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I don't know if this has been mentioned before but tonight I turned on my P70 to find the picture ridiculously black, literally the whole movie I was watching was dark. I thought my settings had been reset so I checked them against Googer's (the settings I use on my set) and they were the same. I then turned the TV off (Not a hard reset just using standbye on the remote) and on again and to my surprise it seemed to clear everything up.

Is this some sort of bug with the latest firmware? I am running 1.1.14.

I previously mentioned not being able to rename my saved settings even when Kyle offered to help it hasn't worked for me. I am assuming these are all bugs and not the television set I own.
 

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Thanks for the very detailed explanation. I'm not sure I can keep up with all of it but I do agree that I often find myself changing backlight and or brightness just slightly depending on lighting conditions. I shall try your four, or was it five, sets of settings and see how it looks. Now, and I've asked this question previously, can I save any or all of these under a name for convenience. I can't remember the problem with saving under a name that was once there. Is it still a problem and do any of these methods you are using or what I did with Superkyle's(Normal & Computer) get around the problem? What was the problem again?
I have not tried any renaming, so I'm afraid you will have to give it a try and report back if it caused any problems.

I use Calibrated Dark, Calibrated, Standard, and Vivid. After you have changed any of the settings from default values, these will show as Calibrated Dark*, Calibrated*, Standard* and Vivid*.

I didn't feel any need to rename these and found the stock names to be fine.

Renaming HDMI inputs from HDMI5 to PS3, HDMI 4 to Bluray, and HDMI 3 to PC was more valuable in my case...
 

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Fafrd's official latest and greatest P70 Calibration

(Updated 1/28/15 for FW revision 1.1.14)

I have completed a new calibration following release of FW 1.1.14

This calibration is for HDMI 1-4 and ViaApps including streaming.

For HDMI 5, an adjustment of the Color setting should allow the same calibration to be used, and I will circle back withan update when I get around to calibrating HDMI 5 as well.

This calibration is primarily intended for dark-room viewing of movies in Calibrated Dark at a peak brightness of ~100 cd/m2 but allows easy 1-touch bright room viewing based on the same color settings.

hDMI 1-4 & ViaApps including streaming

Picture settings for ~100cd/m2:

Picture Mode: Calibrated Dark
Backlight: 30
Brightness: 50
Contrast: 50
Color: 50
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 0

More Picture settings:

Color Temperature: Normal
Black Detail: Off
Active LED Zones: On
Smooth Motion Effect: Off
Clear Action: Off
Reduce Signal Noise: Off
Reduce Block Noise: Off
Game Low Latency: Off
Film Mode: Auto
Gamma: 2.4

Color Calibration Color Tuner Settings

Hue: R 0, G 25, B -6, C -2, M 4, Y -15
Saturation: R 0, G -10, B 0, C 3, M 0, Y -15
Brightness: R 12, G -1, B 4, C -1, M 2, Y 1
Offset: R 0, G 0, B 0
Gain: R 0, G 0, B 0

Color Calibration 11 Point White Balance Settings:

IRE% R G B
5% 3 4 -14
10% 0 0 1
20% 0 1 0
30% 0. 1 -2
40% -2 5 -2
50% -1 1 0
60% -5 5 -2
70% -9 0 -5
80% -8 3 -6
90% -16 -3 -9
100% -10 0 5


The Color Toner Settings can probably be copied to another P70 to result in improved color accuracy. The 11-pt settings should not be copied and are only provided for completeness.

This Calibrated Dark calibration of Normal Color at ~100 cd/m2 maps pretty well to brighter output settings and. I have them mapped as follows (everything below assumes that the default settings for all modes are overwritten and the Calibrated Dark settings as summarized above are copied into all modes except for the changes /exceptions summarized below):

Calibrated with Gamma at 2.2 puts out ~150 cd/m2

Standard with Backlight at 60 and Gamma at 2.1 puts out ~250 cd/m2

Vivid with Backlight at 100, ALZ Off, and Gamma at 2.0 puts out ~400 cd/m2


Used in this way, the PIC button on the remote can be used to quickly and easily switch to brighter modes at the touch of a button.
fafrd said - "The Color Toner Settings can probably be copied to another P70 to result in improved color accuracy. The 11-pt settings should not be copied and are only provided for completeness." and "But for anyone copying settings from this thread without using a meter, I really suggest you try copying CMS only (without including Gain and Offset) and try configuring different viewing modes based off of a single shared CMS using Backlight and Gamma only. It makes it much easier for family members to get to a brighter image when they want without screwing up calibration presets and it allows 4 or even 5 (with Game Mode) preset brightness levels to be available at the touch of a button (PIC) rather than just 2."

