game with all the texture mods you can plug in, really heps out the visuals.

 

[GulfWarVet]

I have the GOTY addition and never really suffered from it. Picked up the odd knife/fork spoon etc instead of the strawberry's!!


I just got used to it I suppose.


Must go back and finish it sometime. After getting to level46 got bored of closing gates!!

 

[so's your face]

i never really noticed a problem either... 200+ hours of gametime and loved every minute of it. guess i just got used to it as well. but it's such a good game that you shouldn't let a minor detail oversight like that shouldn't ruin the game for you. heck, the dark brotherhood questline is worth the price of the game itself.

 

[RY35AN]

Quick question regarding the Dark Brotherhood quest. Is this started by killing(murdering) someone? If so, how will it affect my standing with the Mages Guild etc...

 

[Martez]



Quote:
Originally Posted by RY35AN /forum/post/15536017


Quick question regarding the Dark Brotherhood quest. Is this started by killing(murdering) someone? If so, how will it affect my standing with the Mages Guild etc...

I did the Thieves Guild and Brotherhood quests before entering the Mage's Guild. IMO, this was best because once you are done with the Thieves Guild quests you are pretty souped up for the Mage's quests.


Also, the Mage Guild questline is short. I did it in an evening. You get a wicked staff at the end of it.

 

[DubBucket]

The slow-fast analog look was annoying at first, but as most people said, you get used to it. The leveling system was more of a bother than that. There's a lot more depth to Oblivion than Fallout. There's just so many more options in combat than "shoot-it-in-the-head-with-your-Chinese-assault-rifle." Spell combination and weapon/armor upgrades.. Man, thanks a lot.. I've been trying to get through Fallout, but now I have to go back and play Oblivion.

I haven't even opened some of my new games yet...

 

[PJ_Rage]

Did you guys do more magey or more warriory characters?

 

[DubBucket]



Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ_Rage /forum/post/15537431


Did you guys do more magey or more warriory characters?

roguey

Lots of sneaky-sneaky knife in the back. With paralyze poison/spell for backup, and self-healing


As much of a pain as it might be, you should look up a character-builder type FAQ to figure out where you want to go with it. The leveling system is crap, and can screw your game if you pick the wrong skills and the baddies power up too fast.


edit - try HERE

 

[Martez]

I had a sneaky mage. Maxed lockpicking and pickpocketing, maxed sneak, max acrobatics, and high magic. Good for keeping distance and using long-range spells. I also went with the lizard race; since they breath underwater, my strategy for a lot of the cave-based missions was to have them chase me into water and keep them from surfacing so they eventually drown

 

[PJ_Rage]

Holy insanely long and difficult to navigate character creation guide batman!


I'll try to take a look at it before I get too far.


I was planning to build a full out mage, basing everything on magic and hoping to essentially never need anything else (like a melee weapon / bow / etc). But with the aiming driving me nuts, I'm still wondering if I might just be better off going with a warrior or rogue where I can use melee weapons which require less precise aim. I'm only an hour into it if that, so it's not a huge deal to restart. Haven't had the time to play, and honestly the overwhelming depth and quirky controls are keeping me from playing it when I otherwise might. I need to wait until the weekend and dedicate some good time to it.