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I faced the same dilemma. In the end I went with the 8015 and don’t regret it one bit. I’m totally blown away by music and movies and I’m coming from a SR-7010. I don’t care about 8k either yet, however who knows what the future holds and at least I’m future proof. The 8015 measured better as a preamp than the 8012. Also according to some that have heard both, the 8015 sounds even better than the already dynamic sounding 8012. Don’t know what great deals you’re seeing the 8012’s for, but I’m still seeing $2499 new. If you search around these forums you can find an authorized dealer like I did who can get you a nicely discounted 8015 for not much more. The cost difference to me was peanuts on a receiver I plan on keeping at least 10 years.
Thanks for the reply. I'm most likely going to go for the SR-8015. BTW, I recently heard the SR-8015 and the Denon X6700H have some issue with 4k/120 hz refresh rates, so it won't work properly with the latest Sony PS5 and XBOX X game consoles at this setting. Any thoughts on this?
 

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Thanks for the reply. I'm most likely going to go for the SR-8015. BTW, I recently heard the SR-8015 and the Denon X6700H have some issue with 4k/120 hz refresh rates, so it won't work properly with the latest Sony PS5 and XBOX X game consoles at this setting. Any thoughts on this?
There is a tread with over 1,000 posts on this forum on the HDMI chip issue. Is there a reason why you are raising the question here?

 

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Thanks for the reply. I'm most likely going to go for the SR-8015. BTW, I recently heard the SR-8015 and the Denon X6700H have some issue with 4k/120 hz refresh rates, so it won't work properly with the latest Sony PS5 and XBOX X game consoles at this setting. Any thoughts on this?
Per Gene, Sound United is suppose to be providing some sort of announcement soon, no one knows exactly what this will entail. Hoping for an update before the end of the month...
 

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Discussion Starter · #524 ·
Thanks for the reply. I'm most likely going to go for the SR-8015. BTW, I recently heard the SR-8015 and the Denon X6700H have some issue with 4k/120 hz refresh rates, so it won't work properly with the latest Sony PS5 and XBOX X game consoles at this setting. Any thoughts on this?
The issue only applies to the xBox Series X as there is no problem passing 4k/120Hz from the PS5.

BTW ... nothing wrong with asking your question here regarding the SR8015 as that is the reason this thread was created.
 

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Thanks for the reply. I'm most likely going to go for the SR-8015. BTW, I recently heard the SR-8015 and the Denon X6700H have some issue with 4k/120 hz refresh rates, so it won't work properly with the latest Sony PS5 and XBOX X game consoles at this setting. Any thoughts on this?
I have a concern with the PS5 eventually. See as of now it only outputs at 32Gbps, no VRR, and no ALLM. Once this is all fixed, PS5 may now work with the Denon. Hopefully the Denon will have there fix out before PS5 fixes there issues.
 

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Marantz Japan just this week announced they are replacing the AKM4458 DAC chip to TI PCM5102A on the following models:
CD player: CD6007
Pre-main amplifier: PM7000N, PM6007
AV Amplifier: SR8015, SR6015, NR1711

This replacement is needed due to AKM DAC shortage from the fire. Is the TI a good DAC?
I will receive my SR8015 tomorrow and I really hope it contains AKM4458 as I am not really a fan of TIs DACs.
 

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Marantz Japan just this week announced they are replacing the AKM4458 DAC chip to TI PCM5102A on the following models:
CD player: CD6007
Pre-main amplifier: PM7000N, PM6007
AV Amplifier: SR8015, SR6015, NR1711

This replacement is needed due to AKM DAC shortage from the fire. Is the TI a good DAC?
Interesting and IMO unfortunate if true. The link you listed didn't work for me. Do you or anyone else here have any confirmation of this news.

Based on the datasheet the PCM5102A has much worse THD than the AKM4458. The lower specified PCM5100 from the same family of TI DAC IC's is used as the DAC IC for the Zones in Denon/Marantz equipment such as the SR8015, AV8805, X8500H, X6700H, etc.

Considering the mediocre measured performance of Marantz products with HDAM's a PCM5102A DAC IC shouldn't have too much of an effect. If the PCM5102A is used in Denon equipment then the overall change in measured performance will likely be significantly worse.
 

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Hi. I've got a question for SR-8015 owners. I'm seriously considering this AV receiver but have a question about its bi-amping capabilities. Looking through the user manual, from what I understand, the second height channel amp can be re-directed to bi-amp the front left and right channels. My question is: is this the only way to bi-amp? Would it be possible to use the two back channels for bi-amping in order to do 5.1.4 with bi-amped mains? Thanks for any infor you can provide.
 

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Interesting and IMO unfortunate if true. The link you listed didn't work for me. Do you or anyone else here have any confirmation of this news.

Based on the datasheet the PCM5102A has much worse THD than the AKM4458. The lower specified PCM5100 from the same family of TI DAC IC's is used as the DAC IC for the Zones in Denon/Marantz equipment such as the SR8015, AV8805, X8500H, X6700H, etc.

Considering the mediocre measured performance of Marantz products with HDAM's a PCM5102A DAC IC shouldn't have too much of an effect. If the PCM5102A is used in Denon equipment then the overall change in measured performance will likely be significantly worse.
Try this link:
 

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I was able to access the page. The change in DAC IC for the SR8015 is mentioned, but the PCM5102A is not mentioned. I may just have missed it.

