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If you mean raising or lowering the gain (volume) on the sub, no that will not help with dips in your frequency response. Also, no you do not have to re-run Audyssey if you adjust gain on the sub amp, however it is recommended to raise/lower the subwoofer level in the AVR since it is a more exact control.


No its not the sub gain. Its a seperate control knob for 25hz level.. i cant remember exactly what its suppose to do at this moment.. looked up —-if you have weak or boomy bass it helps with these anomolies supposedly..


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No its not the sub gain. Its a seperate control knob for 25hz level.. i cant remember exactly what its suppose to do at this moment.. looked up —-if you have weak or boomy bass it helps with these anomolies supposedly..


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Can you take a picture of the adjustment or pull out the manual and tell us what it says about it please?
 

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Because the furniture is suspended and the speaker weighs 14kg, I'm really scared of having it on the edge. Even now as it is, I regurlaly check if something has moved!
Would you consider putting some museum putty underneath the center speaker? We use Quake-Hold brand under various objets d'art, and it comes off cleanly if you want to remove it, and, used according to the instructions, it really holds! Because of the house shaking power of the sound system, we ran some tests using large peanut butter jars stuck with Quake-Hold to a scrap of finished wood, and we could shake the wood while holding it upside down, and the jars neither fell off nor loosened.
 

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Can you take a picture of the adjustment or pull out the manual and tell us what it says about it please?


I can do that. Ill look it up as im out of town ..


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"Official" Audyssey thread Part II

Can you take a picture of the adjustment or pull out the manual and tell us what it says about it please?






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Hi rocky,

I am going out on a limb here as I am unfamiliar with ML sub design or operations. But that looks to be what is know as a LF Adjust on JTR subs. Also called a LF Cut or Boost adjustment. If I am correct, and again I am no certain I am. The adjustment is to reduce or boost how the sub is interacting with the room. Also referred to as room gain. If the sub sounds too boomy and muddy, you would want to turn the knob toward the cut range (-zone). If the sub seems less present or not hitting like you want, you turn the adjustment towards the Boost (+zone). Set to zero and play some music with good bass you are familiar with. Then start experimenting by turning it up a 1/4 at a time. Listen some more and try to decide if it sound better or worse. It will take you some time, but it’s fun time learning how to tune a sub by ear.

I think what this does is changes the power curve with regards to lower Hz output at the sacrifice of higher hz output in the Boost (+) zone or higher mid bass output at the cost of low bass when in the Cut (-) zone. Set at zero is the default balanced setting.

I hope I am correct here and someone who has more ML Product knowledge can chime in and correct me if incorrect.

I also advise you to go seek out a ML specific Forum and ask these questions there as you may get much better answers and explanations.

Good luck Sir!
 

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Hi rocky,



I am going out on a limb here as I am unfamiliar with ML sub design or operations. But that looks to be what is know as a LF Adjust on JTR subs. Also called a LF Cut or Boost adjustment. If I am correct, and again I am no certain I am. The adjustment is to reduce or boost how the sub is interacting with the room. Also referred to as room gain. If the sub sounds too boomy and muddy, you would want to turn the knob toward the cut range (-zone). If the sub seems less present or not hitting like you want, you turn the adjustment towards the Boost (+zone). Set to zero and play some music with good bass you are familiar with. Then start experimenting by turning it up a 1/4 at a time. Listen some more and try to decide if it sound better or worse. It will take you some time, but it’s fun time learning how to tune a sub by ear.



I think what this does is changes the power curve with regards to lower Hz output at the sacrifice of higher hz output in the Boost (+) zone or higher mid bass output at the cost of low bass when in the Cut (-) zone. Set at zero is the default balanced setting.



I hope I am correct here and someone who has more ML Product knowledge can chime in and correct me if incorrect.



I also advise you to go seek out a ML specific Forum and ask these questions there as you may get much better answers and explanations.



Good luck Sir!


Thats pretty much how im interpreting that. If i finally set to my likeing + or - . Do i need to rerun all the audessey calib..


