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Thanks for the link. Too bad that was the absolutely worst (if you call it a preview) video commentary of a TV I have ever seen.
Between the 1st half being a Vizio commercial that tells us nothing and the last quarter being a commercial for a 'toy phone' (Goldstar no less), the only worthwhile part is the actual unboxing that lasted 45 seconds in the middle of the clip.
I did find one thing very interesting about the video. At 4 min 26 sec. you can see the actual pixel structure. The red 'F' in Netflix clear shows that it is a Sharp panel because they are the only panel makers I know of who use an alternating sub-pixel approach to aid in adjusting pixel brightness. Look at the very top edge of the F in full screen 1080P and you can clearly see the alternating upper/lower sub-pixel.
 

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Why would bloom on an IPS panel be 5 times worse than a VA panel?


It's all a question of output intensity and panel type.


If that picture is from the P55 (IPS panel), the amount of bloom seen should be about 5 times worse than what that same image shows on one of the other Ps with a VA panel (dark purple of halo/bloom zone will be only 1/5th as bright).


Someone with a VA-type panel would have to comment whether that level of bloom is noticeable or not, but it is certain to be far less noticeable...
 

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You are the second person I have seen mention this price for a 5-year warranty. When I search Amazon for 5-year Squaretrade warranties, the warranty for $2250-2500 cost sets is $230.65.

What am I missing?
You are looking at Amazon pricing. The lower pricing being quoted is buying the ST warranty thru Costco.

$299.99 TV's < $500
$59.99 TV's $500 - $1000
$89.99 TV's > $1000

http://www.costco.com/CatalogSearch...=10701&langId=-1&refine=&keyword=square+trade
 

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Here's a screenshot of Destiny's loading screen that shows the local dimming glow. It's the only time I've noticed that effect so far.

It's all a question of output intensity and panel type.


If that picture is from the P55 (IPS panel), the amount of bloom seen should be about 5 times worse than what that same image shows on one of the other Ps with a VA panel (dark purple of halo/bloom zone will be only 1/5th as bright).


Someone with a VA-type panel would have to comment whether that level of bloom is noticeable or not, but it is certain to be far less noticeable...
This picture is of a P60 according to Compeau's previous posts, so it (presumably) has the VA panel instead of the IPS.

I would actually be interested to see what this looks like with some slight bias lighting in the room, to see if it becomes much less noticeable.
 

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Discussion Starter #3,045
Why would bloom on an IPS panel be 5 times worse than a VA panel?

Native contrast of an IPS panel is ~1000:1 versus native contrast on a VA panel which is ~5000:1.

Bloom is caused by light leaking through 'OFF' pixels in areas where the backlight is illuminated to allow for some bright 'ON' pixels.

So the intensity / noticeability of bloom/halo is directly related to native contrast ratio - the light leaking through 'OFF' pixels of a VA panel will be 1/5th the intensity of the light leaking through 'OFF' pixels of a VA panel.

Anyone interested in FALD and the P Series for dark-room viewing should stay away from the P55... (which is the TV from which that picture demonstrating bloom was taken from).
 

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Native contrast of an IPS panel is ~1000:1 versus native contrast on a VA panel which is ~5000:1.

Bloom is caused by light leaking through 'OFF' pixels in areas where the backlight is illuminated to allow for some bright 'ON' pixels.

So the intensity / noticeability of bloom/halo is directly related to native contrast ratio - the light leaking through 'OFF' pixels of a VA panel will be 1/5th the intensity of the light leaking through 'OFF' pixels of a VA panel.

Anyone interested in FALD and the P Series for dark-room viewing should stay away from the P55... (which is the TV from which that picture demonstrating bloom was taken from).
What about the worst of both worlds - dark room viewing while off angle. Would the 55 in theory close the gap or perhaps even perform better where bloom is concerned as my understanding is that a VA panel leaks more as you get off center than an IPS panel does?
 

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This picture is of a P60 according to Compeau's previous posts, so it (presumably) has the VA panel instead of the IPS.

I would actually be interested to see what this looks like with some slight bias lighting in the room, to see if it becomes much less noticeable.

Went back and checked and your right - P60 (VA-Type). So this same image on the P55 (IPS-type) should show bloom/halo that is 5 times worse.

When posting pictures, it is a good idea to post the specific TV the pictures have been taken from to avoid exactly this kind of confusion...
 

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Sorry for the confusion. This has not been confirmed and is only speculation based off my experience with the m series. I do believe that the P65 will be the best tv of the bunch (again just my speculation) if you already plan to get the P65 then I suggest that you just buy it and see for yourself. If it is everything that you wanted then keep it and enjoy and don't look back.
Don't you think it is premature if not a stretch to compare the P to M and to suggest it is the best? Seems to be more hands on with the 70" at the moment with some very good feedback. At this point I don't know which is the best, in part because everyone has different expectations for what they enjoy and what they can economically justify.
 

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What about the worst of both worlds - dark room viewing while off angle. Would the 55 in theory close the gap or perhaps even perform better where bloom is concerned as my understanding is that a VA panel leaks more as you get off center than an IPS panel does?

I've read that when local dimming is brought into the equation, all of the advantages IPS panels offer in terms of increased off-angle-viewing performance are lost, so you with as well stick to VA.

For increased off-angle viewing in dark-room environments, plasma (or OLED) is probably the best option...
 

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This picture is of a P60 according to Compeau's previous posts, so it (presumably) has the VA panel instead of the IPS.

