[Ian Wagner]

For gamma you want to match Target (uppercase) Y to Measured Y, don't try and match (lowercase) y's. To see the Target Y row you have to click the little down arrow in the view box next to "editable data".

Zoyd - Thanks. I'll give that a shot!

 

[fafrd]

fafrd,

Been looking for your settings that I think you loaded here recently but have been unable to find them. Could you point me to them?

If you go to the post immediately following the lead post in this thread, it contains a list of links to calibration settings by P-Series size. The link to my most recent settings in the the P-70 section (I just confirmed that the link works).

This is my most recent calibration with FW 1 1.14 and the i1DisplayPro meter profile correction file Superkyle shared with me.

I now have FW 1.1.19 amd the image looks the same, so I don't believe there has been any change, but if/when I create my own profile and recalibrate the P70, I will post an update.

 

[fafrd]

I'm having some issues with calibrating the p60 and was wondering if you guys could give me some insight and take a look at my charts. I have FW 1.1.19 and am working on gray scale for daytime viewing using the calibrated picture settings. Gamma is set at 2.2 and target ftL is 50. On the TV, auto brightness is set to off, color temp is normal, active led is off and so is clear action.

I'm using HCFR with a colormunki display and GCD disc. I didn't have any issues with the 2 point adjustment (pics attached) I used the 80/30 patterns to set it. My issue is with the 11 pt settings. I can't seem to get my target gamma levels that HCFR shows in my y value to match. For example, in the the 70% adjustment my target y is .326, I can adjust the RGB to get to that y level on measurement but then my dE levels are out of whack. When I try to adjust them down, my y level bumps up to .329 which puts the gamma off. Not really sure how to get those two numbers to equal out. Any suggestions? Thanks much.

As Zoyd said, ignore lowercase y.

Here is my suggestion (and how I learned).

1/ to start, leave gain and offset at 0 (ignore 2-pt) and focus primarily on using 11-pt for white balance (adjust RGB mix to get delta xy close to 0) using primarily R and B (leave G at 0 to start).

2/ this should give you correct greys in terms of color mix but possibly the wrong gamma function, so now you can focus on gamma calibration by changing R and G and B together to increase or reduce Y closer to target (G has the greatest influence on Y).

3/ starting with a straight power-law gamma of 2.2 (and ALZ off) makes sense to start and learn, and has the added benefit that you can switch the P70 gamma setting between 2.2 and 2.4 or 2.1 to see how well your 2.2 gamma calibration tracks (pretty well in my experience), but the next step will be to explore BT.1886 which means more 'forcing in' of a gamma function using 11-pt because the P70 has no setting for BT.1886, but this is primarily for improved nightime viewing by which time you will also probably want to try activating ALZ, so that is all a next stage of complexity for after you have mastered this first stage (and probably after CMS as well).

 

[Ian Wagner]

As Zoyd said, ignore lowercase y.

Here is my suggestion (and how I learned).

1/ to start, leave gain and offset at 0 (ignore 2-pt) and focus primarily on using 11-pt for white balance (adjust RGB mix to get delta xy close to 0) using primarily R and B (leave G at 0 to start).

2/ this should give you correct greys in terms of color mix but possibly the wrong gamma function, so now you can focus on gamma calibration by changing R and G and B together to increase or reduce Y closer to target (G has the greatest influence on Y).

3/ starting with a straight power-law gamma of 2.2 (and ALZ off) makes sense to start and learn, and has the added benefit that you can switch the P70 gamma setting between 2.2 and 2.4 or 2.1 to see how well your 2.2 gamma calibration tracks (pretty well in my experience), but the next step will be to explore BT.1886 which means more 'forcing in' of a gamma function using 11-pt because the P70 has no setting for BT.1886, but this is primarily for improved nightime viewing by which time you will also probably want to try activating ALZ, so that is all a next stage of complexity for after you have mastered this first stage (and probably after CMS as well).

Thanks for the good info. I'll change the gamma to straight power-law and zero out my 2 point settings and start a workup of the 11pt. settings. Question - after dialing in the 11pt. settings for grey color mix and gamma, do I then set my 2pt. settings? And would changing those effect my 11pt. calibrations as well? One more, when I get to working up a night time calibration are you suggesting to keep ALZ on during the cal? Thanks!