I like this approach and, short of getting my own meter and other calibration material, makes the most sense for a "multi-user" environment (read wife). However, you indicate that the CMS settings are lilely able to be used across different P70 sets, yet there appears to be a pretty large difference in your, Googer and Superkyle's CMS settings?
 

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Sorry, didn't mean to repeat the wall of past text. My other question is that be tween the three sets of calibration, two appeared to have set the Backlight at 100 and one is at 30 - seems like a pretty big difference - is this a result of different approaches to the calibration process?
 

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Sorry, didn't mean to repeat the wall of past text. My other question is that be tween the three sets of calibration, two appeared to have set the Backlight at 100 and one is at 30 - seems like a pretty big difference - is this a result of different approaches to the calibration process?

If you check his posts in this thread he explains why he did what he did. He's even done so within the past 2-3 weeks.


Sent from nowhere
 

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fafrd said - "The Color Toner Settings can probably be copied to another P70 to result in improved color accuracy. The 11-pt settings should not be copied and are only provided for completeness." and "But for anyone copying settings from this thread without using a meter, I really suggest you try copying CMS only (without including Gain and Offset) and try configuring different viewing modes based off of a single shared CMS using Backlight and Gamma only. It makes it much easier for family members to get to a brighter image when they want without screwing up calibration presets and it allows 4 or even 5 (with Game Mode) preset brightness levels to be available at the touch of a button (PIC) rather than just 2."

I like this approach and, short of getting my own meter and other calibration material, makes the most sense for a "multi-user" environment (read wife). However, you indicate that the CMS settings are lilely able to be used across different P70 sets, yet there appears to be a pretty large difference in your, Googer and Superkyle's CMS settings?
Partly, different ways of skinning the same cat.

But also, different objectives.

You can calibrate to have the most accurate primary/secondary colors and use color checker to assure that many/most colors used in content are not too far off (primarily skin colors) or you can calibrate primaries and secondaries to get the most accurate Color Checker results and then check primary/secondary saturation sweeps to assure that none of the primary/secondary colors likely to show up in content are too far off.

On a perfectly calibrateable display, these two objectives should be closely aligned and results of either of these two approaches should appear very similar.

The P70 is not perfectly calibrateable (especially fully-saturated Red) and so while the usual (first) calibration approach will work fine, it will give slightly different results than the second approach followed by me.

As a final factor, my 'gentle' calibration left RGB Gain and Offset at 0 (and relied only on 11-pt for greyscale calibration) while the more common approach taken by Googer and others calibrates greyscale using Gain and Offset before moving to 11-pt.

In principle, RGB Gain and Offset is supposed to be independent from primary/secondary Hue, Saturation, and Brightness, but the reality falls short of that ideal.

But as a general rule, you should find that the magnitude of various CMS settings varies more than their direction (though since all 3 controls are interrelated, you will also see that there are many ways of skinning the same cat).
 

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Sorry, didn't mean to repeat the wall of past text. My other question is that be tween the three sets of calibration, two appeared to have set the Backlight at 100 and one is at 30 - seems like a pretty big difference - is this a result of different approaches to the calibration process?
I had Calibrated Dark and Calibrated both at BL30, Standard at BL60, and only Vivid at BL100, so if you see something different in any of my posts please let me know and I will correct the typo.

Calibrated Dark w/ALZ ON and BL30 = 100 cd/m2 (dark room)

Calibrated w/ALZ ON and BL30 = 150 cd/m2 (dim room)

Standard w/ALZ ON and BL60 = 250 cd/m2 (daytime)

Vivid w/ALZ OFF and BL100 = 400 cd/m2 (bright sunlight)
 

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I had Calibrated Dark and Calibrated both at BL30, Standard at BL60, and only Vivid at BL100, so if you see something different in any of my posts please let me know and I will correct the typo.

