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I really don't see how one cannot be satisfied with HDR on this projector.
I’ll summarize my long post previous.

HDR is unsatisfactory on this projector because SDR content looks better than HDR content on this projector (in my experience, testing, and nearly year of ownership) and that’s not the way it is supposed to be.
 

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I’ll summarize my long post previous.

HDR is unsatisfactory on this projector because SDR content looks better than HDR content on this projector (in my experience, testing, and nearly year of ownership) and that’s not the way it is supposed to be.
As I said I think expectations are set wrong or the setup is incorrect.

I confirm this PJ does HDR equal or better than my best of the best JVC X9500.
 

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@Bandyka I don't really have a dog in this fight. I have a Panasonic AE8000U 1080p projector. @Archaea was trying to convince me to upgrade to the 5040 but so far I have seen very little reason to make that change. Now the NX7 that a local friend has makes me want to. However, the price is much harder to justify without having the new HDMI spec included. If I am going to spend that kind of money I would rather wait a bit longer for HDMI 2.1. Realizing the price difference between the JVC NX7 and the Epson 5040 isn't much of a fair comparison. However, it seems they were brought up so here's my 2 cents on it.

As an SDR 1080p Blu-ray projector the Epson 5040 seems like a beast. It's bright with good colors and contrast and a sharp image. It has really nice features that older Epsons didn't like the lens memory. If available at the peak of Blu-rays this would have been a no brainer purchase for the value it offers.

As an HDR 2160p UHD projector the Epson 5040 doesn't even move the needle for me. When in HDR mode the detail in the darker end of the brightness spectrum becomes a mess. Most of the time everything is just too dark and washed out that you can hardly tell what is going on. Then there are times that something super bright will happen and you get blinded to the point of flinching. It's just not an enjoyable experience.

In comparison, the same clips on the JVC NX7 had amazing detail. Going back to the clip from Dark Phoenix @Archaea referred to. You could see everything clearly and with great detail. You could clearly tell what was going on. Watching the same clip back with the Epson turned it into a grey murky mess. The image lost all clarity and detail. Not just unrealistic expectations but being able to see what is actually happening in the film seems pretty important to me. We then watched the same clip again in SDR and it looked great on the Epson. All the low end is brought back up to a usable brightness and you can clearly see whats going on again. On the bright side of the image both JVC and Epson did well. It's just the darker stuff becomes unbearable on the Epson

This is just one example but everything across the board was better in HDR while on the JVC. Where I wouldn't even want to use HDR on the Epson. As someone that REALLY wants HDR on their projector, I can not justify the short comings of the 5040. I would rather wait with my very outdated SDR 1080 Panasonic than to "upgrade" to a 5040.
 

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I confirm this PJ does HDR equal or better than my best of the best JVC X9500.
I think you'd have trouble finding a reviewer who would agree the 2017, 5040UB that always received middling reviews for its HDR performance (and has ~15 community developed configs documented to help make HDR a passable experience - from harpervision to oledurt, etc) would match the quality of a top end JVC.

The JVC NX series projectors with their scene by scene dynamic HDR firmware does amazing things...if you haven’t seen or tried that yet, then I can perhaps better understand some of your out of date sentiment.

The 5040UB isn't a bad projector. It's quite a nice projector instead - like I've said - especially for SDR. It's still my go to recommendation for anyone who asks me what projector they should get on a budget. At refurb $1200 range?!? It's a great value!!! But as far as competing with the best of JVC. pshhhhhh.

The 2016 release era JVC RS600 (is that the same as the X950? X9500? you mention above?) I had in my room as a vendor supplied demo piece by @Mike Garrett during a 2017 home theater crawl smoked this 5040UB. (though at the time I was only comparing 1080P SDR sources and nothing HDR) At that time I owned a Panasonic AE8000U, but a close friend owned the 5040UB and I was pretty familiar with it and the image it threw. (enough to eventually buy one of my own when this refurb sale price popped up). My jaw dropped with the picture quality on that JVC RS600. I've never had the same overwhelmingly impressed experience with the 5040UB. But then again - the 5040UB throws an overall good picture, and is a fraction of the cost, and is still a solid choice for the cost these years later - even with its HDR limitations. (which as we've been discussing - one can just outright avoid.)
 

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Wow!!! A claim that is easily demonstrably untrue.

No reviewer would say the 2017, 5040UB that always received middling reviews for its HDR performance (and has 20 something community developed configs documented in a spreadsheet to make HDR a passable experience - from harpervision to oldgert, etc) would match the current best of JVC.

The JVC NX series projectors with their scene by scene dynamic HDR firmware does amazing things...if you haven’t seen or tried that yet, then I can perhaps better understand some of your out of date sentiment.

Maybe the 9500 isn't as good as the NX7... That could be the case.

Have you tried his settings on your Epson? If not, worth a shot.
 

