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Discussion Starter #3,221
It does this on my 60P.

Thanks. So Clear Action bug/quality issue is confirmed on at east some 70" and 60" Vizio Ps...

What about 65" - any owners seeing the same issue when Clear Action is activated?

Also, would help to have any owners of P60 or P70 who are not seeing this issue chime in...
 

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Are there any reports of a similar issue with either 65" or 60" owners?


And as far as the 70", seems like this issue is common enough that it is a pretty widespread quality problem - are ALL P70 owners seeing the same thing (which indicates a bug, as opposed to a quality control issue) or are there some owner who do not see this effect when Clear Action is enabled (which would indicate a Quality Control problem)?
No, I have no such problem on my P70 and I it would have been easy to notice given I've already watched some hockey on my set, where the ice makes any kind of luminance non-uniformity really obvious (such as this would be or DSE on sets that have it). :p
 

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To all,

Being a neophyte, I'd appreciate some help making a go/no-go decision. Please understand, this is not a criticism, I'm looking for some expert opinions. Here's the overview:

I have an existing 52" TV and definitely want to upgrade in size to 70" due to age creeping up and sitting 15' away from the TV is making it difficult to read and see small details even on HD (1080P blue ray). Now, given that, I'm not a videophile, I just want a good TV, great picture and significant game play by my wife and son (PS3, 4, Xbox and Wii). So, given the state of the art (I still don't understand the 4/4/4 chroma issue but I'll go do the investigation), I have the following questions:

1) At 15', will 4K actually provide a difference in quality I'll be able to see?
2) FALD is definitely a feature I'd love to have if it gives me better blacks (I can tell even at 15' the difference between black and the actual grey screen I get today)
3) With the current lack of 4K material (I do have netflix and a 50 down/5 up connection so streaming is not a problem), is it worth it to jump in at this time or hold off for two years and wait for the specs and capabilities improve?
4) 3D is not a need/want. No one in the family wants/needs it and I only have one working eye so it would be lost on me anyway. So, lack of 3D in this iteration of TVs is of no concern

I'd appreciate some non-emotional (not trying to start a war here), but is 15' to far to make the additional cost worth it.? Should I jump in and get the TV and see the improvement, or spend 66% of that on a 1080P TV and wait for the technology to mature (money is not a major issue, while no one wants to spend more than they need, I tend to keep tvs for years so the additional cost over time is not a big deal)? It's the distance that concerns me most, would I even see the improvement.

Thanks all,

Get a 70" M (or possibly the 65" - check the Owner's thread, I believe the 65" is supposed to be better), bring it home and audition it, and if you are happy, you're good to go. If not, trade it in for a P70 (or P65) and see if the improvements in picture quality from the additional dimming zones justify the added cost.


From what others have reported, the P appears to have a distinct advantage as far as gaming performance...
 

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Clear Action is unlikely to make much of a difference unless watching fast-action sports. And to have any real effect, it needs to be used in conjunction with Frame Interpolation (Clear Motion or whatever Vizio calls it).
I have to disagree with this - Clear Action makes a big difference in certain areas even without Smooth Motion Effect. One area where it should be relatively obvious that isn't just a test pattern will be the scrolling text on tickers on the bottom of many channels. With neither on, the text will be somewhat blurry; with both on, it'll be super-smooth and clear. With just SME on, it should be very smooth but a bit blurred; with just CA on, it should be clear but perhaps slightly choppy-looking (but that's very nitpicky because 60 fps animation won't ever look real choppy ;) ).

For more of an explanation of what the two settings do and how they improve motion resolution perception on an LCD, check this page out. Clear Action = Vizio's name for backlight strobing; Smooth Motion Effect = Vizio's name for frame interpolation.
 

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I'm actually fairly pleased with my 55" with Buzz's calibration numbers plugged in, now that I've learned to adjust the backlight upward to get whites. (I decided to enable Clear Action--though I'm not sure that I see the effect other than dimness--so I needed extra backlight to compensate for that as well).
Don't confuse highly luminated White with correctness. It isn't. To the uninitiated, it takes a week or two of viewing before the brain accepts a proper picture as being "correct".

"White" is equal parts red, green, and blue. Turning up the back light does not make it more white. It only makes it "brighter" by increasing luminance. Shades of Gray are also equal parts RGB and is nothing more than the brightest white with less luminance. Continue lowering luminance and eventually Black is reached.