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Thats pretty much how im interpreting that. If i finally set to my likeing + or - . Do i need to rerun all the audessey calib..


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If you set it to zero for calibration then your good. I have a similar adjustment on JTR Subs and I asked Mike @mthomas47the same questions. His advice which far exceeds my pay grade was to set at zero run Audyssey then adjust to taste.

Does that answer your question?
 
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Hi again Edi-MC,

As long as you are aware of these possible issues and have done all that is permitted. Your as good as its going to get then. We all have to make sacrifices when it comes to living in harmony with one's significant other.
Indeed we have! :)


One more suggestion. The overview layout shows a very close wall near the Left Front Speaker that you can not see in the previous pictures. That wall is also creating large early reflections. If at all possible, find a wall hanging art, a decorative wall rug, something, anything that is made of soft absorbent material. Hang it on that wall as level to the Left Speaker as possible. That will help reduce these early reflections. Early reflections can cause mayhem with the sound field.
That's in the "to do list"

The Couch and how to measure Audyssey positions. Move the Surround Speakers to the Back Sides of the Couch. Facing toward the couch. Not behind it. You will hear the "Surround Sound" much better from this position. Since you seem to be running a 5.1 arrangement. Surrounds to the side is the proper placement. Rear Surrounds (in a 7.1 set up) would go back behind the MLP and face forward towards the MLP much like how you have them currently arranged. But with a 5.1 they are recommended to be at the sides of the MLP.
This one is a little bit tricky. Doing what you suggested (and that makes perfect sense to me), would make the layout a little bit strange and unpractical. I thought about it in the past and even considered to put the left surround on a wall mount... but then the right surrround would be on the stand and being on the side, it would block the passage way between the couch and the dinner table. As it is it's not ideal, but it's a good compromise I think...


Use a little piece of tape to mark the exact position of the Couch now. Then move the couch (temporarily) back 2 feet. Using a Tape measure you can then place the Audyssey Microphone two feet forward on the relocated couch to take the Calibration Measurements. Leave the Side Surrounds at the original spot (to the sides of the Couch) where it currently resides before moving it back.. Take all your Audyssey measurements (accounting for the 2 feet forward position) then when done. Slide the Couch back forward to its original location. This will minimize MLP reflections from the back of the Couch head rests.
This one I tend to disagree. Mainly because if Audyssey measures the behaviour of your speakers in your room and sets the filters accordingly, in theory you should make all the measurements without making changes to your layout... right?



First, you are very welcome! I am combining these two posts, because the questions being asked are essentially the same.

Wherever a smooth or hard fabric couch or chair is involved, I would recommend laying an absorbent blanket across the top of it. We use leather as an example, but any smooth surface can reflect high-frequency sound waves into the Audyssey microphone.

Since the next point doesn't seem to ever receive quite enough emphasis, and comes up frequently, I am going to be a little bit more emphatic in my post.

There is rarely a good reason to use any mic positions behind or above wherever someone is actually listening, and the fact that your headrest is above your ear level is not a good reason. Nearly all headrests will always be above ear level. Headrests are designed to go above our ears.

Audyssey is just a tool. And, like any tool, it won't necessarily be helpful for every task. It's a more sophisticated tool than a screwdriver, but it's still just a tool. As such, it depends somewhat on the understanding and skill of the operator. That starts with the calibration process and continues with post-calibration settings. The Guide, linked in my signature, was written in part, to help enhance our collective understanding and skill level with respect to audio/HT, and with respect to Audyssey.

One of the most important things to understand (which Audyssey's instructions, like many owner's manuals, don't always get right) is that we want to EQ where we are actually listening. We also typically want to keep the measurement area pretty compact.

We want the Audyssey microphone to hear what, and where, we hear. That means that we want the microphone at ear height (center of the ear canal). That also means that we generally don't want to EQ above or behind where we are listening. Doing so will typically cause Audyssey to EQ our system in ways which will degrade, rather than improve, our sound quality.

