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I'll be burning that calibration bluray ISO later, and will check to see if I'm seeing enough dark detail.

I would like to get a nice vivid setting for hdmi 5 that isn't too bright. I played grid autosport in 4k and driving into the sun was almost as blinding as the real thing. Polarized sunglasses? :)
 

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Buzz I did start from your old settings but had to drop brightness, to keep things from being too light and hazy. That said this was only done with the OTA broadcast tuner. As a cord cutter, one of my missions was decent looking 1080i, and we're nearly there. What I didn't expect was a much nicer 720p picture, and that may be due to vizio not overscanning..Better football!!
By "brightness" are you referring to overall luminance? It's controlled by Back Light, not the Brightness Control.
 

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Backlight at 27 and brightness near 50 produced an overall light image with poor blacks and very light grays
On Calibrated Dark with Contrast and Brightness both at 50, Active LED Zones ON and CLear Action Off, Backlight of 27 -30 should deliver an image close to 100 cd/m2 suitable for dark-room viewing.

Same settings with Calibrated should deliver close to 150 cd/m2 suitable for dim-room to daytime viewing.

If ALZ is off, luminance levels with be significantly higher than this and black levels will suffer.

Provide all of your Basic and Advanced settings and will try to help debug...
 

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Ok where I'm at
Cal dark
Backlight 27, brightness 44 contrast 50, color 47, tint 0, sharp 0

Normal, black detail off, zones on, smooth off, ca off, noises off, Gll off
 

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Ok where I'm at
Cal dark
Backlight 27, brightness 44 contrast 50, color 47, tint 0, sharp 0

Normal, black detail off, zones on, smooth off, ca off, noises off, Gll off
On a P70 at least, those setting should provide a very dark image suitable for viewing in a dark-room environment. If blacks are not black but dark grey, something is wrong.

how does the black pluge pattern look (blinking dark grey bars of increasing intensity on a black background)??
 

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Yes, CA knocks back light output significantly, which can be compensated for by increasing Backlight.

The early calibrators on firmware 1.0.0 reported better results with CA on, so their calibrations generally have CA ON and Backlight at higher levels than mine.

My O70 came loaded with FW 1.0.4.1 and I saw no advantage to having CA on other than the loss of brightness and the need to increase Backlight closer to its max value.

So my calibrations all have CA off and Backlight levels lower than most of the others.

In my testing of CA, it does nothing to picture quality unless adore Motion is ON. So if I am watching fast-action OTA Sports, I will choose a brighter mode such as Standard or Vivid, turn on SME and CA to improve motion resolution (at the cost of bringing brightness to the usual range).

I may eventually capture those best-motion settings in a Game mode (meaning Sports, not Vodeo Games :), but I'm watching OTA Sports so rarely theses days, I just do it manually for the occasional exception such as the recent Super Bolwl for now.

Testing of motion resolution and the effect of settings such as SME and CA is one thing everyone can do reasonably well with their eyeballs and without needing a meter.

Both the AVSHD709 and the GCD test pattern disks (free here on the Forum) include motion patterns at various framerates. By playing these motion patterns through your Bluray player or tjhrough USB, you can see the effect of turning on SME and the small incremental improvement possible by turning on CA beyond that (and also that CA ON with SME OFF does almost nothing).
fafrd - Much Thx for the straightforward explanation. I generally prefer to have "headroom" on settings so having Backlight at 100 (other than when trying to get the brightest (luminance) picture possible) doesn't appeal to me as much as your approach. Last question regrading CMS settings. You noted that CMS settings likely (might?) carryover from set to set (11 pt definitely does not) yet there are pretty big differences in the CMS values (ignoring Gain and Offset) between yours, Googer's and Superkyle's. Would this possibly be the result of differences in approach to calibration, or, the fact that they both adjusted either Gain or Offset (and you left yours at 0's), or, just due to differences in the sets? Thanks for yours and others patience with these types of "noob" questions.
 