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@Bandyka,
What settings are you using on your Epson 5040UB for HDR? If I haven't tried them already, I'll give them a shot. I've gone through nearly all from the spreadsheet of popular configs, and not found anything as good, IMO, as just turning HDR off, but if you have something different yet, I'll try yours.


These are some of the settings I've tried: (attached)
 

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I have Jriver and MadVR, calibrated specifically for my projector. Though I don't have 4K media ripped to my PC, I use it for short demo material with 1080P material.
It's the best tone mapper around, so you might want to test it with a movie.
 

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I hadn't been planning on watching any 4K content on this projector, but watched a bit of YouTube 4K and it looked so good that I started thinking about it more. It turns out that my receiver, although it supports 4K, does not support HDCP 2.2.


I don't want to upgrade my receiver so I was lamenting this until I realized that the wireless video of the 5040UBe that I bought would be able to support it. I am thinking of getting a Fire TV 4K and an HDMI splitter so that I can send the video to the projector and the audio to the receiver. My concerns are:


1. I don't trust wireless video to work consistently. The projector will by only about about 12 feet away from the transmitter with clear line of sight.

2. I tried HDMI splitters 10 years ago and none of the ones I tried were able to work and I suspected the HDMI handshake was failing. Are they better these days?

3. Since I'm splitting the Audio and Video and sending them to different places with presumably different delays, I worry that they will not be in sync.


Have any of you attempted something similar and did you have decent results?
 

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I hadn't been planning on watching any 4K content on this projector, but watched a bit of YouTube 4K and it looked so good that I started thinking about it more. It turns out that my receiver, although it supports 4K, does not support HDCP 2.2.


I don't want to upgrade my receiver so I was lamenting this until I realized that the wireless video of the 5040UBe that I bought would be able to support it. I am thinking of getting a Fire TV 4K and an HDMI splitter so that I can send the video to the projector and the audio to the receiver. My concerns are:


1. I don't trust wireless video to work consistently. The projector will by only about about 12 feet away from the transmitter with clear line of sight.

2. I tried HDMI splitters 10 years ago and none of the ones I tried were able to work and I suspected the HDMI handshake was failing. Are they better these days?

3. Since I'm splitting the Audio and Video and sending them to different places with presumably different delays, I worry that they will not be in sync.


Have any of you attempted something similar and did you have decent results?

I have the 5040UBE. And the first year it was on a rack that was around 6' tall and NEVER had issues. Got rid of the rack and built a new one that is horizontal under the screen and did have some issues since I had the transmitter on a DVD player, about 5" off the ground (my projector is ceiling mounted about 23' back) and just put some auralex foam pads on their sides to raise the transmitter another 5" and now I get a %80'ish signal strength and all is good. HOWEVER! when ever going from netflix to xbox games or a blu ray mode in the Xbox to Amazon Prime, etc, the screen does go black and the Epson and it's transmitter ALWAYS %100 of the time loose sync for around 20 seconds or so. And on occasion out of the blue while watching a full length film, it will go black for about 10 seconds or so. I've learned to live with it and doesn't bother me anymore, since getting a 45'-50' HDMI cable can be quite expensive, plus to run it across, up, over, then over again, etc. The UBE was well worth the extra $200 for me.
 

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You do not need HD Fury for the Panasonic 420 or 820 players. The Panasonic disk player is doing the same sort of functionality as the HD Fury.
But what about used with a box or some kind of device that has a streaming services that requires 60Hz?
 

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But what about used with a box or some kind of device that has a streaming services that requires 60Hz?

I use a $50 roku 4k stick that has an option for 4K 60hz (non HDR) for my streaming, don’t need it for my PC, and the panasonic for my disks. I don’t do much with game consoles currently.
 

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@Bandyka,
What settings are you using on your Epson 5040UB for HDR? If I haven't tried them already, I'll give them a shot. I've gone through nearly all from the spreadsheet of popular configs, and not found anything as good, IMO, as just turning HDR off, but if you have something different yet, I'll try yours.


These are some of the settings I've tried: (attached)
All these settings are years old.
Various firmware upgrades and use of the Panasonic Optimiser have created more and better options.
Why don't you try Adam's up to date ones in the Display Calibration webpage.
 

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All these settings are years old.
Various firmware upgrades and use of the Panasonic Optimiser have created more and better options.
Why don't you try Adam's up to date ones in the Display Calibration webpage.

I installed the newest 1.14 firmware immediately when it came out.

Thats the only firmware that came out in the last year. I bought the Panasonic player because it is the best option.

I will gladly try more display settings. I’m a tinkerer and thorough tester by nature.

Please point me to the settings you refer to with a link.