(It has been demonstrated that just doing two positions 2-3" above the center of the ear canal can sometimes be helpful, but we still wouldn't go above the headrest. And, we always want to start with mic position 1 at ear level, because that defines our main listening position for Audyssey. The MLP is the basis for the distance settings and trim levels.)

There is a model microphone pattern illustrated in Section I-B of the Guide. That particular pattern has seemed to prove effective for a number of people. It is based on the proposition that it is better to allow Audyssey to measure and EQ a fairly small, and relatively uniform, listening area. As with all such model patterns, some degree of trial-and-error may be required to determine what works best in a particular room. But, it's a good fundamental starting point.

Anyone wanting to learn more about the potentially negative effects of measuring behind the actual listening position is invited to refer to the following discussion in the Guide thread:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/2958528-guide-subwoofer-calibration-bass-preferences-58.html#post59151594

I hope this slightly more detailed explanation helps! :)

Regards,
Mike
"Thank you" always seems short to praise the effort you put in to enlighten us!

Got it! No "behind MLP" measurements! "Above ear level" measurements... avoidable, but doable if used only in 2 positions (max).
I'll take a look at the pattern you suggested (already did when I first read the thread, but will do again and try to implement it).
Thank you once again!



Would you consider putting some museum putty underneath the center speaker? We use Quake-Hold brand under various objets d'art, and it comes off cleanly if you want to remove it, and, used according to the instructions, it really holds! Because of the house shaking power of the sound system, we ran some tests using large peanut butter jars stuck with Quake-Hold to a scrap of finished wood, and we could shake the wood while holding it upside down, and the jars neither fell off nor loosened.
Oh, I'm not afraid the sepaker itself will fall if put on the edge! :D I'm afraid that if I put it there the whole cabinet will detach from the wall! ahah 14kg (30ish pounds )is a lot... the cabinet itself is bolted into the wall and the panel TV and TV are resting on top of it, but still.........
 

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If you set it to zero for calibration then your good. I have a similar adjustment on JTR Subs and I asked Mike @mthomas47the same questions. His advice which far exceeds my pay grade was to set at zero run Audyssey then adjust to taste.



Does that answer your question?


That will work. When i originally ran audessey it was to zero. I have never touched it. I will once i get back . Thx


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Oh, I'm not afraid the sepaker itself will fall if put on the edge! :D I'm afraid that if I put it there the whole cabinet will detach from the wall! ahah 14kg (30ish pounds )is a lot... the cabinet itself is bolted into the wall and the panel TV and TV are resting on top of it, but still.........

Bolted into studs or plywood underlayment?



Maybe a helium balloon attached to the center speaker? Somewhat smaller than La Coquette would do.:)
 

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It's bolted directly to the wall on both sides like this:



But I can't remember how much weight it can hold... when it was installed I remember asking but didn't write it down :mad:
For peace of mind I already considered adding some support beneath the cabinet (but it will completely ruin the aesthetics of it so I'm somewhat reluctant...)... a mini Coquette might do it though! :D eheh
 

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Hey Guys, this is my Audyssey results after calibration but i am wondering if my trims should of been set all the same level by Audyssey or do i need to set each speaker trims myself to the same level as one another after calibration. Should dynamic eq be on or off in regards to my question. My room is dedicated and i have a fair amount of sound absorption in it so when i use the sound meter i am flat out trying to reach 75db without turning my speaker trims too high.I am a little confused.
 

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Hey Guys, this is my Audyssey results after calibration but i am wondering if my trims should of been set all the same level by Audyssey or do i need to set each speaker trims myself to the same level as one another after calibration. Should dynamic eq be on or off in regards to my question. My room is dedicated and i have a fair amount of sound absorption in it so when i use the sound meter i am flat out trying to reach 75db without turning my speaker trims too high.I am a little confused.
Even if your speakers were identical in sensitivity (~~"efficiency") they would probably require different trim settings, because they are in different parts of the room, with different amounts of boundary gain. Audyssey is good at assessing that. So, I'd leave the trims where Audyssey sets them. The exception would be the sub, if you want to turn it up a bit AFTER calibration, but use the gain control on the sub itself to do that, so you won't over-stress, and possibly clip, the line driver for sub out in your Marantz.