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fafrd - Much Thx for the straightforward explanation. I generally prefer to have "headroom" on settings so having Backlight at 100 (other than when trying to get the brightest (luminance) picture possible) doesn't appeal to me as much as your approach. Last question regrading CMS settings. You noted that CMS settings likely (might?) carryover from set to set (11 pt definitely does not) yet there are pretty big differences in the CMS values (ignoring Gain and Offset) between yours, Googer's and Superkyle's. Would this possibly be the result of differences in approach to calibration, or, the fact that they both adjusted either Gain or Offset (and you left yours at 0's), or, just due to differences in the sets? Thanks for yours and others patience with these types of "noob" questions.
I suspect set variation on colors/CMS is minor (which is why CMS settings are more likely to copy successfully).

Differences in Gain and Offset should net cause significant differences in H, S, B CMS settings in theory, but this is only in theory.

CMS is a theoretical system to amp color space based on three primary color filters into a computation bases on Luminance (light intensity independent of wafelengh/ color), Hue (the specific 'color direction' or non-white component to the light being output), and Saturation (the magnitude or mix of non-white color to white color - so 0% saturation is with while 100% saturation is only that specific target color with no white coo ent on the mixture). If greyscale/11-pt/gain&doff set adjusts the position and height of the white tent pole at the center of the tent, Hue and Saturation adjust the precise location of the 3 primary and 3 secondary tent poles around that central whitepoint, and the Brightness adjusts the height of these primary and secondary tent poles white the goal of having a nice flat tent roof over the entire colorspace with whitepoint, primaries and secondaries exactly where they should be.

The intention of this colorspace mapping is to be able to adjust light output (Luminosity as a function of input) independently from color (specific Hue, Saturation and Brightness of each primary and secondary) but in the end, all of this theory results in complex computations ending up with an amount of color filter (fixed by manufacturing) Red, Green and Blue combined for any specific 24-bit (8-bits per Rec.709 primary).

Long-winded answer to explain that there are al past inevitably some non-idealities and compromises in any CMS implementation resulting in more interference between greyscale and CMS calibration than the complete independence intended by the theory. So whil our differing approaches to Gain Offset should have little impact on our CMS results, there is likely to be some impact.

More importantly, these three CMS variables of Hue, Saturation, and Brightness are intended to be independent but are interrelated and are able to contribute to the same target change to varying degrees. This is the 'different ways to skin a cat' argument, and two apparently differing CMS calibrations can actually result in very similar actual results. Bile learning/practicing, I have probably completed over 10 different calibrations of the P70, starting from scratch each time and using a slightly different workflow of sequence each time. The results in terms of settings have been quite different but in terms of image quality, I doubt I could have told them apart.

So that is probably a significant factor in the variation you are seeing between various members calibration values - if I were to post all 10 of mine, you would probably see even more variation within results coming from the same TV.

It is that experience with various attempts to achieve the same end result that has led me to prefer more 'mild' calibrations over more extreme calibrations that may line up a specific primary wavelength a bit more accurately, but at the expense of increases color and/or luminance innaccuracy over the remainder of the tent's roof.

And so lastly is the factor of what is being optimized by the calibration and this is probably the. Out significant factor in the variations between various calibrators results.

Rather that optimize the accuracy of primaries and secondaries, my preferred calibrations have checked every single 'click' change to CMS values against the skin tones color checker. Any small change that might result in improved primary accuracy (even significant improvemete, especially in the case of Red) was backed out if it resulted in worsened skin color checker results.

This was more painful and tedious (and would have been impossible if not for the HCFR patern generator which allowed automatic color checker testing), but it essentially means that my calibration optimized very good skin color checker results and acceptable primary color accuracy while a more standard approach to calibration would result in very good primary/secondary accuracy and acceptable color checker results.

Again, for an ideally-calibrateable display, these two approaches should result in exactly the same results, but since the P70 is. It perfectly calibrataeble (especially fully-saturated Red), this may explain some differences I results,

I have not made a careful comparison, but in general, it should that the 'directions' of these various same-panel calibrations is similar and mainly magnitudes of these changes differs. It should be rare that you see a large '+' value in one CMS and a large '-' in the same setting of another CMS. On the other hand, H, S, B are related and one or a combination of two can be traded off for another (different ways to skin the cat).