Frankly the PCM5102A would be an odd choice since the PCM5102A is a stereo DAC IC and the AKM DAC IC was an 8-channel unit. It would be more expensive to implement the PCM5102A for the DAC IC's and support chips, and in circuit board space.

A more likely choice seems something like the Cirrus Logic CS4385 DAC IC. The CS4385 is an 8-channel voltage output DAC. The rated performance is closer to that of the AKM DAC that it would replace and better than the TI 5102A. The features of the CS4385 chips, such as the reconstruction filter choices, are similar.

We'll see...
 

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Discussion Starter · #532 ·
Hi. I've got a question for SR-8015 owners. I'm seriously considering this AV receiver but have a question about its bi-amping capabilities. Looking through the user manual, from what I understand, the second height channel amp can be re-directed to bi-amp the front left and right channels. My question is: is this the only way to bi-amp? Would it be possible to use the two back channels for bi-amping in order to do 5.1.4 with bi-amped mains? Thanks for any infor you can provide.
As noted in the SR8015 Owner's manual (p. 49) there are two settings that allow for the "Bi-amp" of the Front L/R speakers, both of which would only use the Height 3/Front Wide speaker posts. Note however, that as often discussed on this forum, using the "passive" bi-amp capability of an AVR is not likely to provide any benefit, either in additional power or better audio quality.
 

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Hi. I've got a question for SR-8015 owners. I'm seriously considering this AV receiver but have a question about its bi-amping capabilities. Looking through the user manual, from what I understand, the second height channel amp can be re-directed to bi-amp the front left and right channels. My question is: is this the only way to bi-amp? Would it be possible to use the two back channels for bi-amping in order to do 5.1.4 with bi-amped mains? Thanks for any infor you can provide.
As noted in the SR8015 Owner's manual (p. 49) there are two settings that allow for the "Bi-amp" of the Front L/R speakers, both of which would only use the Height 3/Front Wide speaker posts. Note however, that as often discussed on this forum, using the "passive" bi-amp capability of an AVR is not likely to provide any benefit, either in additional power or better audio quality.

Some of the Benefits of Passive Bi-amping

There a many technical benefits to passive bi-amping. Some of these benefits apply to bi-amping an AVR, some with separate external power amplifier channels and some to both. The benefits in the case of AVR’s with unused amplifier channels are particularly appealing. Here are some of the benefits of passive bi-amping.

o A woofer generates back EMF, a voltage. Some of this voltage contains distortion from the woofer that is low enough in frequency to pass back through the woofer crossover and yet high enough in frequency to pass through the tweeter's crossover. Effectively some of the distortion from the woofer is driving the tweeter. Denon describes this effect in their Owner’s manuals when describing bi-amping.

This effect is most pronounced in two-way speakers with 1st or 2nd order crossovers. Some people actually use small two-way speakers as their L and R speakers in home theater systems, which is likely the worst case. The woofer is likely to produce a lot of distortion since it is too small for the job, and is over driven. Much of this distortion will range in frequency from just below the woofer's crossover point and upward in frequency. The use of 1st or 2nd order crossovers allows a lot of this distortion to pass from the woofer to the tweeter.

o Each amplifier channel sees a higher effective load impedance than if one amplifier channel drives the entire speaker. This higher impedance using bi-amping is because each of the separate amplifiers has the same voltage output and less current output, so the effective impedance is higher. This difference should reduce overall distortion and crossover distortion. This effect is particularly important for AVR's since an AVR typically has only one set of output transistors and a low bias voltage across the each output transistor's emitter resistor.

o The cooling load for the amplifier channels will be spread over a larger portion of the heat sink since two amplifier channels drive a speaker instead of one. This will result in less variation in temperature of the output stage, which causes better dynamic bias tracking. which should reduce distortion. The more effective cooling should reduce the temperature of the amplifier channels and thus increase the lifetime of components such as electrolytic capacitors.

o A lower output current requirement, and smaller changes in output current, for an amplifier channel should reduce the distortion of the input stage, which is typically a long-tailed pair in say a D/M AVR and the voltage gain stage. Often the input stage is lacking a current mirror and other desirable design features. AVR power amplifier stages typically have only a two transistor output stage (Darlington) with modest current gain. The lower the current gain, the harder the input and voltage gain stages have to work. Less current gain is available than the three transistor output stage output, using more capable transistors, found in many external power amplifiers. In addition, this current gain is not constant with changes in currant output due to the choice of transistors.

These added, and varying current requirements in an AVR amplifier channel ultimately put more stress on the input and voltage gain stage of a class AB amplifier, which in turn clauses more distortion. The lower the output current requirement and the less change in current output, the less distortion is caused by this factor. Using two AVR amplifier channels provides this reduction in current requirement per amplifier channel.
o Bi-amping will reduce the potential effects of equivalent peak dissipation resistance (EPDR), because the current load that is required to drive a loudspeaker is spread between two power amplifiers. Stereophile has recently begun measuring EPDR for speakers under test. To quote John Atkinson, “EPDR is the resistive load that gives rise to the same peak dissipation in an amplifier’s output devices as the loudspeaker.” Here is a link an explanation of the EPDR concept:

Heavy Load: How Loudspeakers Torture Amplifiers | Stereophile.com

Here is a link to a loudspeaker review in Stereophile where the EPDR has been calculated. See the 2nd paragraph:

Sonus Faber Lumina III loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com


It is nice to know that there are technical factors that support passive bi-amping, even with AVR's.
 
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