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#### ChrisWiggles

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sort of what i just said?

#### FrantzM

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Quote:
 Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles sort of what i just said?

#### JorgeLopez11

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This thread made me remember some of my thermodynamics courses at the university
Quote:
 Ice is colder than 32 degrees. How much colder depends on where it came from, ie the freezer temperature. When one dumps it in water, the water exchanges energy with the ice, so the ice changes state, and the water gets colder. The water can get no colder than 32, or it changes state to solid. Thus, a mixed phase solution exists. A well mixed liquid portion will have a temperature close to the freezing point. The solid phase developes a temperate gradient, with the outside being at 32, the core colder, and the cube slowly melting, and moving the whole system toward equilibrium. Yet, the core of the ice cube will be colder than 32 degrees, until it is close to being completely melted.
I think what Swampfox is trying to explain is the fact that solid water (ice) can coexist with liquid water depending on a precise pressure-temperature condition.

In fact ice can even exist at temperatures higher than 32F.... if enough pressure is applied to the system.

Anyway, I think this subject can be easily understood if we take a look at the the water phase diagram

Please notice that there are 11 diferent solid phases whose existence depends on a pressure-temperature relationship

In fact, even liquid-solid-gaseous water can coexist at a precise temperature-pressure condition known as a "triple point"

This is the diagram:

http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/images/phase.gif

and this is the site where you can read a thorough explanation on the subject

http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/phase.html

It's curious.... Now that I'm taking a second look at the diagram, I think I may design a pressurised chamber (full of tap water) with five-way binding posts (in and out) properly installed and ready to insert some cheap cables. Then I can connect those cables to my not-so-hi-end audio gear and let the chamber gain some 1,000 pounds per square inch.

For a second I'm pretty sure I might hear angels playing sweet music... before I get a bad short circuit and my audio gear completely ruined

#### Alimentall

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Excellence, I don't think this has been very well explained, but I think your friend's opinion is based on a relatively misunderstood concept in physics which is the fact that, in order to go from ice to water, the ice has to "ingest" an inordinate amount of heat energy. IOW, it's not a linear system. As you add calories, there is a linear relationship with tempature UNTIL you hit the temparature line that delineates gas, solid liquid. Therefore, you have to add a much higher amount of calories to go from 31 degrees to 33 degrees than to go from 29 to 31 or from 33 to 35. This acts as sort of a "buffer". So, for instance, if you are at 40 degrees, and you toss in an ice cube, you will get a temperature gradient between those extremes. However, it is possible to have an ice cube in water and get a perfectly even "temperature" even though each molecule of water will have different amount of energy stored within it. IOW, you can have a massive differential in energy storage between different containers of water and you can call all of them "32 degrees". At each layer between solid, liquid, gas, there's a layer where the linearity of the system changes. Almost like "gears". The system is perfectly linear above and below those points, then hits a state of "pause" where the rules above and below don't seem to apply, then it goes right back to normal. At least, this is how I translate what I learned from college physics.

#### Alimentall

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BTW, a friend of mine insisted that crogenically freezing a CD would improve the sound and my logic center cut in and said "QUE?!?" So he demonstrated the difference with the same CD, one froze, one not, and, to my surprise, I could easily tell the difference. Unfortunately, I was "wrong". Each frozen disc sounded obviously worse with more "hash" in the signal. He said I was hearing the "space" between the notes, but what I was more likely hearing was.........error correction. I mean, if you have a list of data and you set it on fire or freeze it, or soak it in water or crinkle it up in a ball, does that make it more or less accurate?

#### FrantzM

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Quote:
 Originally Posted by JorgeLopez11 This thread made me remember some of my thermodynamics courses at the university I think what Swampfox is trying to explain is the fact that solid water (ice) can coexist with liquid water depending on a precise pressure-temperature condition. ............................................. .......................................... It's curious.... Now that I'm taking a second look at the diagram, I think I may design a pressurised chamber ......... For a second I'm pretty sure I might hear angels playing sweet music... before I get a bad short circuit and my audio gear completely ruined :mrgreen:

Jorge

I tried to warn you... Run before it is too late.. then considering the above post.. you are already lost...

#### darinp2

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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Alimentall BTW, a friend of mine insisted that crogenically freezing a CD would improve the sound and my logic center cut in and said "QUE?!?" So he demonstrated the difference with the same CD, one froze, one not, and, to my surprise, I could easily tell the difference. Unfortunately, I was "wrong". Each frozen disc sounded obviously worse with more "hash" in the signal. He said I was hearing the "space" between the notes, but what I was more likely hearing was.........error correction.
Dan Miller of Marantz told a story like this that I think was at a show where somebody was giving out disks and you could get the regular one of the one that had been frozen. I believe he knew somebody who looked into this and found exactly what you mentioned. The freezing had caused the error correction to go into overdrive and so it did sound different.

--Darin

#### Jetlag

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Are you using plain old tap water or expensive bottled water? We all know this could make a major difference as the expensive water would enhance the boiling process tremendously. I'm fairly certain that the country of origin of the bottled water would also be a determinate variable.

#### Swampfox

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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Jetlag Are you using plain old tap water or expensive bottled water? We all know this could make a major difference as the expensive water would enhance the boiling process tremendously. I'm fairly certain that the country of origin of the bottled water would also be a determinate variable.
I know this is a joke, and your being sarcastic. . . Yet, the origin of water could lead to differences in the mineral content which could change the boiling point.

#### CANNON-FODDER

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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Swampfox I know this is a joke, and your being sarcastic. . . Yet, the origin of water could lead to differences in the mineral content which could change the boiling point.
Sort of like Astrology/Birth-Signs and the recent work involving womb conditions and mother's diets [pre-refrigeration]...

v/r,

C-F

#### KBK

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It's the aliens and their damned pyramid landing sites, man. Pass the bong.

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