Was just mulling this over as I'm thinking about my future home theatre setup. I will have my lcd above the fireplace which will leave me no room except for close to the ceiling to mount the centre speaker in an angled position. How bad would it be to have the center channel to the left of the tv on the shelf angled towards the center seating position? This would allow me to have the speaker closer to ear level but it would be about 3.5' to the left of center from the tv.
Off center Center Channel?
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It would be very, very, very bad. Think for a minute about what "center channel" means.
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You want to know a good one. My aunt and uncle have a living room with a fire place in the center of the front wall, but they put their rear projection TV in the left front corner. Now get this the TV is in the corner and they set up their 5.1 sound system as if the fireplace was the TV so the left speaker was to the right of the TV and to make things worse before I made them change it they had their center ontop of the TV. So in a pan across the front the sound started left but was right of the tv then the sound went left and was on the TV and then went far right. It was ridiculous, now they moved their center to above the fire place almost at the ceiling and angled it down so now the 5.1 system is centered completely around the fireplace. They wont do it right because "the living room isn't right for 5.1" and they already have the wires run thru the floor.
SO YES DO NOT PUT YOUR CENTER SPEAKER OFF CENTER IN THE ROOM. IT SOUNDS REALLY REALLY BAD. You would be better off running a phantom center than running a center that isn't centered.
SO YES DO NOT PUT YOUR CENTER SPEAKER OFF CENTER IN THE ROOM. IT SOUNDS REALLY REALLY BAD. You would be better off running a phantom center than running a center that isn't centered.
Revel M22 & C32, JBL P520WS, Revel W563 & Infinity ERS 110II, SVS SB-2000 (x2), Anthem MRX 720
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Maybe. Maybe not. Horizontal lobing is common, but not universal. There are centers out there with smooth 15 and even 30 degree off- axis response. You'd be wise to shop carefully and pay attention to measurements. Since few manufacturers publish off axis response, try looking for Tom Noussaine's measurements in Sound and Vision's online reviews, and also check out SoundStage's NRC measurements for some of their reviews.
Here's an older article by Tom on the issue:
http://theaudiocritic.com/plog/index...ogId=1&&page=3
(scroll down to "What the Industry (Even the "White Hats") Often Refuses to Tell You").
Here's an example of a center that could work, though I have no idea baout your budget or size restrictions:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/spe...tem-page3.html
Maybe. Maybe not. Horizontal lobing is common, but not universal. There are centers out there with smooth 15 and even 30 degree off- axis response. You'd be wise to shop carefully and pay attention to measurements. Since few manufacturers publish off axis response, try looking for Tom Noussaine's measurements in Sound and Vision's online reviews, and also check out SoundStage's NRC measurements for some of their reviews.
Here's an older article by Tom on the issue:
http://theaudiocritic.com/plog/index...ogId=1&&page=3
(scroll down to "What the Industry (Even the "White Hats") Often Refuses to Tell You").
Here's an example of a center that could work, though I have no idea baout your budget or size restrictions:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/spe...tem-page3.html
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Uh, this has nothing to do with horizonal lobing. Did you bother to even read the OP's posting?
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Uh, this has nothing to do with horizonal lobing. Did you bother to even read the OP's posting?
Revel M22 & C32, JBL P520WS, Revel W563 & Infinity ERS 110II, SVS SB-2000 (x2), Anthem MRX 720
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Well, I did miss the angled part
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I plead nolo contendere
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Still, 3.5 feet . . . that's not terribly off to the side. I guess it could depend on how close you're sitting to the TV. If there is a delay/syncing issue, can't that be corrected in a modern AV receiver? Flickhtguru's example is very different. There isn't such a paning issue in OP's plan.
You'd rather have the center up high than off to the side? I've heard this other option, and while it wasn't terrible, it was noticeable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesky636 /forum/post/18197104
Uh, this has nothing to do with horizonal lobing. Did you bother to even read the OP's posting?![]()
Well, I did miss the angled part
Still, 3.5 feet . . . that's not terribly off to the side. I guess it could depend on how close you're sitting to the TV. If there is a delay/syncing issue, can't that be corrected in a modern AV receiver? Flickhtguru's example is very different. There isn't such a paning issue in OP's plan.