Calibrated Dark w/ALZ ON and BL30 = 100 cd/m2 (dark room)

Calibrated w/ALZ ON and BL30 = 150 cd/m2 (dim room)

Standard w/ALZ ON and BL60 = 250 cd/m2 (daytime)

Vivid w/ALZ OFF and BL100 = 400 cd/m2 (bright sunlight)

fafrd - Sorry, wasn't clear - by "between the three sets" I meant yours, Googers and Superkyles relative to Backlight intensity. In looking more closely, I'm going to guess that is because they both have CA ON while you have CA OFF?
 

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The color shift between HDMI 5 and everything else is very annoying and probably either a bug or some artifact of the low-latency of HDMI 5. I'm calibrating HDMI 4 for color accuracy and then just adjusting the color control of HDMI 5 to compensate for the color shift as well as possible.
I don't think there's any difference in dimming behavior between any inputs; the only difference appears to be Calibrated Dark compared to other modes, something that's still true in 1.1.14. As far as I can tell, from a static picture quality point-of-view, HDMI 5's only difference is reduced saturation, which is easily compensated for by increasing the color setting. Motion-handling is a different matter - I definitely find HDMI 1-4's upconversion of 1080i to be superior to HDMI 5's (fewer artifacts in deinterlacing). 720p and 1080p look to be handled just fine on HDMI 5 though; definitely a good thing, since those are used by gaming consoles and PC's that aren't up to handling 4K resolutions. :)
Fafrd/Googer/(and others): You both seems to be talking above bout some known issues with HDMI 5, and I am wondering if this may be the same issue I am experiencing on my P702ui-b3. Can you please review my scenario below and comment on if what I am experiencing is similar/or can be explained?


I only use OTA (no cable/dish) so I am running OTA cable into the Vizio and rely on the ARC from the Vizio P702 HDMI1 output to be the HDMI input to my Pioneer SC-1223-K AVR in order to get TV sound through my receiver. I also have a Blu-ray and Xbox 360 connected to my Pioneer. For the most part, this setup has worked well with my picture settings when I only had a single HDMI running from the Pioneer AVR to the vision HDMI 1 (as this is the only HDMI with ARC). When I read that HDMI 5 was better for Gaming, I figured I would utilize that for my xBox 360. Since my Pioneer has the ability to have a 2nd HDMI out, I connected a 2nd HDMI cable from the Pioneer to the Vizio HDMI 5. Now I setup the Pioneer to basically output all HDMI signals through both outputs simultaneously and when I am watching a blu ray, I put the Vizio on HDMI 1 and when I am on the xbox I can switich the Vizio to HDMI 5. This allows me to still have all sound run through the Pioneer and minimize the cables running to the Vizio.


I am not sure my picture issue that I am going to explain coincided with the HDMI 5 added to the system, but I am thinking it did. Anyway, I use the xbox a lot for Windows Media Center viewing or recorded TV programs and I noticed that when my WMC logo would boot up, the lettering with a black background changed such that the black background was not all that black anymore and there was a lot of light being shown like the backlight was turned up high. After a while I started trying to trouble shoot this as my picture settings did not change. Now, this is where I am at a lost for an explanation. I have my HDMI 1 and HDMI 5 picture settings identical. After I boot up my WMC and I go into my picture settings for HDMI 1, the setting are as expected, but I can tell the picture is not correct - again, it appears the backlight is turned up way too high. If I simply change the input of the Vizio to HDMI 5 from HDM 1, the picture settings go back to what I was expecting where the black background is not washed out. Again, I made no changes to the picture settings as both HDMI 1 and HDMI 5 are both set to Calibrated Dark. If I do nothing else and switch the Vizio back to HDMI 1, the picture setting are still correct and the black background looks nice and black. So in summary, anytime the system is first turned on, the picture when using HDMI 1 gets messed up and the picture settings are not correct (even though they show me that they are still the same) and by doing nothing else but swapping from HDMI 1 to HDMI 5 and back again, it fixes the picture settings.


