AVS Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
13781 - 13800 of 79637 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,679 Posts
Regarding the importance of ensuring the mic is not impacted by external vibrations, I thought of a little analogy:


Complaining of all the issues' Audyssey users have experienced with phase, distance calcs, uneven frequency response, etc. and blaming the System itself is akin to a new camera owner complaining of blurry or out-of-focus pictures from a camera they place on the hood of a truck with a big-old diesel running.


The problem is not the camera, it's the context in which you placed the camera (external shaking) that caused the blurred image.


Same with Audyssey, you must ensure the mic is stable and will not be disturbed by the thing it's sitting on. Otherwise: Blurry' results
 

·
Wireless member
Joined
·
27,113 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordo /forum/post/16237013


Quite a few people have been happy with the method of placing the mic at the same level as the main's tweeters when the mains have their tweeters much higher than ear level when listening.


I can see two possible problems with this.


1. The mic is now on axis with the main's tweeters (see caveat below), but probably way off axis from the centre (your most important speaker when listening to movies).


2. Good speaker designers, if they design tower cabinets, I assume would try to design the main lobe of the tweeter to angle down, not firing straight out, 6 feet above the floor.

Be careful what you assume. If the main lobes were angled down, raising the mic would be unnecessary with the proof of that being having achieved good results with the mic at ear level.If the center is at a different level than the L&R tweeters, then that's where steppin' in to re-orient the mic comes into play. I see a lot of home theater speakers that do not, to me, seem to be well-suited to home theater use.


If the center is at a different level than the L&R tweeters, then that's where steppin' in to re-orient the mic comes into play.


If the center is at a different level than the L&R tweeters, then that's where steppin' in to re-orient the mic comes into play.
 

·
Wireless member
Joined
·
27,113 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordo /forum/post/16237013


Quite a few people have been happy with the method of placing the mic at the same level as the main's tweeters when the mains have their tweeters much higher than ear level when listening.


I can see two possible problems with this.


1. The mic is now on axis with the main's tweeters (see caveat below), but probably way off axis from the centre (your most important speaker when listening to movies).


2. Good speaker designers, if they design tower cabinets, I assume would try to design the main lobe of the tweeter to angle down, not firing straight out, 6 feet above the floor.

Be careful what you assume. If the main lobe were angled down, raising the mic would be unnecessary with the proof of that being having achieved good results with the mic at ear level. I see a lot of home theater speakers that do not, to me, seem to be well-suited to home theater use.


If the center is at a different level than the L&R tweeters, then that's where steppin' in to re-orient the mic comes into play.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
277 Posts
For those of you having the problems getting Audyssey to calculate your subwoofer trim/distances correctly, what phase setting are you using on your subwoofer. I believe that Audyssey demands that you set your phase control to 0 degrees before running the setup.
 

·
Wireless member
Joined
·
27,113 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence /forum/post/16238306


For those of you having the problems getting Audyssey to calculate your subwoofer trim/distances correctly, what phase setting are you using on your subwoofer. I believe that Audyssey demands that you set your phase control to 0 degrees before running the setup.

"Recommends"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,128 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonFo /forum/post/16224699


Would a reasonable guideline be that if a distance is off (especially to short) by a significant margin, that one should re-run the measurement and change some physical aspect of the measurement setup?

Yes, I would agree with that. If the distances are way off for the speakers then there is something causing that and it would be a good idea to identify it and remeasure. The exception to this is the subwoofer distance being found longer than the physical distance. That is a correct result because of the internal filter delay.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,447 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn /forum/post/16228911


Yes, I ended up in Audyssey Flat most of the time - damn convenient... you don't have to remember to go "Flat" everytime you want to listen to music. That was one of my annoyances with Onkyo's implementation last year... no "Flat" setting was available... could never get music to be completely satisfying with Audyssey turned on. Of course that was early in Audyssey and I hadn't yet seen a product with a "Flat" setting so I was torn about how to handle that in the review (not knowing other implementations elsewhere included a "Flat" option).


At this point, I think of Re-EQ like an old balance control. Does anybody even USE Re-EQ any more with the advent of so many THX modes PLUS movie mastering on discs for the home market seems to have gotten pretty reasonable over the last 4 years or maybe even a bit more. I think the last time I used Re-EQ was with a letterbox DVD (not widescreen... I mean WAY back before they knew how to make widescreen DVDs).


I found the THX modes less fatiguing over the entire 2 hour +/- movie when I listen at or near reference levels for product reviews.

Thanks for the reply, Doug. Yes, I am bummed that the Denon AVP does not allow users to turn off Re-EQ in THX Ultra 2 Cinema modes. I have had a 7.1 setup for around nine years, thanks to Lexicon's Logic 7 modes.


So, the only way for me to get 7.1 channels from a 5.1 channel (Dolby True HD or DTS-HD Master Audio) soundtrack with the Denon AVP is to use the THX Ultra 2 Cinema mode.