In my P55 Day Mode, back light set at 42 yields 57 Foot Lamberts. 50 FtL is normally considered bright enough for most daytime viewing. In an extremely bright room as much as 70 FtL might be required but to go beyond that you might as well watch in Vivid mode.

My Night mode has back light at 25 which produces 35 FtL. Although there are no strict standards, Night is better set at 30 FtL because this is about where movies and Blu-Rays are mastered.
 

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Discussion Starter #3,226 (Edited)
No, I have no such problem on my P70 and I it would have been easy to notice given I've already watched some hockey on my set, where the ice makes any kind of luminance non-uniformity really obvious (such as this would be or DSE on sets that have it). :p

Thanks - so that pretty much confirms that it is a quality issue affecting the P70 and P60. Will be interesting to see if P65 owners have any instances of the same problem...

Since you've watched Hockey with Clear Action ON, can you confirm that the motion performance is significantly improved only when Frame Interpolation (Clear Motion or whatever) is ON as well?


Here is the sequence I would expect in terms of best motion performance:

Worst: Clear Action OFF and Clear Motion OFF (60Hz)

Better: Clear Action ON and Clear Motion OFF (80Hz equivalent, avoids LCD blur)

Even Better: Clear Action OFF and Clear Motion ON (120Hz equivalent)

Best: Clear Action ON and Clear Motion ON (240Hz equivalent)
 

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Discussion Starter #3,227
I have to disagree with this - Clear Action makes a big difference in certain areas even without Smooth Motion Effect. One area where it should be relatively obvious that isn't just a test pattern will be the scrolling text on tickers on the bottom of many channels. With neither on, the text will be somewhat blurry; with both on, it'll be super-smooth and clear. With just SME on, it should be very smooth but a bit blurred; with just CA on, it should be clear but perhaps slightly choppy-looking (but that's very nitpicky because 60 fps animation won't ever look real choppy ;) ).

For more of an explanation of what the two settings do and how they improve motion resolution perception on an LCD, check this page out. Clear Action = Vizio's name for backlight strobing; Smooth Motion Effect = Vizio's name for frame interpolation.

I thing this just pretty much confirms the questions I asked you in my most recent post (which I was no doubt typing at the same time :).

Yes, Clear Action alone (without Clear Motion) provides some improvement in motion performance, but less than Clear Motion alone (without Clear Action).
 

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Thanks - so that pretty much confirms that it is a quality issue affecting the P70 and P60. Will be interesting to see if P65 owners have any instances of the same problem...

Since you've watched Hockey with Clear Action ON, can you confirm that the motion performance is significantly improved only when Frame Interpolation (Clear Motion or whatever) is ON as well?


Here is the sequence I would expect in terms of best motion performance:

Worst: Clear Action OFF and Clear Motion OFF (60Hz)

Marginally better: Clear Action ON and Clear Motion OFF (a bit better than 60Hz)

Better: Clear Action OFF and Clear Motion ON (120Hz or possibly even 240Hz equivalent)

Best: Clear Action ON and Clear Motion ON (240Hz or possibly even 480Hz equivalent)
Yes, that would be the correct ordering for these, on the given assumption that SME never made mistakes in creating its interpolated frames. Unfortunately that isn't the case, as others have found (issues such as disappearing footballs, etc. ;) ). I would call CA on, SME off more of an improvement than 'marginally better' though - for the parts of the picture where motion blur caused by the LCD's sample-and-hold is actually rather noticeable, CA without frame interpolation makes a huge difference in motion clarity. :)
 

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Does your backlight actually get brighter when you have CA enabled? I ask because if I enable CA, the backlight setting, although I can slide it, makes zero difference in the output.

The backlight control works fine when I have CA enabled. What I'm not seeing today that I did yesterday is the display dimming when I enable CA.

Is there anything that I could play where the effect of CA should be evident? I couldn't see any difference playing around with in in that UFO website test (http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates).
 

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I still can't believe we don't have more info on the 65"! With all the owners of a 65" that have already posted, I am surprised none of them have a loupe or magnifying glass.
 

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Don't confuse highly luminated White with correctness. It isn't. To the uninitiated, it takes a week or two of viewing before the brain accepts a proper picture as being "correct".

With your original settings on my screen no color which I could perceive as being "white" ever appeared. I put a sheet of bright white paper up next to a picture of snow on a mountainside on a sunny, cloudless day and there is nothing which come close to that color--all of the snow is gray, when, to my mind, it should be as bright white as if I were actually there looking at that mountainside.
 

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P55 Motion

On the P55 I tested, motion was considerably improved by setting Smooth Motion Effect > Low

No other combination of Smooth Motion Effect and Clear Action produced better results.
 