To further trouble shoot, I disconnected the HDMI 5 Cable from the Vizio and re-started my system (like it originally was before I tried to start using HDMI 5). Now when I start the xbox and still using HDMI 1, the picture settings are good. I than wanted to see what happen if set up the system to keep the HDMI 1 connected to the Pioneer as always, but instead of running the 2nd output of the Pioneer into HDM1 5, I used HDMI 2 on the vizio. Basically what I was trying to determine here is if I had a bad cable of if the 2nd output from the Pioneer was somehow bad. So again, I have two HDMI cables coming from the Pioneer and going into HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 on the visio. Now when I turn on the xbox to watch WMC, the picture quality is once again perfect on HDMI 1. This told me my cables are good and my Pioneer output is good.


So for whatever reason, when I have something connected to HDMI 5 into the vizio, it messes up my picture calibration on HDMI 1 even through I make no picture calibrations changes. And, if I swap between HDMI 1 to HDMI 5 and than back to HDMI 1 again, it fixed the picture calibration.


I realize this was likely pretty confusing, but is there any explanation to what I am experiencing to what you two were seeing related to HDMI 5 behaving differently?


Lastly, sorry for my now very basic questions, but what does CMS stand for that I see everyone reference?
 

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Buzzard I may need a little help. Ok so after a week of learning and tweaking by eye. I still haven't gotten anywhere with this p60. Starting from calibrated dark, I can't get greens close, I'm sorry but Not all vegetation should look like Costa Rica on miracle grow.

If starting from standard computer or vivid, skin tones go from dead person blue, to sunburn. Then when I get the skin right, the clouds are just weird. Any simple adjustments I can try before heading back to Costco with this thing?

I really don't want to spend money on a calibration kit. id just as soon try a Samsung 8550.

I am Also getting dropped picture on hdmi 5 at 120hz while gaming.
Thanks guys
 

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fafrd - Sorry, wasn't clear - by "between the three sets" I meant yours, Googers and Superkyles relative to Backlight intensity. In looking more closely, I'm going to guess that is because they both have CA ON while you have CA OFF?
Yes, CA knocks back light output significantly, which can be compensated for by increasing Backlight.

The early calibrators on firmware 1.0.0 reported better results with CA on, so their calibrations generally have CA ON and Backlight at higher levels than mine.

My O70 came loaded with FW 1.0.4.1 and I saw no advantage to having CA on other than the loss of brightness and the need to increase Backlight closer to its max value.

So my calibrations all have CA off and Backlight levels lower than most of the others.

In my testing of CA, it does nothing to picture quality unless adore Motion is ON. So if I am watching fast-action OTA Sports, I will choose a brighter mode such as Standard or Vivid, turn on SME and CA to improve motion resolution (at the cost of bringing brightness to the usual range).

I may eventually capture those best-motion settings in a Game mode (meaning Sports, not Vodeo Games :), but I'm watching OTA Sports so rarely theses days, I just do it manually for the occasional exception such as the recent Super Bolwl for now.

Testing of motion resolution and the effect of settings such as SME and CA is one thing everyone can do reasonably well with their eyeballs and without needing a meter.

Both the AVSHD709 and the GCD test pattern disks (free here on the Forum) include motion patterns at various framerates. By playing these motion patterns through your Bluray player or tjhrough USB, you can see the effect of turning on SME and the small incremental improvement possible by turning on CA beyond that (and also that CA ON with SME OFF does almost nothing).
 

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Fafrd/Googer/(and others): You both seems to be talking above bout some known issues with HDMI 5, and I am wondering if this may be the same issue I am experiencing on my P702ui-b3. Can you please review my scenario below and comment on if what I am experiencing is similar/or can be explained?


I only use OTA (no cable/dish) so I am running OTA cable into the Vizio and rely on the ARC from the Vizio P702 HDMI1 output to be the HDMI input to my Pioneer SC-1223-K AVR in order to get TV sound through my receiver. I also have a Blu-ray and Xbox 360 connected to my Pioneer. For the most part, this setup has worked well with my picture settings when I only had a single HDMI running from the Pioneer AVR to the vision HDMI 1 (as this is the only HDMI with ARC). When I read that HDMI 5 was better for Gaming, I figured I would utilize that for my xBox 360. Since my Pioneer has the ability to have a 2nd HDMI out, I connected a 2nd HDMI cable from the Pioneer to the Vizio HDMI 5. Now I setup the Pioneer to basically output all HDMI signals through both outputs simultaneously and when I am watching a blu ray, I put the Vizio on HDMI 1 and when I am on the xbox I can switich the Vizio to HDMI 5. This allows me to still have all sound run through the Pioneer and minimize the cables running to the Vizio.