I guess I was spoiled by the flexibility of the Lexicon's Logic 7. However--to make the post relevant--the Lexicon did not have Audyssey!


Mark
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,070 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania /forum/post/16239053


Thanks for the reply, Doug. Yes, I am bummed that the Denon AVP does not allow users to turn off Re-EQ in THX Ultra 2 Cinema modes. I have had a 7.1 setup for around nine years, thanks to Lexicon's Logic 7 modes.


So, the only way for me to get 7.1 channels from a 5.1 channel (Dolby True HD or DTS-HD Master Audio) soundtrack with the Denon AVP is to use the THX Ultra 2 Cinema mode.


I guess I was spoiled by the flexibility of the Lexicon's Logic 7. However--to make the post relevant--the Lexicon did not have Audyssey!


Mark

Mark


I use Dolby Pro-logic IIx with my AVP for my 7.2 set up most of the time. With PLIIx you can turn on or of Cinema-EQ.


Brad
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,697 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania /forum/post/16239053


Yes, I am bummed that the Denon AVP does not allow users to turn off Re-EQ in THX Ultra 2 Cinema modes. I have had a 7.1 setup for around nine years, thanks to Lexicon's Logic 7 modes.


So, the only way for me to get 7.1 channels from a 5.1 channel (Dolby True HD or DTS-HD Master Audio) soundtrack with the Denon AVP is to use the THX Ultra 2 Cinema mode.


Mark

Hi Mark,


Have you experimented with the THX Music mode?


I couldn't find anything in the Denon manual that discusses which THX modes have THX Re-EQ active, but in reading the Integra manual it states that THX-Re-EQ is not active for THX Music Mode. (Since both manufacturers must implement THX listening modes in accordance with THX standards, I think we can safely assume that the Integra information applies to the Denon implementation as well.)


So we know that Audyssey always applies the Flat target curve to all THX modes, to avoid double high frequency roll-offs, and that THX Music Mode doesn't have THX Re-EQ on, thus providing you with the flatest available 7.1 frequency response with Audyssey engaged.


The problem is that, Audyssey aside, THX Music mode might not be as suitable for rendering directional surround effects as THX Cinema.


Here's some excerpts from the Denon manual:

Quote:
THX Ultra2 Cinema

THX Ultra2 Cinema mode plays 5.1 movies using all 8 speakers giving you the best possible movie watching experience. In this mode, new THX processing blends the side surround speakers and back surround speakers providing the optimal mix of ambient and directional surround sounds.
Quote:
THX Music Mode

For the replay of 5.1 multi-channel music the THX Music Mode should be selected. In this mode new THX processing is applied to the surround channels of all 5.1 encoded music sources such as DTS and Dolby Digital to provied a wide stable rear soundstage.

The Denon manual's description of THX Music Mode is somewhat misleading in that, unlike the Cinema description, it fails to mention that it also uses all 8 speakers. However, it would seem that it is geared more for ambient surround sounds, rather than a mix of ambient and directional surround sounds.


Regardless, if you haven't already experimented with THX Music Mode, it might be worth a try, particularly if you prefer a more diffuse surround field.


Larry
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,697 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRADH /forum/post/16239264


Mark


I use Dolby Pro-logic IIx with my AVP for my 7.2 set up most of the time. With PLIIx you can turn on or of Cinema-EQ.


Brad

Hi Brad,


That's true, however, all non-THX listening modes, such as Dolby Prologic IIX, engage the Audyssey Reference target curve which already has two gentle high frequency roll-offs being applied I believe at 4kHz and 10kHz.


So even with Denon's Cinema EQ set to off the Audyssey target response curve is still not flat.


Larry
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,070 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin /forum/post/16239622


Hi Brad,


That's true, however, all non-THX listening modes, such as Dolby Prologic IIX, engage the Audyssey Reference target curve which already has two gentle high frequency roll-offs being applied I believe at 4kHz and 10kHz.


So even with Denon's Cinema EQ set to off the Audyssey target response curve is still not flat.


Larry

True but you can select Audyssey Flat. Same with DD-EX and others.


Brad
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,697 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRADH /forum/post/16239727


True but you can select Audyssey Flat. Same with DD-EX and others.


Brad

Hi Brad,


Thanks, I forgot that the Denon has the ability to select target curves, whereas the Integra doesn't.



I agree, it seems this would be a solution to Mark's problem.


Larry
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,070 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin /forum/post/16239849


Hi Brad,


Thanks, I forgot that the Denon has the ability to select target curves, whereas the Integra doesn't.



I agree, it seems this would be a solution to Mark's problem.


Larry

Larry


Having the ability to to select the different Audyssey curves was one of the reason I upgraded from the Integra 9.8. I really like using Audyssey flat with 2 channel. With the Integra THX music was the only way to get this.


Brad
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
251 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aiken /forum/post/16234076


I think you're a little confused.

