AVS Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
21 - 40 of 79637 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,324 Posts

Quote:
I would like to see a continuation of the "missing bass" effect some (including me) are seeing with the receiver implementation of Audyssey. I'm using a Denon 2807.

Back when I had the 3806 I tried "tricking" Audyssey by lowering my lower bass regions with the BFD BEFORE I ran Audyssey. This way, I figured Audyssey would hear that there wasnt as much bass down in the lower regions thereby my theory went that it wouldnt cut it as much when it ran...Then Id run Audyssey eq, aferwards I raised the bfd levels back up to the nomal spot and STILL didnt have enough lower region bass ...Scratches head, I couldnt figure how that was possible


I have a 2807 now ..also have a bfd but its not hooked up..maybe I can blow the dust off of it and start some new tinkering ..To be honest, I havent even plotted a graph this time arond with the 2807 as Im afraid of what it would look like down in the lower regions.

Plus as James said, I like what it does everywhere else.

Also just simply boosting the lfe up by 3~4 db after Audyssey runs is seeming to sound pretty good at the moment.

Dont know if I should re-open Pandora's box
as it can be an obession
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
I too had Audyssey "remove" bass information when I ran it on my 5805. I have an SMS1 connected to the 5805 as well. My fix was also to reduce the level on the SMS before running Audyssey and then afterwards increase the level on the SMS and boost the 15-40Hz range. This seemed to work OK.


Today, I moved my subs around a bit and decided to redo the Audyssey. I did a few things different and this time Audyssey didn't remove ANY bass info. It's all still there (based on the sweeps with the SMS) Here's what I did:


1. Turn Audyssey off

2. Set SMS to no EQ

3. Run speaker level test on 5805 and use the SMS to set the sub level to match the other speaker levels (used radio shack sound meter for this)

4. Run Audyssey and use all the test points possible (8 on the 5805)

5. Use SMS to tweak any frequencies as needed (very little tweaking was needed here as all the bass was present down to 12 Hz or so. I just smoothed it out a little more).

6. Use SMS (or SW level setting on the 5805) to set desired sub level (I like to run my subs about 5dB higher than the other speakers, your tastes may differ).


Don't know if this will work for anyone else but it worked for me
I also don't know if moving the subs had something to do with it. Don't see why it would but who knows.


El Marko
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
24,637 Posts
"I tried "tricking" Audyssey by lowering my lower bass regions with the BFD BEFORE I ran Audyssey."


Maybe Audyssey concluded that you have wimpy subs and boosting them is ill-advised.


So how about *boosting* the low bass first, and maybe Audyssey will think "A bit uncouth, but I have something to work with."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,040 Posts
What about someone that doesn't have an external EQ such as an SMS-1, how can we fix the lower bass region? I haven't purchased my 2895 but am a little worried about what I am reading about how people's lower bass region has been affected by Audyssey.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
135 Posts
ok so i have a marantz 7001 and i too hate the bass sqaushing of the audyssey system but like it for other things.


maybe i'm missing something here so set me straight if i am --


in my case, audyssey set my fronts and center to large, the crossover to 80hz, and the bass to MIX and it lowered my sub level 11.5 db's
. it also did it's thing with the room eq. i have a hsu stf-3 and the folks over there said they also see this happening alot with audyssey (to be fair they did not mention audyssey by name but said "auto eq's or something like that). they suggested setting all speakers to small and setting the crossover to 80hz in the receiver.


oh and my front speakers have a freq response of 49hz - 22 khz +/- 3db.


ok so then i go back into my setup, change the speakers to all small, and take the sub level up to 0.0 db's. everything is still intact with the other settings (including eq) so what have i really done? i have heard others mention that audyssey is an all or nothing solution--it wont allow changes to it's settings. yet i seem to be able to make changes to some things and keep things i want.


am i doing this all wrong? or is this something with how it's implemented on marantz (other's seem always to reference the denon implementation)? for what it's worth, i like the audyssey eq for movies and tv, but for music it is WAAAAAY to bright for my tastes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
958 Posts
I have not read this thread in it's word for word, but we had a pretty good one a while ago that Chris from Audyssey participated in. In case you read the part where I got POed at Chris and acted in less than a gentlemanly way, we got that worked out in PMs ages ago. Chris is a great guy. Post 145 has a FAQ that he wrote for us, which is a good read.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...45#post7969145


Nick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
610 Posts
Discussion Starter #27

Quote:
Originally Posted by govner /forum/post/0


in my case, audyssey set my fronts and center to large, the crossover to 80hz, and the bass to MIX and it lowered my sub level 11.5 db's. it also did it's thing with the room eq.