 

[Ian Wagner]

So I went back to the drawing board on 11pt and 2pt calibration with Zoyds and Farad's suggestions and I'm pretty satisfied with the results. Here's the charts, I had a difficult time dialing in the RGB at 10% and 20% and settled on a compromise. Now to start with color calibration! BTW, my wife is starting to think I'm crazy, lol...

 

[superkyle]

Looks like you have the greyscale pretty well dialed in. If I might add a suggestion though. Increase the points in the grey scale. Instead of going in steps of 10% like the tv settings ask go in steps of 5%. This will do a couple things. 1) allow you to fine tune the 5% gamma value and 2) allow you to see what is happening with the interpolated greyscale values. You will find that you need to give up a tad bit of accuracy on the even intervals of 10 to bring all points in line. It can be a bit tedious but once you are finished the results are great.

Edit: I also suggest that you learn how to let HCFR run the patches automatically as this will drastically speed things up. This is a huge advantage when trying to bring all of the colors in line.

 

[fafrd]

Looks like you have the greyscale pretty well dialed in. If I might add a suggestion though. Increase the points in the grey scale. Instead of going in steps of 10% like the tv settings ask go in steps of 5%. This will do a couple things. 1) allow you to fine tune the 5% gamma value and 2) allow you to see what is happening with the interpolated greyscale values. You will find that you need to give up a tad bit of accuracy on the even intervals of 10 to bring all points in line. It can be a bit tedious but once you are finished the results are great.

Edit: I also suggest that you learn how to let HCFR run the patches automatically as this will drastically speed things up. This is a huge advantage when trying to bring all of the colors in line.

Exactly what I was going to say

Great start but you should be using 5% patterns to check midpoints and dial-in 5% IRE.

5% is a bit tricky (very sensitive).

Best to calibrate at night both to avoid any ambient light reaching the sensor and to blunt the impression of developing craziness from the normal people in your life

 

[AVmanic]

Exactly what I was going to say

Great start but you should be using 5% patterns to check midpoints and dial-in 5% IRE.

5% is a bit tricky (very sensitive).

Best to calibrate at night both to avoid any ambient light reaching the sensor and to blunt the impression of developing craziness from the normal people in your life

So last night I calibrated my P70 with the info you had posted. I did find it was better not to touch Offset or Gain as you did. Because if I did it really made me have to drive high numbers to get my 11 point in. It works ether way but with leaving offset and gain along. I could achieve my 11 point without hitting the 23, 24 ect. It came very close to your 11 point.

Thanks for all the great input from all..

 

[fafrd]

So last night I calibrated my P70 with the info you had posted. I did find it was better not to touch Offset or Gain as you did. Because if I did it really made me have to drive high numbers to get my 11 point in. It works ether way but with leaving offset and gain along. I could achieve my 11 point without hitting the 23, 24 ect. It came very close to your 11 point.

Thanks for all the great input from all..

Yeah, that was my experience as well - the 11-pt setting provide enough range to calibrate greyscale and even force in another gamma function such as BT.1886 if you want, while both Gain and Offset are pretty heavy-handed and may also result in more non-linearities.

It goes against conventional wisdom to ignore 2-pt before moving to 11-pt, but I that works well for the P70.

Once you get to having HCFR generate the greyscale patterns for you, you can pretty efficiently calibrate the entire 11-pt range in parallel rather than one IRE % point at a time - go through % point by point making single-click changes at each % point and then sweep the entire 5% curve. Eventually as there are only a few last points you are trying to optimize, you can sweep the full 5% curve following each single click to find the best overall 11-pt setting for the full curve...

 

[fafrd]

Thanks for the good info. I'll change the gamma to straight power-law and zero out my 2 point settings and start a workup of the 11pt. settings. Question - after dialing in the 11pt. settings for grey color mix and gamma, do I then set my 2pt. settings? And would changing those effect my 11pt. calibrations as well? One more, when I get to working up a night time calibration are you suggesting to keep ALZ on during the cal? Thanks!

Sorry I missed this earlier - don't understand why 'View Next Unread' took me past this message.

On 2-pt versus 11-apt, I believe you've got it figured out: 2point provides more range to 11-pt in case 11-pt alone can not get you to where you want to be - never change 2-pt after completing 11-pt (yes, 2-pt would effect/screw-up 11-pt so you would need to re-do 11-pt).