Hi David,


I was not confused. I was curious about the level of the chirps during setup. I knew that with my system the chirps were much to low to cause any kind of vibration.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,697 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRADH /forum/post/16240257


Larry


Having the ability to to select the different Audyssey curves was one of the reason I upgraded from the Integra 9.8. I really like using Audyssey flat with 2 channel. With the Integra THX music was the only way to get this.


Brad

Hi Brad,


Have you had the opportunity to compare THX Ultra2 Cinema, to Dolby Prologic IIx and THX Music Mode with Audyssey engaged?


If so, do you recall any differences?


Thanks.


Larry
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
251 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavchameleon /forum/post/16233137


Quote:

Hi Henry,


Sorry to hear you're having problems with the Audyssey setup. Did you by chance to the newest FW update on the T785 (its V1.18). You can get the updated FW by contacting Bob Moran of NAD (Lenbrook). You'll need to do a full re-set after the update is done (it does, as SoundofMind mentioned, do a 'microprocessor reset' with the updated included). Then try re-run the Audyssey setup according to the guidelines in this thread. I've had great success with Audyssey and the T785. Just one note, all inputs on the T785 has DSP and Audyssey processing (which can be turned on or off) EXCEPT the 7.1 analog inputs, so if by chance you are using these inputs, DSP is not applied. It also applies all DSP/Audyssey through HDMI with an LPCM stream (if using a bluray that does the processing/unpacking before your AVR).


Ray

I am still using v1.17. I have never heard the 785 make any kind of popping sound so I think I will leave the firmware as is.


I have reset the receiver several time and reran Audyssey with the same inflated bass level.


I only use the 7.1 inputs for DVD-A. HDMI for everything else.


Thanks for the reply Ray.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,070 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin /forum/post/16240860


Hi Brad,


Have you had the opportunity to compare THX Ultra2 Cinema, to Dolby Prologic IIx and THX Music Mode with Audyssey engaged?


If so, do you recall any differences?


Thanks.


Larry

Larry


With the 9.8 I got hooked on THX Music 7.1. I still miss Logic 7 my MC 12 had. I never cared for Prologic Music IIx with the 9.8 do to the Audyssey curve, but with Audyssey Flat engaged it sound really nice with the AVP.



For movies I use Prologic IIx cinema, with Audyssey EQ and cinema EQ off. I like THX Ultra 2 cinema, but Prologic IIx get used the most.


I quess the big difference is the way Prologic IIx handles the rears. It makes 5.1 tracks sound more like 7.1 tracks. Example the back channel sounds big, open with lots of separation, compared to the mono sound most surround mode offer.


Brad
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,697 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRADH /forum/post/16241116


Larry


With the 9.8 I got hooked on THX Music 7.1. I still miss Logic 7 my MC 12 had. I never cared for Prologic Music IIx with the 9.8 do to the Audyssey curve, but with Audyssey Flat engaged it sound really nice with the AVP.



For movies I use Prologic IIx cinema, with Audyssey EQ and cinema EQ off. I like THX Ultra 2 cinema, but Prologic IIx get used the most.


I quess the big difference is the way Prologic IIx handles the rears. It makes 5.1 tracks sound more like 7.1 tracks. Example the back channel sounds big, open with lots of separation, compared to the mono sound most surround mode offer.


Brad

Hi Brad,


Thanks for the response.


To clarify when you referred to using "Prologic IIx cinema, with Audyssey EQ and cinema EQ off", did you mean that MultEQ was on, but Dynamic EQ and Cinema EQ was off, or did you mean that you prefer listening to movies without Audyssey room correction?


You obviously prefer a flat response. Is that because you room has a lot of acoustic treatment? How close to the front speakers do you sit?


Thanks.


Larry
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,447 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRADH /forum/post/16239264


Mark


I use Dolby Pro-logic IIx with my AVP for my 7.2 set up most of the time. With PLIIx you can turn on or of Cinema-EQ.


Brad

Brad, does that work with Dolby True HD and DTS-HD Master Audio? I seem to recall that I looked into it and it did not. However, I don't have as much time to dedicate to this stuff as I used to.


I guess I can just try it...faster than looking in the manual.


Thanks.


Mark
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,447 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRADH /forum/post/16241116


Larry


With the 9.8 I got hooked on THX Music 7.1. I still miss Logic 7 my MC 12 had. I never cared for Prologic Music IIx with the 9.8 do to the Audyssey curve, but with Audyssey Flat engaged it sound really nice with the AVP.



For movies I use Prologic IIx cinema, with Audyssey EQ and cinema EQ off. I like THX Ultra 2 cinema, but Prologic IIx get used the most.


I quess the big difference is the way Prologic IIx handles the rears. It makes 5.1 tracks sound more like 7.1 tracks. Example the back channel sounds big, open with lots of separation, compared to the mono sound most surround mode offer.


Brad

Do you think that PLIIx is closer to Logic 7 than THX Ultra 2 Cinema?


Thanks.


Mark
 
13781 - 13800 of 79637 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top