Technically speaking, your Marantz set your speakers up that way... Audyssey has nothing to do with it although the processes are (sometimes transparently) combined. The "thing with the room eq" is Audyssey... in its entirety.

Quote:
Originally Posted by govner /forum/post/0


i have heard others mention that audyssey is an all or nothing solution--it wont allow changes to it's settings. yet i seem to be able to make changes to some things and keep things i want.

You can change all of the speaker config stuff with Audyssey still running because again, the speaker setups are not Audyssey's doing. Audyssey does it's measurements based on the receiver's auto-config though, so you could be changing the sound somewhat by doing it. On Denon, that causes Audyssey to change the colour of its light, but it's still running. I'm not sure how the Marantz lets you know that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
135 Posts
wow nice work soundlover--that was quite informative. thanks for reposting it.


so i still have one question--if my speakers are set to large, and they only have a frequency response down to 49hz (+/-3db), what happens to the bass frequencies below 49 that are mixed into those two channels? i know they may still be output from the speakers but at much lower db's. wouldn't i want my sub which is +/-3 at 18 hz to pick those up?


i very well may be missing something obvious here, but it would seem to me that i would always want all my speakers bass managed (particularly during movies) since i would want the sub to pick up any frequencies below say 60hz (or whatever) so i'm not "missing" those frequencies since my main FL & FR can not handle these very well.


i could then always select source direct when listening to music right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,710 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundlovr /forum/post/0


You can change all of the speaker config stuff with Audyssey still running because again, the speaker setups are not Audyssey's doing. Audyssey does it's measurements based on the receiver's auto-config though, so you could be changing the sound somewhat by doing it. On Denon, that causes Audyssey to change the colour of its light, but it's still running. I'm not sure how the Marantz lets you know that.

I've said the same and found out that it is operational true but not entirely so. The Denon auto-set-up (distance, level, BM) is actually part of the Audyssey program and the results are transferred to the Denon by it. The EQ portion is, of course, also Audyssey but somewhat separable since it can be defeated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,324 Posts
I just wish that Audyssey had an option for a house curve on the lfe channel..

Just hit the button and it goes from flat to curved.

I dont know, but it sure does seem like that would be an easy thing to add(??)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
958 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdgeek /forum/post/0


I would like to see a continuation of the "missing bass" effect some (including me) are seeing with the receiver implementation of Audyssey. I'm using a Denon 2807.


I attached a graph of my before and after correction. The red line shows why my bass loses impact with Audyssey turned on. I am able to correct it somewhat using my BFD and raising the bass level but I am curious why there is the general fall-off from 45 Hz on down. I have a SVS 25-31 PC+ tuned to 20 Hz with one port plug.

Audyssey seems to be a bit irratic in setting the bass. Most folks think it's too low. In my case Audyssey sets the sub way too hot and that's with my sub placed near field in a large room (~3000 cf). Go figure. After setup I set the sub level the way I like it and then all is good.


Nick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
958 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by govner /forum/post/0


wow nice work soundlover--that was quite informative. thanks for reposting it.


so i still have one question--if my speakers are set to large, and they only have a frequency response down to 49hz (+/-3db), what happens to the bass frequencies below 49 that are mixed into those two channels? i know they may still be output from the speakers but at much lower db's. wouldn't i want my sub which is +/-3 at 18 hz to pick those up?


i very well may be missing something obvious here, but it would seem to me that i would always want all my speakers bass managed (particularly during movies) since i would want the sub to pick up any frequencies below say 60hz (or whatever) so i'm not "missing" those frequencies since my main FL & FR can not handle these very well.


i could then always select source direct when listening to music right?

