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Great, if XT32 can simplify things for me then I want to give it a try. Would the setup before Audessy
be the same? Set delay at "0" for both subs and let xt32 time align everything? Set gain knobs at 12'oclock and let xt32 level match them? I saw your comment on gain matching. Is that possible since the subs are not identical? I get plenty of thump from the s3000i (right side of room) but I have found that bass on the opposite side of the room (far left) is uneven so I added the smaller s1512(biggest I could fit) on that side of the room to even things out. The smaller sub definitely works harder(more excursion) due to it being half of a s3000i. My approach was just to even out the bass in the room by adding the smaller sub and it does that but I can tell something is just not quite right.
I've always been happy (by ear) with what XT32 has done for my calibrations, especially in the subwoofers. When I went with dual subs, I used the 2 AVR pre-outs and ran 1 cable to each subwoofer. It sounded good to my ears and if I wanted to keep it simply, I was happy and felt confident.

One thing that I haven't quite learned the answer yet though, but I find interesting: so we know XT32 pings each sub separately first, to align and levels match them to the MLP...and then pings them as one virtual sub for the actual EQ. This is the correct and recommended way.

However, I think, or it doesn't appear at least, to align the subs optimally with each other (just each to the listening position and mains). Whereas in minidsp we tweak with that alignment in a vacum for the 2 subs first...and then Audyssey just sees it as 1 sub from the beginning. When I use only XT32, my subs are set to 11.8 and 11.9 distance/delay. When I go the minidsp route and do it myself, my second sub is 8ms delay compared to my first sub...to get the best overall summation with the least cancellations. And then Audyssey sets the "one" subwoofer at 15.1 distance/delay.

Anyway, that is what the biggest difference appears to be for me. But bottom line XT32 does a good job and audibly it's always sounded good to me overall. As long as you follow the best practices for both Audyssey and subwoofers from the respective guides, you'll be happy with the simple approach.
 

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Great, if XT32 can simplify things for me then I want to give it a try. Would the setup before Audessy
be the same? Set delay at "0" for both subs and let xt32 time align everything? Set gain knobs at 12'oclock and let xt32 level match them? I saw your comment on gain matching. Is that possible since the subs are not identical? I get plenty of thump from the s3000i (right side of room) but I have found that bass on the opposite side of the room (far left) is uneven so I added the smaller s1512(biggest I could fit) on that side of the room to even things out. The smaller sub definitely works harder(more excursion) due to it being half of a s3000i. My approach was just to even out the bass in the room by adding the smaller sub and it does that but I can tell something is just not quite right.
Well there both sealed and have the same driver size so that's good. The S3000I is much more power hungry and has a larger cabinet size. I have little experience with mixing subs as I generally follow the advice of matching them. I tried it once and it was disastrous but they much more mis-matched the yours, more of a experiment tbh

So since I don't have experience on mixing subs I don't want to guess on what on your best move here, but I'm sure some-one does

XT32 is still a good move either way and yes what happens with dual independent sub outs is first it level matches them, then it pings them (this is for phase alignment or Time Delay), then from then on in the calibration it treats them as one sub and EQed as one sub.

I think that Jim is giving you good advice here. Whether you are getting some cancellation due to phase mismatch issues on the two subs is an open question. Without REW to assist you, I would recommend letting XT-32 perform its calibration and room EQ, and then manually tweak the distance setting on one sub, if you believe there is phase-cancellation occurring.

I don't want to help you spend money, :p but you could solve your capability mismatch issues, although not a potential phase-related issue, if you stacked a second S1512 on top of your existing one. That is a good solution where footprint size is an issue, and that would give you the 'rough' equivalent of dual S3000i's, or quad S1512's.

The two S1512's, stacked, would effectively operate as a single sub, and you would Y-connect them into one of the sub-outs on a Denon/Marantz AVR with XT-32. Then, you could still tackle any phase issues by manually adjusting Audyssey's distance setting on either the Y-connected pair, or on the single S3000i.

Regards,
Mike


Edit: I just saw the post just ahead of this one from @pbz06. Unfortunately, Audyssey in any form, is unable to solve phase-related issues between a pair of subs, or between a single sub and any other speaker. The first loud ping is where Audyssey is measuring the arrival time of the sound and setting distances (and levels) for all of the individual speakers, and for two subs (or pairs of Y-connected subs). After that first ping, Audyssey measures all of the subs together, and EQ's them as one.

