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Buzzard, great write up. Looking forward to your end results. This tv, although not perfect has been such a great bang for the buck. Hope you find that you can iron most of the issues, then I'll be ready to steal some settings. See if they are better than Zmads. Haha I hope it might be closer, we shall see. Thanks for the hard work!
Except for the flesh tone issue it's a very nice display. Googer found a work around for it and I'll have to dig up his calibration how to post to see how he did it. It really shouldn't be this way and it shows poor color tracking. The P55 with it's IPS panel tracked very well but the blacks sucked. Lotsa trade offs.

Here is the P60 RGB separation as measured with LightSpace. A good tracking display should have R, G, & B overlaying the black line. The VA panel is way off yet except for flesh it looks very good with real world content. Go figure..... :confused:

 

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Something I forgot to mention. I'm running FW 1.0.0 and will keep the P60 off the Internet until I finish the initial work. By that time I'll have a good database to compare with a newer FW version.
 

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Advise needed

I am sorry for posting this in this thread. I am an amateur, I think the 47" Vizio I have from 4 years ago looks good.
I have a problem:

Buy the 70" P series
- Better picture
- More $$$ 2400
- Not enough content online
- Viewing distance is 9 feet!!!!!
- Concern for 1080p content being fuzzy when upconverted

Or

Buy the 70" M series (2013)
- 3D (I like it, I have 3TB content)
- Cheaper $ 1700
- Hopefully 1080p doesnt look pixelated at this size


What do you think?
Thank you for your time.


Also I amazed that there are no "Professional" (ie cnet and rest) reviews up of this TV????
 

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Except for the flesh tone issue it's a very nice display. Googer found a work around for it and I'll have to dig up his calibration how to post to see how he did it. It really shouldn't be this way and it shows poor color tracking. The P55 with it's IPS panel tracked very well but the blacks sucked. Lotsa trade offs.

Here is the P60 RGB separation as measured with LightSpace. A good tracking display should have R, G, & B overlaying the black line. The VA panel is way off yet except for flesh it looks very good with real world content. Go figure..... :confused:

If your photos showing skin tones are accurate as to what it looks like in-person, it looks like you're using too much red hue to correct the red saturation sweep, which does in fact help on the pure saturation sweep (IIRC I was able to get the entire lower part of the red saturation sweep down to < 2 dE and even 100% down to around 3.5 dE), but doing so pulls skin tones too far towards magenta (the skin color swatches in the color checker went from dE's in the 1-3 range where I settled on up to as high as like 15, as did other colors in the orange and yellow-orange range :eek:).
 

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If your photos showing skin tones are accurate as to what it looks like in-person, it looks like you're using too much red hue to correct the red saturation sweep, which does in fact help on the pure saturation sweep (IIRC I was able to get the entire lower part of the red saturation sweep down to < 2 dE and even 100% down to around 3.5 dE), but doing so pulls skin tones too far towards magenta (the skin color swatches in the color checker went from dE's in the 1-3 range where I settled on up to as high as like 15, as did other colors in the orange and yellow-orange range :eek:).
Could be. I'll take a look at that tomorrow.

When we had this similar problem on the VT30 the fix was simple - reduce Color from 50 to 40-42. That doesn't work on the P60.
 

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Nah, I'm at 14th feet using Googer's settings and I'm more than happy with the P70's picture.
"happy with the picture" isn't the issue. The question is all other things being equal, is the increased 4K resolution over 1080P of a 70" screen at 14 feet worth the cost differential. I posit that at that distance the visible differences between 4K and 1080P are reduced considerably than at a closer viewing distance..
 

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"happy with the picture" isn't the issue. The question is all other things being equal, is the increased 4K resolution over 1080P of a 70" screen at 14 feet worth the cost differential. I posit that at that distance the visible differences between 4K and 1080P are reduced considerably than at a closer viewing distance..
As I said somewhere in this thread I didn't purchase this set for the 4k. However even with my old eye's watching the Netflix 4k outdoor videos it was quite obvious the difference between 1080 and 2160 in my house in my room.
Edit: for me the cost was ok.
Sent from my SM-T320 using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2
 

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On my p60 after calibration to fix sunburn face i took off the meter, put up a show with faces and adjusted red hue till it looked correct. Best I could do but it worked.
 

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"happy with the picture" isn't the issue. The question is all other things being equal, is the increased 4K resolution over 1080P of a 70" screen at 14 feet worth the cost differential. I posit that at that distance the visible differences between 4K and 1080P are reduced considerably than at a closer viewing distance..
Do the additional FALD zones make a difference? For example, you're getting 32 zones with the cheaper M 70 versus 72 zones for the P 70. I'm not sure if that's a noticeable difference and, if so, is the difference enough to justify the increased price.
 