Right. But why would you not want to bass manage the music? That is where bass management and Audyssey make the most noticeable improvement, with music. A good sub will do a much better job of reproducing the lows that almost any speaker. I suggest setting all your speakers to small all the time crossed over at 80Hz. An additional benefit to setting your speakers to small is that they don't "try" to reproduce the low frequency and with that load removed they do a better job on the frequencies above 80hz. Lastly, less is required of your receiver/amp since it's the low frequencies that tax it the most.


Nick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
958 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by psujohny /forum/post/0


I just wish that Audyssey had an option for a house curve on the lfe channel..

Just hit the button and it goes from flat to curved.

I dont know, but it sure does seem like that would be an easy thing to add(??)

I don't see what you are getting at here. Change the "LFE curve"?


Nick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
610 Posts
Discussion Starter #35

Quote:
Originally Posted by govner /forum/post/0


so i still have one question--if my speakers are set to large, and they only have a frequency response down to 49hz (+/-3db), what happens to the bass frequencies below 49 that are mixed into those two channels? i know they may still be output from the speakers but at much lower db's. wouldn't i want my sub which is +/-3 at 18 hz to pick those up?


i very well may be missing something obvious here, but it would seem to me that i would always want all my speakers bass managed (particularly during movies) since i would want the sub to pick up any frequencies below say 60hz (or whatever) so i'm not "missing" those frequencies since my main FL & FR can not handle these very well.


i could then always select source direct when listening to music right?

Correct on all points if I read you correctly. You are almost always better off setting the speakers to small... see this .


I also agree with Nick that you're better off leaving bass management on during music playback as well for the exact same reasons: the sub will reproduce bass better than the speakers. It's also a fact that the best location for stereo imaging is almost always not the best place for bass production, so using the sub for music reproduction benefits in that way as well. The only trick of it all is ensuring that the sub is properly blended, but that's where the Audyssey comes in and should produce some nice results.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
610 Posts
Discussion Starter #36

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson /forum/post/0


I've said the same and found out that it is operational true but not entirely so. The Denon auto-set-up (distance, level, BM) is actually part of the Audyssey program and the results are transferred to the Denon by it. The EQ portion is, of course, also Audyssey but somewhat separable since it can be defeated.

Yes, I do get that they are transparently linked. My point is that they are independent systems... you can turn them on and off independently, change settings to one without invalidating the other, etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,710 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundlovr /forum/post/0


Yes, I do get that they are transparently linked. My point is that they are independent systems... you can turn them on and off independently, change settings to one without invalidating the other, etc.

Agreed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,324 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by psujohny

I just wish that Audyssey had an option for a house curve on the lfe channel..

Just hit the button and it goes from flat to curved.

I dont know, but it sure does seem like that would be an easy thing to add(??)




I don't see what you are getting at here. Change the "LFE curve"?

All Im saying is that Audyssey try's to eq the subs bass for a flat response... But down lower, alot of people prefer the bass with a curve from say 20 hz to 80 hz with 20 hz being slightly higher then 25, 25 being higher then 30 etc etc.. alot of folks like a 10~15 db gentle slop downward in dbs from 20~80 hz. That was the target I ( and alot of folks I know ) preferred to shoot for when eq-ing with the BFD eq.

So why couldnt Audyssey have aan option for a house curve down low...I mean there are alot of folks who complain about lack of lower bass. I think this would be exactly what the doctor ordered and seems like it would be relatively easy for the Audyssey people to do.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
24,637 Posts
I really miss loudness controls, not that there were ever many proper ones that gave more bass boost at volume was lowered.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
135 Posts
thanks nick and soundlover--i'm going to try those settings when i return from a trip next week. i'll probably re-run the audyssey yet again.


i'm sure i'll have some more questions when i do.


thanks again folks--very informative thread.
 
21 - 40 of 79637 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top