I am not sure my picture issue that I am going to explain coincided with the HDMI 5 added to the system, but I am thinking it did. Anyway, I use the xbox a lot for Windows Media Center viewing or recorded TV programs and I noticed that when my WMC logo would boot up, the lettering with a black background changed such that the black background was not all that black anymore and there was a lot of light being shown like the backlight was turned up high. After a while I started trying to trouble shoot this as my picture settings did not change. Now, this is where I am at a lost for an explanation. I have my HDMI 1 and HDMI 5 picture settings identical. After I boot up my WMC and I go into my picture settings for HDMI 1, the setting are as expected, but I can tell the picture is not correct - again, it appears the backlight is turned up way too high. If I simply change the input of the Vizio to HDMI 5 from HDM 1, the picture settings go back to what I was expecting where the black background is not washed out. Again, I made no changes to the picture settings as both HDMI 1 and HDMI 5 are both set to Calibrated Dark. If I do nothing else and switch the Vizio back to HDMI 1, the picture setting are still correct and the black background looks nice and black. So in summary, anytime the system is first turned on, the picture when using HDMI 1 gets messed up and the picture settings are not correct (even though they show me that they are still the same) and by doing nothing else but swapping from HDMI 1 to HDMI 5 and back again, it fixes the picture settings.


To further trouble shoot, I disconnected the HDMI 5 Cable from the Vizio and re-started my system (like it originally was before I tried to start using HDMI 5). Now when I start the xbox and still using HDMI 1, the picture settings are good. I than wanted to see what happen if set up the system to keep the HDMI 1 connected to the Pioneer as always, but instead of running the 2nd output of the Pioneer into HDM1 5, I used HDMI 2 on the vizio. Basically what I was trying to determine here is if I had a bad cable of if the 2nd output from the Pioneer was somehow bad. So again, I have two HDMI cables coming from the Pioneer and going into HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 on the visio. Now when I turn on the xbox to watch WMC, the picture quality is once again perfect on HDMI 1. This told me my cables are good and my Pioneer output is good.


So for whatever reason, when I have something connected to HDMI 5 into the vizio, it messes up my picture calibration on HDMI 1 even through I make no picture calibrations changes. And, if I swap between HDMI 1 to HDMI 5 and than back to HDMI 1 again, it fixed the picture calibration.


I realize this was likely pretty confusing, but is there any explanation to what I am experiencing to what you two were seeing related to HDMI 5 behaving differently?


Lastly, sorry for my now very basic questions, but what does CMS stand for that I see everyone reference?
I only use a single HDMI input for my Bluray player, so unfortunately, I have no experience with this issue you are seeing.

It sounds like it might be a bug, in which case, confirming if other owners experience the same thing would be helpful before reporting to Vizio. That subject is more appropriate for the owner's thread rather than here on the Calibration thread.

CMS is Color Management Syatem -the advanced calibration settings to adjust the color accuracy of the image being put out by your TV.
 

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Buzzard I may need a little help. Ok so after a week of learning and tweaking by eye. I still haven't gotten anywhere with this p60. Starting from calibrated dark, I can't get greens close, I'm sorry but Not all vegetation should look like Costa Rica on miracle grow.

If starting from standard computer or vivid, skin tones go from dead person blue, to sunburn. Then when I get the skin right, the clouds are just weird. Any simple adjustments I can try before heading back to Costco with this thing?

I really don't want to spend money on a calibration kit. id just as soon try a Samsung 8550.

I am Also getting dropped picture on hdmi 5 at 120hz while gaming.
Thanks guys
Since Buzz767 decided to return his P60 due to poor off-angle viewing, I am not sure how much time he is spending on this thread.

I don't have a P60 but rather a P70, but since they are both based on Sharp panels, they should be similar.

If you don't want to mess around with a calibration kit (meter), you should probably limit yourself to basic settings and stay away from CMS and 11-pt.

If you download the AVSHD709 disc here on the forun (free), it will provide patterns and a tutorial to get the basic settings as close as possible using your eyeballs.

Reset your P60 to start from scratch, adjust Brightness and Contrast using the appropriate patterns, then Backlight to taste, and then adjust Color and Tind tint to taste on content.