But, neither Audyssey, nor Dirac, nor ARC, nor any other system of room EQ (as far as I know) can resolve phase-related issues among multiple subs, or between subs and speakers, during either the distance-setting process or during the EQ process. Phase-cancellation occurs when the driver on one transducer moves out, at the same moment that the driver of another transducer, playing the same content, moves in.

That's why phase-cancellation can occur between subwoofers with different frequency responses, or in different parts of the room--because they are playing the same content. It's also why phase-cancellation can occur between subwoofer and mains, or between subwoofer and center channel--because the speaker and the subwoofer(s) are playing the same content at or near the crossover from speaker to sub.
 

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I think that Jim is giving you good advice here. Whether you are getting some cancellation due to phase mismatch issues on the two subs is an open question. Without REW to assist you, I would recommend letting XT-32 perform its calibration and room EQ, and then manually tweak the distance setting on one sub, if you believe there is phase-cancellation occurring.

I don't want to help you spend money, :p but you could solve your capability mismatch issues, although not a potential phase-related issue, if you stacked a second S1512 on top of your existing one. That is a good solution where footprint size is an issue, and that would give you the 'rough' equivalent of dual S3000i's, or quad S1512's.

The two S1512's, stacked, would effectively operate as a single sub, and you would Y-connect them into one of the sub-outs on a Denon/Marantz AVR with XT-32. Then, you could still tackle any phase issues by manually adjusting Audyssey's distance setting on either the Y-connected pair, or on the single S3000i.

Regards,
Mike


Edit: I just saw the post just ahead of this one from @pbz06. Unfortunately, Audyssey in any form, is unable to solve phase-related issues between a pair of subs, or between a single sub and any other speaker. The first loud ping is where Audyssey is measuring the arrival time of the sound and setting distances (and levels) for all of the individual speakers, and for two subs (or pairs of Y-connected subs). After that first ping, Audyssey measures all of the subs together, and EQ's them as one.

But, neither Audyssey, nor Dirac, nor ARC, nor any other system of room EQ (as far as I know) can resolve phase-related issues among multiple subs, or between subs and speakers, during either the distance-setting process or during the EQ process. Phase-cancellation occurs when the driver on one transducer moves out, at the same moment that the driver of another transducer, playing the same content, moves in.

That's why phase-cancellation can occur between subwoofers with different frequency responses, or in different parts of the room--because they are playing the same content. It's also why phase-cancellation can occur between subwoofer and mains, or between subwoofer and center channel--because the speaker and the subwoofer(s) are playing the same content at or near the crossover from speaker to sub.
Thanks! I like the idea of adding a second s1512. Haven’t thought of that. I am going to play around with the delay settings some more tomorrow. I guess the question that remains is what settings to keep on the subs themselves before running Audessy. Should I keep what I come up with for delay on the second sub and let Audessy adjust it or set both at 0 and go from there?
 

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Hi,

I personally prefer full range calibration, but only if I can adjust the target myself. I have been experimenting with Dirac for a while now which has gave me more insight to corrections from 500hz above. Before with Audyssey i would have limited the correction to 500hz as I did not like how bright it made my Klipsch speakers sound. Now I know these are horn speakers but I also know how they sound in direct mode too. I found it important to let the correction follow the curve of the speaker, but then there is the fact that this curve is also created by the room. So I think it's best if one had REW to measure the speakers and where they start rolling off limit the correction there. This will be pretty much full-range correction but allowing them to roll off naturally. This is what I will be doing when I set up Audyssey again. Of coarse the Multi App will be needed for this.



The plus side of full range correction is that all the speakers blend it nicely together and fixes any room issues along the way, this I feel gives a little bit more of a feeling of the speakers disappearing in the room so to speak as they are following the same curve.

The question of correcting with full vs limited will always be there, but I am starting to see a lot more merit to full range rather than limited.
Jim
I haven’t used REW to measure my speakers but agree with your approach. Using the App I noticed my front and center speakers rolled off very similar to the reference curve. My surround and Atmos speakers extended farther out in the upper range. I set my fronts and center to limit them at 5000hz which provided need correction to that point and set the surrounds and Atmos speakers to full range reference. All 7 speakers follow the same predicted curve and the 3 main speakers aren’t touched by EQ above 5000hz. Sounds great to me as I haven’t felt the need to tweak anymore in the past couple of months.
 