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I have to disagree with this - Clear Action makes a big difference in certain areas even without Smooth Motion Effect. One area where it should be relatively obvious that isn't just a test pattern will be the scrolling text on tickers on the bottom of many channels. With neither on, the text will be somewhat blurry; with both on, it'll be super-smooth and clear. With just SME on, it should be very smooth but a bit blurred; with just CA on, it should be clear but perhaps slightly choppy-looking (but that's very nitpicky because 60 fps animation won't ever look real choppy ;) ).

For more of an explanation of what the two settings do and how they improve motion resolution perception on an LCD, check this page out. Clear Action = Vizio's name for backlight strobing; Smooth Motion Effect = Vizio's name for frame interpolation.
I agree - Clear Action ON Smooth Motion OFF is now my everyday setting for all content (although on a bright afternoon I may turn Clear Action off to get more brightness). I love how movement is smoothed out, without damaging the integrity of the original image (as Smooth Motion does). The benefits of Clear Action are really noticeable in gaming and when watching sports.
 

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With your original settings on my screen no color which I could perceive as being "white" ever appeared. I put a sheet of bright white paper up next to a picture of snow on a mountainside on a sunny, cloudless day and there is nothing which come close to that color--all of the snow is gray, when, to my mind, it should be as bright white as if I were actually there looking at that mountainside.
As all calibrators will tell you, copying settings from another display seldom produces the same results. It's simple.

Edit to add - but turning up the luminance is NOT a way to make white whiter.
 

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I had the M70 for about 6 weeks before I traded it in for a P70.
How was and how is the uniformity on both? Gray & black?
.
Actually a while back I was browsing the TV's in Costco with a friend and he we were chatting about one of the bargain 4k tv's when we noticed a Samsung rep adjusting the Samsung TVs on display. I don't know how many other manufacturers do this but at least the Samsung's have been "tweaked".
With these sets set in "retail mode", I believe they all reset themselves with a power cycle so any changes to the settings are lost.

.
 

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Discussion Starter #3,236
Yes, that would be the correct ordering for these, on the given assumption that SME never made mistakes in creating its interpolated frames. Unfortunately that isn't the case, as others have found (issues such as disappearing footballs, etc. ;) ). I would call CA on, SME off more of an improvement than 'marginally better' though - for the parts of the picture where motion blur caused by the LCD's sample-and-hold is actually rather noticeable, CA without frame interpolation makes a huge difference in motion clarity. :)

Thanks - I will adjust my earlier post.


This more or less confirms that the '240Hz Effective Refresh Rate' is only achieved when CA is on (which it should always be whenever possible to avoid blur caused by the slow transition of the LCD pixels...).
 

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P55 Motion

On the P55 I tested, motion was considerably improved by setting Smooth Motion Effect > Low

No other combination of Smooth Motion Effect and Clear Action produced better results.
Except low adds a noticeable amount of SOE. This has been the only TV I owned that would add SOE in its lowest setting deeming any level unusable really unless watching sports or a live broadcast. So for a movie watcher, the results of this is meaningless and a terrible implementation on Vizio's behalf.
 

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P55 Motion

On the P55 I tested, motion was considerably improved by setting Smooth Motion Effect > Low

No other combination of Smooth Motion Effect and Clear Action produced better results.
That seems counter intuitive from all the claims, but always nice to have a true expert verify this.
 

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Except low adds a noticeable amount of SOE. This has been the only TV I owned that would add SOE in its lowest setting deeming any level unusable really unless watching sports or a live broadcast. So for a movie watcher, the results of this is meaningless and a terrible implementation on Vizio's behalf.
My reference sources are 24fps. Cross screen motion and camera panning both horizontal and verticle were excellent.
 

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As all calibrators will tell you, copying settings from another display seldom produces the same results. It's simple.

That's what I've been saying--I'm sure that your settings produced natural looking whites on the 55" that you worked on, when viewed in a daylit room with the backlight set at 42, it just doesn't on mine.

Edit to add - but turning up the luminance is NOT a way to make white whiter.

I don't have the equipment or the expertise to correct these settings. Turning up the backlight created a reasonable result, much better than any of the presets. Your CMS tables with backlight set to 80 (with CA on) is about half as bright as Vivid with backlight turned down to 80 (from the default 100); all of the "Cool" and "Computer" color-temp based presets are way too "blue-shifted" and unnatural. Until I find someone else to perform another calibration on my television this will do.
 
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