You'd rather have the center up high than off to the side? I've heard this other option, and while it wasn't terrible, it was noticeable.
I had the same issue at my previous home. I mounted the plasma above a fireplace and then put an in-wall speaker directly above the plasma. I had built a wood frame around and outfrom the brick of the fireplace to run/hide wires. It worked great. The first few weeks it took some time to get used to, but in the end it solved the speaker placement problem.
There are speakers in the market that can be placed in the ceiling if you so choose, that can be "aimed" to give you the "center" channel.
There are speakers in the market that can be placed in the ceiling if you so choose, that can be "aimed" to give you the "center" channel.
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Draw a picture showing the approximate location of the left speaker, center speaker, tv, and right speaker and then tell everyone that you don't see a problem in this arrangement.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amicusterrae /forum/post/18197151
Well, I did miss the angled partI plead nolo contendere![]()
![]()
Still, 3.5 feet . . . that's not terribly off to the side. I guess it could depend on how close you're sitting to the TV. If there is a delay/syncing issue, can't that be corrected in a modern AV receiver? Flickhtguru's example is very different. There isn't such a paning issue in OP's plan.
You'd rather have the center up high than off to the side? I've heard this other option, and while it wasn't terrible, it was noticeable.
Draw a picture showing the approximate location of the left speaker, center speaker, tv, and right speaker and then tell everyone that you don't see a problem in this arrangement.
Revel M22 & C32, JBL P520WS, Revel W563 & Infinity ERS 110II, SVS SB-2000 (x2), Anthem MRX 720
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Um, what you mean "draw"? I'm obviously too stupid . . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesky636 /forum/post/18197218
Draw a picture showing the approximate location of the left speaker, center speaker, tv, and right speaker and then tell everyone that you don't see a problem in this arrangement.![]()
Um, what you mean "draw"? I'm obviously too stupid . . . .
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Take a piece of paper ..... using the drawing instrument of your choice (pen/pencil/crayon) ..... draw the locations of the left speaker, center speaker, tv, and right speaker based on the OP's description ..... look at it and think about it for a few minutes ..... get back to us when you are done.
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Take a piece of paper ..... using the drawing instrument of your choice (pen/pencil/crayon) ..... draw the locations of the left speaker, center speaker, tv, and right speaker based on the OP's description ..... look at it and think about it for a few minutes ..... get back to us when you are done.
I am surprised that noone has recommended getting typical floorstander in stead of a traditional center channel for this type of placement. The vertical speaker as opposed to an MTM design will provide with much better sound dispersion and may help in a situation like this.
That being said, I would surely go with a "phantom center" if I couldn't place my "center" in the center
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That being said, I would surely go with a "phantom center" if I couldn't place my "center" in the center
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My center channel is vertical and "centered" in the room, my display is 3.5 inches to the left of it, I am happy but don't think I would be if it were 3.5 feet away.
Ron
Ron
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Just don't forget to move it when lighting up the fireplace.
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Best advice yet.
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Just don't forget to move it when lighting up the fireplace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_newbie /forum/post/18197385
That being said, I would surely go with a "phantom center" if I couldn't place my "center" in the center![]()
Best advice yet.
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The "point" of a center channel speaker is to lock the sonic image of the dialogue with the on-screen "image" of the person speaking the dialogue. It is also to lock the sonic image of sounds that pan through the central image of the display with the visual image on the display.
If you have the center channel speaker off to the side of the display, there is no way the above can happen *properly*. It is far better to have the center channel speaker CENTERED above or below the display than to have it off center. If the center channel speaker cannot be positioned CENTERED on the display, then the better alternative is NO center channel speaker.
Craig
If you have the center channel speaker off to the side of the display, there is no way the above can happen *properly*. It is far better to have the center channel speaker CENTERED above or below the display than to have it off center. If the center channel speaker cannot be positioned CENTERED on the display, then the better alternative is NO center channel speaker.