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Distance Setting post Audyssey

Quick question. Just bought a Marantz AV7705 and ran Audyssey in my home theater. I’ve heard Audyssey can get the speaker distances completely wrong. My room is 17 ft wide and 22 ft long. Room was dead silence during calibration. Mic was on a tripod. Audyssey speaker distances in my 7.1 system came out anywhere from 45 ft to 49 ft from Main listening position after calibration. The speakers are actually 12 ft to 10 ft from the mail listening position. Is this normal to get such a ridiculous reading from Audyssey? I went back in after calibration and changed the distances. Everything sounds good. With such a weird reading should I assume the whole calibration process might be off. Speaker levels all matched fine using my decibel meter.

Thanks
 

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Quick question. Just bought a Marantz AV7705 and ran Audyssey in my home theater. I’ve heard Audyssey can get the speaker distances completely wrong. My room is 17 ft wide and 22 ft long. Room was dead silence during calibration. Mic was on a tripod. Audyssey speaker distances in my 7.1 system came out anywhere from 45 ft to 49 ft from Main listening position after calibration. The speakers are actually 12 ft to 10 ft from the mail listening position. Is this normal to get such a ridiculous reading from Audyssey? I went back in after calibration and changed the distances. Everything sounds good. With such a weird reading should I assume the whole calibration process might be off. Speaker levels all matched fine using my decibel meter.

Thanks
Personally I would run it again, just do a quick 3 runs with only front speakers just to test results are different. If they look more accurate, then do the full calibration for all speakers and mic positions.

For me 99.9% the times, Audyssey sets the distance/delay very exact for the speakers.

Only the subwoofer should look farther than actual distance.
 

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Quick question. Just bought a Marantz AV7705 and ran Audyssey in my home theater. I’ve heard Audyssey can get the speaker distances completely wrong. My room is 17 ft wide and 22 ft long. Room was dead silence during calibration. Mic was on a tripod. Audyssey speaker distances in my 7.1 system came out anywhere from 45 ft to 49 ft from Main listening position after calibration. The speakers are actually 12 ft to 10 ft from the mail listening position. Is this normal to get such a ridiculous reading from Audyssey? I went back in after calibration and changed the distances. Everything sounds good. With such a weird reading should I assume the whole calibration process might be off. Speaker levels all matched fine using my decibel meter.

Thanks
Ive never had Audyssey get distances completely wrong with multiple processors Ive owned over the years. I would run it again.
 

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Quick question. Just bought a Marantz AV7705 and ran Audyssey in my home theater. I’ve heard Audyssey can get the speaker distances completely wrong. My room is 17 ft wide and 22 ft long. Room was dead silence during calibration. Mic was on a tripod. Audyssey speaker distances in my 7.1 system came out anywhere from 45 ft to 49 ft from Main listening position after calibration. The speakers are actually 12 ft to 10 ft from the mail listening position. Is this normal to get such a ridiculous reading from Audyssey? I went back in after calibration and changed the distances. Everything sounds good. With such a weird reading should I assume the whole calibration process might be off. Speaker levels all matched fine using my decibel meter.

Thanks

Hi,

Audyssey simply measures the arrival time of the sound from the various channels. Subwoofer timing never corresponds exactly to the physical distance from the MLP, because the subwoofer amplifier and its internal processing add some delay to the signal coming from the AVR. Speakers which are entirely powered by the AVR don't introduce any internal delay. So, if Audyssey is operating properly, the speaker distances will be correct.

In this case, I would conclude that Audyssey is not operating properly, especially since the distances are off by so much. And, even if things sound okay, I would not have confidence in the calibration. The first thing I would do is to consult my owner's manual on how to do a microprocessor reset. Doing one, or even two resets, will insure that the AVR is operating according to factory default settings. Sometimes, microprocessors in computers, phones, etc just glitch. Afterwards, I would run another Audyssey calibration.

If that doesn't fix the problem, then I would replace the Audyssey microphone. I believe it is more likely to be the AVR that is glitching than it is a defective microphone. But, the last time I thought that, it turned out to be the microphone after all. ;)

Just try those trouble-shooting tips, in that order. There is also nothing wrong with doing another calibration to confirm the problem, before doing a microprocessor reset, if you want to try that.

Regards,
Mike
 

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Quick question. Just bought a Marantz AV7705 and ran Audyssey in my home theater. I’ve heard Audyssey can get the speaker distances completely wrong. My room is 17 ft wide and 22 ft long. Room was dead silence during calibration. Mic was on a tripod. Audyssey speaker distances in my 7.1 system came out anywhere from 45 ft to 49 ft from Main listening position after calibration. The speakers are actually 12 ft to 10 ft from the mail listening position. Is this normal to get such a ridiculous reading from Audyssey? I went back in after calibration and changed the distances. Everything sounds good. With such a weird reading should I assume the whole calibration process might be off. Speaker levels all matched fine using my decibel meter.