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Do the additional FALD zones make a difference? For example, you're getting 32 zones with the cheaper M 70 versus 72 zones for the P 70. I'm not sure if that's a noticeable difference and, if so, is the difference enough to justify the increased price.

The m70 has 36 zones. Also there are more differences than just zones and 4k. You are asking a personal question (justifying price) to another person who may not hold the same views of value as you do. I tend to never directly answer value/justification questions as those differ from person to person.


I'm lost in the blue nowhere.
 

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The more zones the better, the smaller the area which can be backlit without backlighting surround black pixels. Emissive displays with perfect contrast have essentially one zone per pixel. Also the P-Series has all of the best tech Vizio has to offer this year: 801.11ac wireless, 2-CPU/4-GPU processor (make CPU-intensive web-tech based apps like Netflix and YouTube run relatively smoothly), HEVC decoding, etc, etc. That's what I bought one for at a large premium over the M-Series (75% more for the 55"); twice the zones and more advanced tech. 4K did not enter into it.
 

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I spent six hours with the P60 and still have a ways to go. In particular, color calibration.

I used HDMI 1 for calibrating and I'm going to make the assumption that HDMI 2 & 3 have all the same attributes. HDMI 4 has at least one different ability and I'll be exploring that tomorrow.

First of all I'll get the less than desirable qualities out of the way.

Color: the chart, calibrated at 75% saturation, looks terrific.



You'd think colors would be excellent but reference material proved otherwise. My main flesh tone ref is Color Girl # 2 from a cal disc which is unattainable now. Regardless, this gal is my main cal squeeze and I know her intimately. Camera inadequacies aside, these pictures are close enough. The 65VT60 plasma is on the left and the P60 is on the right. The VT60 displays what she is supposed to look like.



Hopefully I'll find a work around but it will take some experimenting (time).

On axis viewing: Note that the red shirt is slightly less saturated on the P60 yet the flesh is redder.



Off axis: I find the P60 to be in the ballpark with most other LCD screens. Too bad but it goes with the technology.



Motion: Judder on HDMI 1 and I assume 2 & 3 was not correctable.

Blooming: There was some blooming which was especially evident with white on black film credits.


Good stuff

Grayscale and Gamma: Excellent! The display is very responsive.



Motion: Using HDMI 4, judder was reduced and looked equal to the VT60.

MKV: It might not mean much to most, but the P60 plays video in MKV containers loaded on USB thumb drives. I use this often to review movies before showing them in my theater.

Input lag for gamers: HDMI 4 lag off 102ms, on 44ms. HDMI 5 lag off 76ms, on 17ms

Black: Much better than I expected after experiencing the bad panel on a P55. I didn't expect 64 dimming zones to be as effective as they are. This graphic shows one negative number on it (which is impossible) but multiple readings produced the same result. In short, a standard ANSI contrast pattern indicated extremely high contrast ratio due to the pixels shutting down via local dimming. Also note the lower luminance of white on the right side of the panel. I thought this a bit strange but I have not noticed it viewing content.



There is no light bleed anywhere on the panel - big change from the P55.

Overall impression:

I viewed some light Blu-Ray content (The Art Of Flight) and dark (The Dark Knight). Both looked terrific when viewed on axis. It was difficult to impossible to see any difference between the LCD and the Plasma. Black was black and dark detail was all visible. The P60 is a bargain FALD display.
Some pretty interesting findings! I'm surprised it compares so well to the vt60. Thats great news! When i decide to upgrade to 4k and atmos, hopefully the second gen models will be that much better!

Thanks for your work and sharing all this info with us. Oh and I'll send you that PM once I'm settled in Maricopa.
 

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I ordered my P70 from Vizio and it was delivered by Manna. I got an advance email and scheduled the delivery ahead of time. They arrived on time with a 30 minute advance call before arrival. They actually brought it all the way into the family room and waited while I inspected the carton for damage.
How long after ordering was it before it arrived?
 

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By second gen models do you mean like what they did by re-releasing the E and M? Im eagerly waiting to see one of these bad boys myself!
 

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By second gen models do you mean like what they did by re-releasing the E and M? Im eagerly waiting to see one of these bad boys myself!

They haven't re-released the e and m (2014) this is the 1st gen FALD for those series. The 2015 sets would be "gen 2" ;)


I'm lost in the blue nowhere.
 
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