I would actually be interested to see what this looks like with some slight bias lighting in the room, to see if it becomes much less noticeable.
It is less noticeable during the day. I'll try to get a picture today (either with daylight or with room lighting).
 

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I can't believe how flimsy that "shipping box" looks like and the minimum amount of protection offered by four small pieces of styrofoam placed on each corner of the screen leaving most of the screen area totally unprotected ! What was Vizio thinking of ?
I'm guessing you have not purchased an LCD / LCD TV in a while. The Vizio packaging IMO was FAR better then my last flat panel TV and yes, this lift-off sliding box top, no cutting the top open arrangement is the current standard.

Personally, I would never have TV shipped, I always purchase locally. The thought of having a large panel smacked around by (insert shipping company here) and expecting it to arrive without damage, physically or electrically is in my opinion, unrealistic. Stand one of these boxes upright with the TV in it and see how easy it is to knock it over. How many times did it fall over in the truck, dock, etc.

I've watched people flop these on the push carts at the warehouse clubs and every time I hear the "smack" I cringe. I often wonder how many of these are DOA when they get home.

Footnote: I do work in the electronics industry
 

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Don't you think it is premature if not a stretch to compare the P to M and to suggest it is the best? Seems to be more hands on with the 70" at the moment with some very good feedback. At this point I don't know which is the best, in part because everyone has different expectations for what they enjoy and what they can economically justify.
I've got an M and a P, granted they are different sizes (49" vs 60"). The resolution difference is certainly noticeable but I haven't played with them enough to do a complete comparison. Maybe one day I'll put them side by side and see what I can pass along to you guys.
 

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To be fair, I've bought my large tv on amazon on more than one occasion and they've always setup the tv in my home and insured it powers on correctly before leaving. When I needed to exchange it due to bad screen uniformity they even came back, setup the new one, and took the old one away. From my perspective it saved me trying to figure out how to fit the 65in TV into my car on multiple occasions.
 

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Don't you think it is premature if not a stretch to compare the P to M and to suggest it is the best? Seems to be more hands on with the 70" at the moment with some very good feedback. At this point I don't know which is the best, in part because everyone has different expectations for what they enjoy and what they can economically justify.
If you will read back though the last few pages you will see how I can to this conclusion. Normally I would agree with you but if you take the time and read through the M series models thread you will find the exact same complaints about the p70 that you do in the p60 and p70 thread. I owned both the m60 and m65 and have seen a couple calibrated m70 sets. M65 is much much better. You may be right it might be a little premature but at this point given the comments of each set I would be willing to state with limited uncertainty that the P65 overall viewing experience and picture quality will be determined slightly above that of the P70. If I'm wrong then I will happily admit it but I don't think I am.
 

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Have any owners of the P series run an upscaling Oppo 103 or 103D to the #5HDMI input and if so how was the PQ. Did it add artifacts? Wondering how a blue ray looked as well as cable 1080i looked upscaled. Thanks in advance.
 

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The consistency falls apart with the 55" sets. The have the B2 designation and from what has been reported, all of the 55's are IPS panels and AUO does not appear to be the supplier. All of the other B2 sets regardless of size appear to be AUO VA panels.
Wistron is the ODM assembler, NOT the panel manufacturer. They may get the panel from a single source for the size and model series Vizio directs them to use for a given design. They are not wedded to a particular panel maker, but it appears that Vizio specifies a certain panel for a given size in the line.


That is consistent with a company having an ODM relationship with the assembler. The assembler works to the named company's specifications; an OEM has off-the-shelf product that the named company re-labels as their own product.
 

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Interesting, I'll guess maybe Harmonix was attempting to account for the wireless controller lag, with varying degrees of success, in the different games. Perhaps I'll recheck myself in the different ones I have and see if I find the same thing on my P70 (so far I only used RB3). :)

Hopefully you have Lego, since its results seem to match the Bodnar device. I don't play any of the others any more--I never played Green Day at all, not being the biggest fan; I liked about 10 of their songs to start and probably identified another 10 that I didn't know that I enjoyed playing in RB. I've exported all of the various games songs to HDD except for The Beatles, which doesn't export, so I have to load up that disc to play those.

Who knows exactly how they use those numbers in the games. Intuitively you'd play the video or audio first depending up which had the greater lag, then play the other after waiting for the delta between their lags and then expect the user's input at the end of the greater lag. All of the games except for one reported about 20 ms audio lag; RB2 consistently reported around 80 ms for that number. Whatever.
 

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Hopefully you have Lego, since its results seem to match the Bodnar device. I don't play any of the others any more--I never played Green Day at all, not being the biggest fan; I liked about 10 of their songs to start and probably identified another 10 that I didn't know that I enjoyed playing in RB. I've exported all of the various games songs to HDD except for The Beatles, which doesn't export, so I have to load up that disc to play those.

Who knows exactly how they use those numbers in the game. All of the games except for one reported about 20 ms audio lag; RB2 consistently reported around 80 ms for that number. Whatever.
I believe I have LRB. After RB3 came out I know I exported songs from all the different RB's I had and never touched them again, but I don't believe I actually sold it / traded it in. I'll know for sure when I get home tonight and check the media cabinet though. :D
 

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Went back and checked and your right - P60 (VA-Type). So this same image on the P55 (IPS-type) should show bloom/halo that is 5 times worse.

When posting pictures, it is a good idea to post the specific TV the pictures have been taken from to avoid exactly this kind of confusion...
"should show"? Let's try to keep it factual. Please post up the same image on the 55" IPS and one of the VA panels, both adjusted identically and then let discuss "bloom".
 
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