The good news is that, punching in any of these CMS calibration should result in a very similar image in terms of color accuracy coming off of your P70 as the P70 of the calibrator that posted it.

So you can safely try out each of these CMS and choose the one you like best. For a non-perfectly-calibrataeble TV like the P70, you will not be able to achieve perfect color accuracy and some modest trade offs will be required, so it all boils down to taste and preference since there is no single 'right' answer...
 

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I suspect set variation on colors/CMS is minor (which is why CMS settings are more likely to copy successfully).

Differences in Gain and Offset should net cause significant differences in H, S, B CMS settings in theory, but this is only in theory.

CMS is a theoretical system to amp color space based on three primary color filters into a computation bases on Luminance (light intensity independent of wafelengh/ color), Hue (the specific 'color direction' or non-white component to the light being output), and Saturation (the magnitude or mix of non-white color to white color - so 0% saturation is with while 100% saturation is only that specific target color with no white coo ent on the mixture). If greyscale/11-pt/gain&doff set adjusts the position and height of the white tent pole at the center of the tent, Hue and Saturation adjust the precise location of the 3 primary and 3 secondary tent poles around that central whitepoint, and the Brightness adjusts the height of these primary and secondary tent poles white the goal of having a nice flat tent roof over the entire colorspace with whitepoint, primaries and secondaries exactly where they should be.

The intention of this colorspace mapping is to be able to adjust light output (Luminosity as a function of input) independently from color (specific Hue, Saturation and Brightness of each primary and secondary) but in the end, all of this theory results in complex computations ending up with an amount of color filter (fixed by manufacturing) Red, Green and Blue combined for any specific 24-bit (8-bits per Rec.709 primary).

Long-winded answer to explain that there are al past inevitably some non-idealities and compromises in any CMS implementation resulting in more interference between greyscale and CMS calibration than the complete independence intended by the theory. So whil our differing approaches to Gain Offset should have little impact on our CMS results, there is likely to be some impact.

More importantly, these three CMS variables of Hue, Saturation, and Brightness are intended to be independent but are interrelated and are able to contribute to the same target change to varying degrees. This is the 'different ways to skin a cat' argument, and two apparently differing CMS calibrations can actually result in very similar actual results. Bile learning/practicing, I have probably completed over 10 different calibrations of the P70, starting from scratch each time and using a slightly different workflow of sequence each time. The results in terms of settings have been quite different but in terms of image quality, I doubt I could have told them apart.

So that is probably a significant factor in the variation you are seeing between various members calibration values - if I were to post all 10 of mine, you would probably see even more variation within results coming from the same TV.

It is that experience with various attempts to achieve the same end result that has led me to prefer more 'mild' calibrations over more extreme calibrations that may line up a specific primary wavelength a bit more accurately, but at the expense of increases color and/or luminance innaccuracy over the remainder of the tent's roof.

And so lastly is the factor of what is being optimized by the calibration and this is probably the. Out significant factor in the variations between various calibrators results.

Rather that optimize the accuracy of primaries and secondaries, my preferred calibrations have checked every single 'click' change to CMS values against the skin tones color checker. Any small change that might result in improved primary accuracy (even significant improvemete, especially in the case of Red) was backed out if it resulted in worsened skin color checker results.

This was more painful and tedious (and would have been impossible if not for the HCFR patern generator which allowed automatic color checker testing), but it essentially means that my calibration optimized very good skin color checker results and acceptable primary color accuracy while a more standard approach to calibration would result in very good primary/secondary accuracy and acceptable color checker results.

Again, for an ideally-calibrateable display, these two approaches should result in exactly the same results, but since the P70 is. It perfectly calibrataeble (especially fully-saturated Red), this may explain some differences I results,

I have not made a careful comparison, but in general, it should that the 'directions' of these various same-panel calibrations is similar and mainly magnitudes of these changes differs. It should be rare that you see a large '+' value in one CMS and a large '-' in the same setting of another CMS. On the other hand, H, S, B are related and one or a combination of two can be traded off for another (different ways to skin the cat).

