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Interesting read.


Quote:
Oblivion Developer: Blu-Ray is SlowerRelated:

Posted by Michael Cardiff


The latest shot in the HD-DVD / Blu-Ray battle has been fired, this time coming from Oblivion developer Bethesda Software. According to the developers of the game, the Blu-Ray drive data rates are slower than those on, for instance, the Xbox-360's DVD drive. Says Todd Howard at Bethesda:


Drive speed matters more to me [than capacity], and Blu-ray is slower.



What does this mean? Well, in general, longer load times and more cacheing to the harddrive. In fact, in order to get Oblivion to load on the PS3 as fast as it does on the Xbox-360, Bethesda duplicated key data from the game, storing it on multiple places in the disc to lower access times. There's no word on how much of the code was duplicated, but it still seems to go against Sony's message that developers need 50GB of storage space. It sounds like, if the drive were faster, the HD-DVD standard of ~30GB / disc could be adequate.
http://www.playfeed.com/index.php/pl...ower-01201337/
 

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Well they can say what they want, but it doesn't change the fact that on average the transfer rate are basically the same. Which is impressive for BD in that the PS3 has a 2x BD drive and the 360 has a 12x DVD drive. Hence the reason the PS3 is so quiet.
 

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Yea, it's been known for quite some time that the Blu-Ray drive in the PS3 is a bit slower than a DVD drive. This is why you can install some games to the Hard Drive to improve loading times. Pushing data to the end if the disc it pretty pointless since it defeats the whole purpose of using Blu-Ray...Why don't they just use a DVD?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LynxFX /forum/post/0


Apparently Bethesda hasn't gotten the memo that all PS3s have hard drives. Duplicate data on the disc, what crock of crap coding.

Crap coding? Bethesda is a very good developer, one of the best in the industry. With your logic, every developer is an idiot for not allowing the player to backup the whole game to reduce load times.
 

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Without speaking about the issue at hand (2x BD versus 12x DVD), developers are relying too heavily on disk streaming as it is. Anyone who has driven a car in Saints Row on the 360 can see that the developers did not leave themselves enough of a buffer zone to deal with minor drops in the DVD drives streaming abilities.
 

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Remember that Oblivion is a PC and Xbox360 game port to PS3. With that in mind you would think these dudes would know to port it in between with HDD and Disk drive cache. I hate how much the 360 disk drive is used since the HDD is not standard on 360. We all know that a devices with moving parts is more likely to break down eventually. I have oblivion on PC and it uses about 2+ gigs and i dont see why they can just cache all the loading points of the game to the HDD and it would not take nearly as much space as in the PC which installs the whole game.
 

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Game load times are always going to be there on consoles. Saying the 360's load time is better is akin to saying my Saturn SW2 is faster than my sisters Chevy Cavalier. Sure it is, but it sure ain't my C4 Vette. If people really cared that much about load and access times, they wouldn't play consoles or anything disc based. They do, which means it doesn't matter.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetrii /forum/post/0


Crap coding? Bethesda is a very good developer, one of the best in the industry. With your logic, every developer is an idiot for not allowing the player to backup the whole game to reduce load times.

Saying they have to duplicate data on different spots of the blu-ray disc when the entire PC install can fit on the PS3 hard drive, yeah that is crap coding.


I thought Oblivian on the PC was pretty good.
 

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Blahh blahhh. Bethesda blows.


I got elder scrolls for the original xbox, all it did was lock up.


I didnt learn the first time, so i got oblivion for the 360, all it did was lock up.


Im not falling for this crap a third time.
 

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Oblivion uses the 360's HDD to cache data. It probably does on the PS3 as well, to the same extent.


Are people saying that Oblivion should install to the PS3 HDD?


That would be setting a very bad precedence, IMO. To me, being able to use a work around rather than simply dumping the game to the PS3 HDD is an example of rather quality coding as opposed to "crap".
 

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The comments by the developer indicate he is not really familiar with the differences between DVD and BluRay drives (or more likely the reporter who wrote the article doesn't understand the issue.)


DVD is CAV (Constant Angular Velocity) - which means the read speed varies. For example a 12x DVD reads at 66Mbps on the inside track, and 132Mbps on the outside ring.


BluRay is CLV (Constant Linear Velocity) - so its a constant 72Mbps.