Thanks
Appreciate all the recommendations. I ran Audyssey again and it recorded the speakers distances correctly. All is good. It sounds much better than the original calibration. Center channel sounds better and my 4 subs sound tighter. I am happy with the results.

Regards,
 

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Hopefully a simple issue: starting with a 5.1.2 setup I have the sub enabled in the Speaker settings of my Denon X1300W, but after I run and apply an Audyssey calibrate the sub's setting gets set to disabled (Subwoofer = no). If I turn the sub back on, Audyssey gets disabled I lose the options like Dynamic EQ.
 

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Hopefully a simple issue: starting with a 5.1.2 setup I have the sub enabled in the Speaker settings of my Denon X1300W, but after I run and apply an Audyssey calibrate the sub's setting gets set to disabled (Subwoofer = no). If I turn the sub back on, Audyssey gets disabled I lose the options like Dynamic EQ.
Does the subwoofer make sound during the measurement stage?
 

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Changed from rca and now using xlr interconnects and updated speaker cable from amp to wall sockets. Do i need to re calibrate.
 

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Changed from rca and now using xlr interconnects and updated speaker cable from amp to wall sockets. Do i need to re calibrate.

I doubt if these changes would make a difference. If they do, I would think it is a little like adding (or subtracting, etc.) a constant. Your speaker cable has been changed for all channels, as have your interconnects (I assume).



The differences that different cable resistance, capacitance, etc., would make would be pretty minor unless the runs are extremely long.



I might re-calibrate, but chiefly to humor my OCD. Taking a Zoloft might be equally effective.
 

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Interconnects yes all channels, all my speaker cable is in wall up to a wall plate near the rear of the amp. Different speaker cable only from Denon Poaa1hd amp to wall plate.I am sleeving/ making 11x1metre speaker cables for amp to wall plate. The XLR’s are the major change from RCA to Mogami studio gold XLR.I was told could be a few decibels louder. Will try it out when all cables arrive.Was just debating weather to rerun calibration if that was the case.
 

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Guys, I am going from 7.1.4 to a 7.1.6 system soon. So I am planning on using two more SVS prime elevations on my left and right side wall as my Top Middles (Atmos) / Surround Heights (DTSX). My room is a long rectangle and so my front and rear prime elevations are placed all the way to the top near the 9ft ceiling so by that angle they can drop the sound right above the middle of my room (the MLP).

My question is for the Top Middles/Surround Heights, should the prime elevations be placed all the way to the top near the ceiling as well and sort of throw the sound over and beyond the MLP (remember this a rectangle room so the side walls are much closer to the MLP than say front or back) OR should they be placed a little lower so the angle is right on top of me? I also have to be mindful of actual Side Surround Speakers on these walls and need to make sure there's enough gap between the two. Any advice on the height is appreciated, thanks.
 

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Guys, I am going from 7.1.4 to a 7.1.6 system soon. So I am planning on using two more SVS prime elevations on my left and right side wall as my Top Middles (Atmos) / Surround Heights (DTSX). My room is a long rectangle and so my front and rear prime elevations are placed all the way to the top near the 9ft ceiling so by that angle they can drop the sound right above the middle of my room (the MLP).

My question is for the Top Middles/Surround Heights, should the prime elevations be placed all the way to the top near the ceiling as well and sort of throw the sound over and beyond the MLP (remember this a rectangle room so the side walls are much closer to the MLP than say front or back) OR should they be placed a little lower so the angle is right on top of me? I also have to be mindful of actual Side Surround Speakers on these walls and need to make sure there's enough gap between the two. Any advice on the height is appreciated, thanks.

Can you post

  • Drawings of the alternatives, with distances.
  • Room dimensions, L,W, H.
 

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Hello, all the sudden the L/R Bypass option on Audyssey setup menu disappeared on me. I had to re-run audyssey after 4 years and by my dismay I can’t now get this option back and I was wondering whether it’s just me or whether this is a company decision to eliminate it from the software by choice or is this a bug I have. I would I appreciate any info you might have. Thanks.
 

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Hello, all the sudden the L/R Bypass option on Audyssey setup menu disappeared on me. I had to re-run audyssey after 4 years and by my dismay I can’t now get this option back and I was wondering whether it’s just me or whether this is a company decision to eliminate it from the software by choice or is this a bug I have. I would I appreciate any info you might have. Thanks.
The option is still there for me, so I think it may be a bug on your end. Did you use the app and do you have the latest version?

Either way, just it again in case it's just a time thing.
 
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