The good news is that, punching in any of these CMS calibration should result in a very similar image in terms of color accuracy coming off of your P70 as the P70 of the calibrator that posted it.

So you can safely try out each of these CMS and choose the one you like best. For a non-perfectly-calibrataeble TV like the P70, you will not be able to achieve perfect color accuracy and some modest trade offs will be required, so it all boils down to taste and preference since there is no single 'right' answer...
fafrd - again, an excellent description of your approach and thought process - thanks for taking the time to explain so thoroughly
 

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Just picked up the 65 and loving it so far. Anybody got suggestions for calibration? I am going to be using the Disney wow disc for now but I'm curious how much better paying best buy to come in and do it would be?
 

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Just picked up the 65 and loving it so far. Anybody got suggestions for calibration? I am going to be using the Disney wow disc for now but I'm curious how much better paying best buy to come in and do it would be?
Save your money. Spend a little time with a search engine and you'll see why.....
 

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Just picked up the 65 and loving it so far. Anybody got suggestions for calibration? I am going to be using the Disney wow disc for now but I'm curious how much better paying best buy to come in and do it would be?
Not sure how much best buy charges, but you can pick up a decent beginner's meter for under $200 which allow you to calibrate 11-pt greyscale and white balance using freeware and free test patterns (from here on the Forum).

Color is a bit more involved, but CMS settings can be copied from other owner's of the TV to start.

You can even find outfits that will rend a basic spectro for about $35 for three data (though purchasing a meter like the i1Display pro is a better way to go if you are ever likely to calibrate again...).
 

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After the most recent firmware updates, what is everyone recommending to leave the Sharpness setting at? Should it be at 0?

It should be zero or as close to it as possible. Having it at 50 is going to cause issues. As far as latest firmware you need to be more specific. .19 is being released and many here are on .14. I don't see the sharpness making any major changes (as it hasn't in the past).


Sent from nowhere
 

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It should be zero or as close to it as possible. Having it at 50 is going to cause issues. As far as latest firmware you need to be more specific. .19 is being released and many here are on .14. I don't see the sharpness making any major changes (as it hasn't in the past).


Sent from nowhere
A couple owners have reporting being upgraded to 1.1.19 now, and at least one of those with a P60.

Do we have any other indications of widespread rollout of this new FW version? Anyone else here on the calibration thread recieve it yet? Any p70 owners who have recieved it?

And the other question is whether anyone has managed to confirm that the small remaining sharpness bug on UHD content has in fact been fixed by 1.1.19 or not?
 

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A couple owners have reporting being upgraded to 1.1.19 now, and at least one of those with a P60.



Do we have any other indications of widespread rollout of this new FW version? Anyone else here on the calibration thread recieve it yet? Any p70 owners who have recieved it?



And the other question is whether anyone has managed to confirm that the small remaining sharpness bug on UHD content has in fact been fixed by 1.1.19 or not?

There was a p70 owner in the owners thread who reported getting it. Don't think anyone who's been calibrating has received it yet or they would have posted ;) as far as the sharpness bug I think you'll need to wait for Robert Heron as he's the "main" source of reports of the fox.


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There was a p70 owner in the owners thread who reported getting it. Don't think anyone who's been calibrating has received it yet or they would have posted ;) as far as the sharpness bug I think you'll need to wait for Robert Heron as he's the "main" source of reports of the fox.


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I was the P70 owner that got the .19 update last week. Unfortunately, I don't have a calibration tool, otherwise I'd try to provide my feedback/thoughts. Looking forward to hearing the expert opinions!
 

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Received the update this morning on my P70 any idea of the changes?
1.1.14 had a remaining bug on sharpness. When watching UHD content (streaming), sharpening would be applied even when Sharpness was set to 0. The work-around was to increase Sharpness to 1and then return to 0 after starting the content.

In theory, fixing that remaining bug was the primary change being worked on, so nothing much of anything else should have changed.

We are still awaiting confirmation that the UHD sharpness bug is fixed by 1.1.19...
 
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