Calibrating Calibrated Dark with ALZ on is pretty complicated. Based on my learning curve (which appears to be a pretty good proxy for the curve you are on), here is my suggestion as to the sequence to learn/master:

1/ greyscale/whitepoint with simple power-long gamma

2/ CMS (color)

3/ shadow-detail / gamma-function forcing through 11-pt (ie: try to force BT.1886)

4/ CMS optimization through use of color-checker (especially skin-tones)

5/ Greyscale and Gamma with ALZ on for Calibrated Dark (which is where shadow-detail optimization through gamma-function forcing and the use of BT.1886 becomes more critical).

 

[Ian Wagner]

Sorry I missed this earlier - don't understand why 'View Next Unread' took me past this message.

On 2-pt versus 11-apt, I believe you've got it figured out: 2point provides more range to 11-pt in case 11-pt alone can not get you to where you want to be - never change 2-pt after completing 11-pt (yes, 2-pt would effect/screw-up 11-pt so you would need to re-do 11-pt).

Calibrating Calibrated Dark with ALZ on is pretty complicated. Based on my learning curve (which appears to be a pretty good proxy for the curve you are on), here is my suggestion as to the sequence to learn/master:

1/ greyscale/whitepoint with simple power-long gamma

2/ CMS (color)

3/ shadow-detail / gamma-function forcing through 11-pt (ie: try to force BT.1886)

4/ CMS optimization through use of color-checker (especially skin-tones)

5/ Greyscale and Gamma with ALZ on for Calibrated Dark (which is where shadow-detail optimization through gamma-function forcing and the use of BT.1886 becomes more critical).

Thanks for getting back to me, I'll switch to a 5% scale and see if I can get those lower numbers dialed in farther and I like the 5 step sequence, makes sense. I laughed about the comment on calibrating at night too, lol!

 

[fafrd]

Thanks for getting back to me, I'll switch to a 5% scale and see if I can get those lower numbers dialed in farther and I like the 5 step sequence, makes sense. I laughed about the comment on calibrating at night too, lol!

Are you using GCD patterns?

At some point, learning to use the HCFR pattern generator is a very worthwhile investment (speeds everything up enormously).

It's still early days for you - this DIY calibration rabbit-hole goes very deep...

 

[Ian Wagner]

Looks like you have the greyscale pretty well dialed in. If I might add a suggestion though. Increase the points in the grey scale. Instead of going in steps of 10% like the tv settings ask go in steps of 5%. This will do a couple things. 1) allow you to fine tune the 5% gamma value and 2) allow you to see what is happening with the interpolated greyscale values. You will find that you need to give up a tad bit of accuracy on the even intervals of 10 to bring all points in line. It can be a bit tedious but once you are finished the results are great.

Edit: I also suggest that you learn how to let HCFR run the patches automatically as this will drastically speed things up. This is a huge advantage when trying to bring all of the colors in line.

Will do, and I'll look into HCFR running the patches on auto as well. I was reading through the ealier parts of this thread and saw some posts you had on the proper TV type option in HCFR and the color difference formula. Just curious what you ended up using and did you end up using a meter correction file? Thanks

 

[Ian Wagner]

Are you using GCD patterns?

At some point, learning to use the HCFR pattern generator is a very worthwhile investment (speeds everything up enormously).

It's still early days for you - this DIY calibration rabbit-hole goes very deep...

I am using the GCD disk, my computer doesn't have an HDMI out (VGA only) for the HCFR pattern generator so I think I'm out of luck on that for awhile. I had thought about buying an adapter that would convert the VGA analog signal to digital HDMI but was worried that colors could get off during the conversion process. Rabbit-hole indeed!

I did a quick run using the 5% gray scale and noticed that my dE values had changed on most of my 10% readings. I'm guessing that many variables could cause this, tv warm-up, ambient light, sensor placement, ect. Have you run into this issue and if so, any way to have some consistency?

 

[terryscott621]

On Saturday (3/7/15) I was finally able to get my P60 professionally calibrated.

Doug Weil with Clearly Resolved out of St. Louis was on one of his road trips and we had previously missed each other, but this time around we were able to schedule an appt. I'd like to start off by saying that Doug was really awesome to deal with. He showed up right on time and was really cool to talk with. Since I am a noob to calibration and this was my first ever professional calibration, he explained in detail (some of which was way over my head I must admit) what he was doing in each step of the calibration. He also explained to me about the equipment/software he was using and gave me a little info on his background and how he got into calibration (cool story BTW).