Since your left front and right front are fairly different (unless there is supposed to be a minus in front of the dB figure in the table for left front), I'm curious -- is one speaker near a large boundary, like a wall, and the other not?
 

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Even if your speakers were identical in sensitivity (~~"efficiency") they would probably require different trim settings, because they are in different parts of the room, with different amounts of boundary gain. Audyssey is good at assessing that. So, I'd leave the trims where Audyssey sets them. The exception would be the sub, if you want to turn it up a bit AFTER calibration, but use the gain control on the sub itself to do that, so you won't over-stress, and possibly clip, the line driver for sub out in your Marantz.

Since your left front and right front are fairly different (unless there is supposed to be a minus in front of the dB figure in the table for left front), I'm curious -- is one speaker near a large boundary, like a wall, and the other not?
Hi Gary.I dont know why Ausyssey set my left main at +3.5 and my right at -4 as the only item i have near the left main speaker is my subwoofer but that has never been an issue in the past. Maybe i need to rerun Audyssey. My room is rectangular and even all round with only the 4 walls being 8x5 meters. Anyway you answered the question about weather i should leave the trims where aydyssey left them. I think the setting of the left front and right front is a different issue and needs to be looked at separately. Maybe something went wrong in the callibration. I will try another and see. Thankyou Gary.
 

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Hey Guys, this is my Audyssey results after calibration but i am wondering if my trims should of been set all the same level by Audyssey or do i need to set each speaker trims myself to the same level as one another after calibration. Should dynamic eq be on or off in regards to my question. My room is dedicated and i have a fair amount of sound absorption in it so when i use the sound meter i am flat out trying to reach 75db without turning my speaker trims too high.I am a little confused.
Gary gave you great answers. I would add that you should change all crossovers to 80Hz as well. Feel free to experiment with higher/lower crossovers after giving that a listen for a week or so, though.
 

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Gary gave you great answers. I would add that you should change all crossovers to 80Hz as well. Feel free to experiment with higher/lower crossovers after giving that a listen for a week or so, though.
Will do today Alan,I did another run of Audyssey but not with the pro kit.I just used the standard mic and did the 8 measurements and the results were different,as the 2 mains were both set to -2 and all crossovers were set to 60hz by Audyssey.On this latest run, Audyssey set my sub distance 2 metres too far away from main listening position and at -5db for the trim.I won’t change the distance. Should I change the sub trim to -11 which I think is a sweet spot.
 

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Will do today Alan,I did another run of Audyssey but not with the pro kit.I just used the standard mic and did the 8 measurements and the results were different,as the 2 mains were both set to -2 and all crossovers were set to 60hz by Audyssey.On this latest run, Audyssey set my sub distance 2 metres too far away from main listening position and at -5db for the trim.I won’t change the distance. Should I change the sub trim to -11 which I think is a sweet spot.
Which AVR do you have? If it has XT32 you will probably not experience any benefits using the Pro kit.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel you may be a little confused; it is often recommended that you try to set the subwoofer gain so that Audyssey comes back with an initial sub trim well into the negative range in order to reduce the chance of clipping. You may have seen someone recommend -11 as a "sweet spot" for this. This is because Audyssey typically sets the subwoofer trim much lower than most folks prefer and you need "headroom" to be able to turn it up. Turning your subwoofer down post-calibration is not the same thing. ;)
 
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No its not the sub gain. Its a seperate control knob for 25hz level.. i cant remember exactly what its suppose to do at this moment.. looked up —-if you have weak or boomy bass it helps with these anomolies supposedly..


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If you use the Audyssey app for calibration, before sending to the receiver...go into the set-up mode for Audyssey receiver itself (onscreen) and re-run the sub matching to match analog dial sub gains. (will need to slightly raise one to trigger the matching option.) Once you have the gain matched and set to where you want onscreen, then send Audyssey calibration to receiver.


Little work around for gain increases on the sub as opposed to the AVR for better accuracy when using non-digital gains
 
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