For basic and advanced, everything should be OFF except Activev LED Zones. For viewing in the dark, a Calibrated Dark is best (increase Backlight if you want a brighter image) and you can try both gamma 2.4 and 2.2 and choose whichever you prefer.

The image quality and color accuracy of the P70/P60 is far better based on basic and advanced settings only (no CMS or 11-pt), so I suspect you have tried copying Buz767s CMS and 11-pt settings for his P60, which is always a crapshoot (and not recommended), and especially unlikely to be successful when there has been a firmware change in the meantime.

My advice is to reset and start over. Try Basic and Advanced settings for the P70 w/ FW 1.1.14 from Superkyle, Googer, or myself (leaving CMS and 11-pt at 0) and perhaps try your own basic settings using AVSHD709 tutorial.

Between those 4 options, if you can not get a very acceptable image out of your P60, it is probably defective.
 

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Since Buzz767 decided to return his P60 due to poor off-angle viewing, I am not sure how much time he is spending on this thread.

I don't have a P60 but rather a P70, but since they are both based on Sharp panels, they should be similar.

If you don't want to mess around with a calibration kit (meter), you should probably limit yourself to basic settings and stay away from CMS and 11-pt.

If you download the AVSHD709 disc here on the forun (free), it will provide patterns and a tutorial to get the basic settings as close as possible using your eyeballs.

Reset your P60 to start from scratch, adjust Brightness and Contrast using the appropriate patterns, then Backlight to taste, and then adjust Color and Tind tint to taste on content.

For basic and advanced, everything should be OFF except Activev LED Zones. For viewing in the dark, a Calibrated Dark is best (increase Backlight if you want a brighter image) and you can try both gamma 2.4 and 2.2 and choose whichever you prefer.

The image quality and color accuracy of the P70/P60 is far better based on basic and advanced settings only (no CMS or 11-pt), so I suspect you have tried copying Buz767s CMS and 11-pt settings for his P60, which is always a crapshoot (and not recommended), and especially unlikely to be successful when there has been a firmware change in the meantime.

My advice is to reset and start over. Try Basic and Advanced settings for the P70 w/ FW 1.1.14 from Superkyle, Googer, or myself (leaving CMS and 11-pt at 0) and perhaps try your own basic settings using AVSHD709 tutorial.

Between those 4 options, if you can not get a very acceptable image out of your P60, it is probably defective.
awesome, ive still got plenty of time to tinker as i bought from costco. Copying the 11 point stuff results in a train wreck so i stopped playing with that. I did download a thx app with a red filter camera for ios, but that only calibrated red and tint. which got OTA looking well, but sunburned everyone on the vizio apps.

I will try your recommendation to see if i can get anywhere with it. Honestly i would normally have given up, but the blacks are soooo nice on this set, its worth some work
Thank you
 

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awesome, ive still got plenty of time to tinker as i bought from costco. Copying the 11 point stuff results in a train wreck so i stopped playing with that. I did download a thx app with a red filter camera for ios, but that only calibrated red and tint. which got OTA looking well, but sunburned everyone on the vizio apps.

I will try your recommendation to see if i can get anywhere with it. Honestly i would normally have given up, but the blacks are soooo nice on this set, its worth some work
Thank you

See buzz's link on page one for help alleviating the "sunburn" look.


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Ok, the P60 is looking looking much better after tonights tweaks. After watching a newer samsung at a friends house for an hour, i can say that the Vizio does alot right... The Sammy had slightly better viewing angle, but the Viz seemed better in everything else
 

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Ok, the P60 is looking looking much better after tonights tweaks. After watching a newer samsung at a friends house for an hour, i can say that the Vizio does alot right... The Sammy had slightly better viewing angle, but the Viz seemed better in everything else
My settings for the P60 are likely no longer valid due to changes implemented via firmware. A new calibration is required and I don't have one handy. I'll be in the Phoenix area for the month of March if anyone has one.
 

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Buzz I did start from your old settings but had to drop brightness, to keep things from being too light and hazy. That said this was only done with the OTA broadcast tuner. As a cord cutter, one of my missions was decent looking 1080i, and we're nearly there. What I didn't expect was a much nicer 720p picture, and that may be due to vizio not overscanning..Better football!!
 
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