My experience with calibration up to this point had been using the Disney WOW disc and copying settings from this forum. I've been pretty happy with my P60 since I purchased it at Sam's Club for their pre-black friday deal and the only real issue/bug that I have been affected with was the sharpness bug. Other than that the TV has worked pretty flawlessly since I bought it. After copying multiple settings from the forum I wasn't really happy with any of them and I reset the TV to factory defaults and used the Disney WOW disc to just set the basic settings for my TV. That worked pretty well, but the skin tones looked off and I adjusted with my eye until I thought they were acceptable. That worked for awhile, but I knew the picture quality could be better. That's where Doug Weil came in. Since this was my first professional calibration I wasn't sure what to expect or even if it would be worth the cost. After Doug got done with my TV, all my reservations about having a professional calibration done were gone. My expectations were exceeded and then some. Simply said I was blown away at how good the picture looked after Doug was done. The skin tones look perfect now, the blacks look soooooo good, and the colors look realistic and spectacular!!!! I've been re-watching a bunch of Blu-rays all weekend because the picture looks incredible. If anybody wants Doug's contact info, just shoot me a PM and I'll provide it to you. I'd highly reccomend Doug Weil to anybody looking to get their TV calibrated.

Now I know this is what everyone wants to see. My settings after the calibration. I hadn't seen alot of settings posted for the P60 so hopefully this can help someone out. Good luck.
_________________________________________________________________________

TV: P602ui-B3
Firmware: 1.1.19

Settings:
Picture Mode: Cal Dark*
Auto Brightness: Off
Backlight: 40
Brightness: 51
Contrast: 45
Color: 50
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 0

More Picture Settings:
Color Temp: Normal*
Black Detail: Off
Active LED Zones: On (This was set to off during calibration)
Smooth Motion Effect: Off
Clear Action: Off
Reduce Signal Noise: Off
Reduce Block Noise: Off
Game Low Latency: Off
Film Mode: Auto
Gamma: 2.2

Color Tuner: (Hue / Saturation / Brightness / Offset / Gain)
Red: 0 / 0 / -21 / 1 / -2
Green: 25 / 0 / 8 / 0 / 0
Blue: 0 / 0 / 11 / -2 / -2
Cyan: -5 / 7 / 2
Magenta: 1 / 27 / -38
Yellow: 3 / -11 / 4

11 Point White Balance: (Red / Green / Blue)
5%: -16 / -14 / -16
10%: -32 / -28 / -29
20%: -14 / -16 / -15
30%: -15 / -14 / -12
40%: -17 / -8 / -10
50%: -9 / -11 / -4
60%: 3 / -3 / 2
70%: 4 / -1 / 2
80%: 4 / 3 / 4
90%: 2 / 1 / 6
100%: -1 / 0 / 10


Pre Calibration - Grayscale

Post Calibration - Grayscale

Pre Calibration - Color

Post Calibration - Color

 

[Raymond Green]

Hello. Dipped my toes into 4k water today and before turning the TV on, found this site and thread.

As this is my first HDTV (4k or otherwise), any tips for a real newby?

 

[fafrd]

I am using the GCD disk, my computer doesn't have an HDMI out (VGA only) for the HCFR pattern generator so I think I'm out of luck on that for awhile. I had thought about buying an adapter that would convert the VGA analog signal to digital HDMI but was worried that colors could get off during the conversion process. Rabbit-hole indeed!

I did a quick run using the 5% gray scale and noticed that my dE values had changed on most of my 10% readings. I'm guessing that many variables could cause this, tv warm-up, ambient light, sensor placement, ect. Have you run into this issue and if so, any way to have some consistency?

Yes, temperature can have a significant impact on readings. I believe temperature of the sensor is more critical than that of the TV, but ideally, both should be warmed up for at least an hour before reading. The sensor can just be hooked up to USB and the application HCFR started to get it warming up.

If youost questions in the HCFR thread, you will get answers on these general calibration from a slew of calibrators much more experienced than me (or most of the active members on this thread).

 

[Ian Wagner]

Hello. Dipped my toes into 4k water today and before turning the TV on, found this site and thread.

As this is my first HDTV (4k or otherwise), any tips for a real newby?

Hi Raymond,

I'm new here too, but found that starting on page one of this forum and reading the links on calibration was a good place to start.