So sure, if Oblivion loaded data along the outside tracks of the DVD for the Xbox, they could get faster data transfers. But the comment about duplicating data to different locations on the Bluray disc makes little sense, unless Oblivion was talking about seek speeds, rather than data transfer speeds.
 

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Its pretty amazing how every person in this thread knows more about disk technology, hell HDD technology too.. than the actual developer from Bethesda knows.


You guys really should spend less time typing and put all this brain power together to create your own game on BR and show those retarded guys at Bethesda how to make a real videogame!


Or atleast be kind enough to send a group email to Bethesda and let them know they are doing things the wrong way! Im sure they would just love to hear your amazing insight.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekwan /forum/post/0


Or atleast be kind enough to send a group email to Bethesda and let them know they are doing things the wrong way! Im sure they would just love to hear your amazing insight.

Or we could just forward them Factor 5's phone number. They haven't complained with loading huge environments for Lair.


Sounds to me like Bethesda just wants to do a quick port instead of programming around each systems strengths and weaknesses. No other game company has said that they had to duplicate data to decrease load times. If that data is so important, cache it off to the hard drive. That's what it is there for and every PS3 has one.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by awdorrin /forum/post/0


The comments by the developer indicate he is not really familiar with the differences between DVD and BluRay drives (or more likely the reporter who wrote the article doesn't understand the issue.)


DVD is CAV (Constant Angular Velocity) - which means the read speed varies. For example a 12x DVD reads at 66Mbps on the inside track, and 132Mbps on the outside ring.


BluRay is CLV (Constant Linear Velocity) - so its a constant 72Mbps.


So sure, if Oblivion loaded data along the outside tracks of the DVD for the Xbox, they could get faster data transfers. But the comment about duplicating data to different locations on the Bluray disc makes little sense, unless Oblivion was talking about seek speeds, rather than data transfer speeds.

not only that, but also when you have much bigger BD discs, you can leave data uncompressed or you can use compression formats that are faster to uncompress, hence making data load faster.


People might not understand that uncompressing data being loaded slows down system to 1-2MBs when using fast uncompressor, let alone something having strong compression. Thats why resistance loads quite fast compared to PC shooters that now take ages to uncompress and load their levels, and thats straight from the hard drive too.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekwan /forum/post/0


Its pretty amazing how every person in this thread knows more about disk technology, hell HDD technology too.. than the actual developer from Bethesda knows.


You guys really should spend less time typing and put all this brain power together to create your own game on BR and show those retarded guys at Bethesda how to make a real videogame!


Or atleast be kind enough to send a group email to Bethesda and let them know they are doing things the wrong way! Im sure they would just love to hear your amazing insight.

Daekwan - 1

Reactionary fans - 0
 

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Can anyone actually read? There is no news here at all. The dvd drive on the 360 is different than the bluray on the PS3. So what? The developer claims that they can compensate for it. How is this evidence either that the PS3 is bad or that Bethseda are bad developers? Too many people here who either mindlessly attack or defend the PS3.


Can we all try to be objective?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynxFX /forum/post/0


Saying they have to duplicate data on different spots of the blu-ray disc when the entire PC install can fit on the PS3 hard drive, yeah that is crap coding.


I thought Oblivian on the PC was pretty good.

not really, question is how much of data is compressed on the hard drive... if it is a lot, then PS3 (and 360) versions can load faster than PC versions.


So many PC games are compressed these days, it takes 20-30 seconds to load levels. Heck, BF2 takes 2-3 minutes on my pretty fast PC to load multiplayer map. All of it because maps are heavily compressed.


If you can put the same data on BD drive uncompressed, or using faster decompressor, then it will be a lot faster to load, of course.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by spwolf /forum/post/0


not really, question is how much of data is compressed on the hard drive... if it is a lot, then PS3 (and 360) versions can load faster than PC versions.


So many PC games are compressed these days, it takes 20-30 seconds to load levels. Heck, BF2 takes 2-3 minutes on my pretty fast PC to load multiplayer map. All of it because maps are heavily compressed.


If you can put the same data on BD drive uncompressed, or using faster decompressor, then it will be a lot faster to load, of course.

imagine though 12X blu ray drive along with PS3 HDD upgradeablility that would be the best of both worlds......
 
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