Craig
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It is likely that for most people, including the OP, this is the point of a center channel speaker.
Some of us have our speakers optimized for music, as God intended.
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Ron
It is likely that for most people, including the OP, this is the point of a center channel speaker.
Some of us have our speakers optimized for music, as God intended.
Ron
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I can think of worse places to put my display than over the fireplace but not many. Change where you put your display and then your center channel issue goes away. Sitting with my head pointing 45 degress up in the air with the dialog coming out of the side of the fireplace isn't what I would choose to do when setting up my HT. But if I HAD too I'd go without a center channel.
I can think of worse places to put my display than over the fireplace but not many. Change where you put your display and then your center channel issue goes away. Sitting with my head pointing 45 degress up in the air with the dialog coming out of the side of the fireplace isn't what I would choose to do when setting up my HT. But if I HAD too I'd go without a center channel.
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A "centered" center channel is even more important for music, (if you are going to use one.) A 2-channel system uses dual-mono information, (information that is identical in both the L & R channels), to provide a "central" image. This is often used for voices and for centrally located instruments. If you use any of the "logic" systems (PLIIX, Neo:6, Neural Surround, etc.), to extract multiple channels from a 2-channel source, you want the central image to image from the center, not from off-center.
If you play back music encoded in a multi-channel format, (DTS, DVD-A, SACD, etc.), it will already have the central image routed to the center channel. In that case, you definitely want the center channel speaker "centered" on the listening position, (and hopefully deployed strategically between the L & R speakers.)
Either way, for music or for HT, it is essential that the center speaker is centered.
Craig
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldoCombs /forum/post/18197754
It is likely that for most people, including the OP, this is the point of a center channel speaker.
Some of us have our speakers optimized for music, as God intended.![]()
Ron
A "centered" center channel is even more important for music, (if you are going to use one.) A 2-channel system uses dual-mono information, (information that is identical in both the L & R channels), to provide a "central" image. This is often used for voices and for centrally located instruments. If you use any of the "logic" systems (PLIIX, Neo:6, Neural Surround, etc.), to extract multiple channels from a 2-channel source, you want the central image to image from the center, not from off-center.
If you play back music encoded in a multi-channel format, (DTS, DVD-A, SACD, etc.), it will already have the central image routed to the center channel. In that case, you definitely want the center channel speaker "centered" on the listening position, (and hopefully deployed strategically between the L & R speakers.)
Either way, for music or for HT, it is essential that the center speaker is centered.
Craig
Thank you, this is the perfect response. As I said I'm mulling over a future install, this is not my current set up. I was simply debating which would be the lesser of two evils, having it off center by 3' and at a decent vertical level or having it centered but pretty much touching the ceiling.
Your sig is very apropos to my situation as I've heard that the builder of my house designed the basement/rec room layout as an after thought to attract buyers in a slow market and as such the layout is bad in pretty much every configuration. This relates to Lhasa's comments as well.
Having the tv over the fireplace (using a tilt mount) would be the best use of space for the basement which is a multi purpose room.
Thank you, this is the perfect response. As I said I'm mulling over a future install, this is not my current set up. I was simply debating which would be the lesser of two evils, having it off center by 3' and at a decent vertical level or having it centered but pretty much touching the ceiling.
Your sig is very apropos to my situation as I've heard that the builder of my house designed the basement/rec room layout as an after thought to attract buyers in a slow market and as such the layout is bad in pretty much every configuration. This relates to Lhasa's comments as well.
Having the tv over the fireplace (using a tilt mount) would be the best use of space for the basement which is a multi purpose room.
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Then I'd go with a really nice pair of mains and run in phantom mode. Better no center than one mounted where you have described.
Do a search for phantom mode. A lot of people run this way and are very happy. Is it a compromise? Sure. But so is a side mounted center channel.
Then I'd go with a really nice pair of mains and run in phantom mode. Better no center than one mounted where you have described.
Do a search for phantom mode. A lot of people run this way and are very happy. Is it a compromise? Sure. But so is a side mounted center channel.
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