 

[fafrd]

On Saturday (3/7/15) I was finally able to get my P60 professionally calibrated.

Doug Weil with Clearly Resolved out of St. Louis was on one of his road trips and we had previously missed each other, but this time around we were able to schedule an appt. I'd like to start off by saying that Doug was really awesome to deal with. He showed up right on time and was really cool to talk with. Since I am a noob to calibration and this was my first ever professional calibration, he explained in detail (some of which was way over my head I must admit) what he was doing in each step of the calibration. He also explained to me about the equipment/software he was using and gave me a little info on his background and how he got into calibration (cool story BTW).

My experience with calibration up to this point had been using the Disney WOW disc and copying settings from this forum. I've been pretty happy with my P60 since I purchased it at Sam's Club for their pre-black friday deal and the only real issue/bug that I have been affected with was the sharpness bug. Other than that the TV has worked pretty flawlessly since I bought it. After copying multiple settings from the forum I wasn't really happy with any of them and I reset the TV to factory defaults and used the Disney WOW disc to just set the basic settings for my TV. That worked pretty well, but the skin tones looked off and I adjusted with my eye until I thought they were acceptable. That worked for awhile, but I knew the picture quality could be better. That's where Doug Weil came in. Since this was my first professional calibration I wasn't sure what to expect or even if it would be worth the cost. After Doug got done with my TV, all my reservations about having a professional calibration done were gone. My expectations were exceeded and then some. Simply said I was blown away at how good the picture looked after Doug was done. The skin tones look perfect now, the blacks look soooooo good, and the colors look realistic and spectacular!!!! I've been re-watching a bunch of Blu-rays all weekend because the picture looks incredible. If anybody wants Doug's contact info, just shoot me a PM and I'll provide it to you. I'd highly reccomend Doug Weil to anybody looking to get their TV calibrated.

Now I know this is what everyone wants to see. My settings after the calibration. I hadn't seen alot of settings posted for the P60 so hopefully this can help someone out. Good luck.
_________________________________________________________________________

TV: P602ui-B3
Firmware: 1.1.19

Settings:
Picture Mode: Cal Dark*
Auto Brightness: Off
Backlight: 40
Brightness: 51
Contrast: 45
Color: 50
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 0

More Picture Settings:
Color Temp: Normal*
Black Detail: Off
Active LED Zones: On (This was set to off during calibration)
Smart Dimming: Off
Smooth Motion Effect: Off
Clear Action: Off
Reduce Signal Noise: Off
Reduce Block Noise: Off
Game Low Latency: Off
Film Mode: Auto
Gamma: 2.2

Color Tuner: (Hue / Saturation / Brightness / Offset / Gain)
Red: 0 / 0 / -21 / 1 / -2
Green: 25 / 0 / 8 / 0 / 0
Blue: 0 / 0 / 11 / -2 / -2
Cyan: -5 / 7 / 2
Magenta: 1 / 27 / -38
Yellow: 3 / -11 / 4

11 Point White Balance: (Red / Green / Blue)
5%: -16 / -14 / -16
10%: -32 / -28 / -29
20%: -14 / -16 / -15
30%: -15 / -14 / -12
40%: -17 / -8 / -10
50%: -9 / -11 / -4
60%: 3 / -3 / 2
70%: 4 / -1 / 2
80%: 4 / 3 / 4
90%: 2 / 1 / 6
100%: -1 / 0 / 10

Thanks for sharing these. Backlight 40 will be pretty bright - did the calibrator tell you what Luminance he calibrated for 100 IRE (Max)?

And also, did he indicate what gamma he calibrated to - Power Law Gamma 2.2, PLG 2.3, or some other more advanced gamma function such as BT. 1886?

 

[terryscott621]

Thanks for sharing these. Backlight 40 will be pretty bright - did the calibrator tell you what Luminance he calibrated for 100 IRE (Max)?



And also, did he indicate what gamma he calibrated to - Power Law Gamma 2.2, PLG 2.3, or some other more advanced gamma function such as BT. 1886?

If I remember correctly, I think he said he was shooting for a luminance of 32 foot lamberts (if that's the correct unit of measure). Also, he was aiming for a gamma of 2.2. Sorry, but I'm new to the calibration game so I hope I answered your questions intelligently.


Terry Scott
San Antonio, TX
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