The settings I linked aren’t that old, when I bought this projector last April and couldn’t find a comfortable satisfaction with HDR, I asked lots of questions in this thread and those are some of the most popular settings to date. Those are the settings many people said they found satisfaction with. I received PMs from people giving me their personal settings to try. I’ve tried dozens of settings. I’ll try more - point me at them.
 

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All,

Yes the N7 of course is better than anything else including much more expensive projectors due to its dynamic tone mapping and yes I've tested it in fact I was one of the first in the world to do so. It was against the N9 and the latest Sony laser the 760 and the JVC X9900. Back then tone mapping wasn't available so HDR wasn't any better then the lesser models.
I had the chance to upgrade but I kept my X9500 as that was king of contrast and still is full stop.
Than I sold the X9500 for other reasons (which I regret) so I needed a PJ to get me by until I get my next proper one.

I tested the 9300 when it came out and I wasn't all that impressed back then but since they go real cheap these days I picked one up. After firmware updates it surprised me.

The one most important thing about it and all projectors is that you must have the bases covered well which means proper calibration. This was months ago but I do remember gamma/grayscale had to be dialed in and that helped greatly with dark shadow detail in HDR mode as yes some detail was lost however after dialing it in it was great, not JVC great but very good. I think I had to change gamma up or down one or two notches to fix low end detail but nothing else need to be done.
You just cannot expect this PJ to perform anywhere near the latest JVC models get that out of your head now, that comparison is silly. However as I said it compares to the older generation of JVC which is no small feat, yes shadow detail will obviously not be as good due to the much lower native contrast but it will be excellent compared to what the projects's native capabilities are and that is what you should be looking at.

In top end however it is brighter so specular highlights can be better looking. If its washed out your settings are incorrect.

I simply did not want to post here for a good reason and that is because I see so many trying all sorts of setting all over the place and most of these are so incorrect they will just destroy an accurate image in favor of brighter HDR better shadow detail etc. You simply cannot have those done accurately if you are trying to push the PJ beyond its native capabilities in the extreme ends of the scale. Its all about balance. That is what tone mapping is about as well.

My settings are simply Digital Cinema mode mid lamp, no special tweaks except I properly calibrated gamma/grayscale and using MadVr on very high settings. And this results in a very good looking and ACCURATE HDR image. Yes some movies are dark but they were mastered like that and only tone mapping can help them.

I hope this helps.
 

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I think you'd have trouble finding a reviewer who would agree the 2017, 5040UB that always received middling reviews for its HDR performance (and has ~15 community developed configs documented to help make HDR a passable experience - from harpervision to oledurt, etc) would match the quality of a top end JVC.

The JVC NX series projectors with their scene by scene dynamic HDR firmware does amazing things...if you haven’t seen or tried that yet, then I can perhaps better understand some of your out of date sentiment.

The 5040UB isn't a bad projector. It's quite a nice projector instead - like I've said - especially for SDR. It's still my go to recommendation for anyone who asks me what projector they should get on a budget. At refurb $1200 range?!? It's a great value!!! But as far as competing with the best of JVC. pshhhhhh.

The 2016 release era JVC RS600 (is that the same as the X950? X9500? you mention above?) I had in my room as a vendor supplied demo piece by @Mike Garrett during a 2017 home theater crawl smoked this 5040UB. (though at the time I was only comparing 1080P SDR sources and nothing HDR) At that time I owned a Panasonic AE8000U, but a close friend owned the 5040UB and I was pretty familiar with it and the image it threw. (enough to eventually buy one of my own when this refurb sale price popped up). My jaw dropped with the picture quality on that JVC RS600. I've never had the same overwhelmingly impressed experience with the 5040UB. But then again - the 5040UB throws an overall good picture, and is a fraction of the cost, and is still a solid choice for the cost these years later - even with its HDR limitations. (which as we've been discussing - one can just outright avoid.)
The RS 600 is an older gen and HDR sucked on those that is the X9000. Also since 2017 native HDR performance of the Epson has improved.
Your Jaw dropped mostly due to its contrast performance and yes that is why I regret selling mine. Nothing comes close to it and I suspect nothing ever will, all new PJ including JVC cannot touch those native contrast figures.
 

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@Bandyka I don't really have a dog in this fight. I have a Panasonic AE8000U 1080p projector. @Archaea was trying to convince me to upgrade to the 5040 but so far I have seen very little reason to make that change. Now the NX7 that a local friend has makes me want to. However, the price is much harder to justify without having the new HDMI spec included. If I am going to spend that kind of money I would rather wait a bit longer for HDMI 2.1. Realizing the price difference between the JVC NX7 and the Epson 5040 isn't much of a fair comparison. However, it seems they were brought up so here's my 2 cents on it.

As an SDR 1080p Blu-ray projector the Epson 5040 seems like a beast. It's bright with good colors and contrast and a sharp image. It has really nice features that older Epsons didn't like the lens memory. If available at the peak of Blu-rays this would have been a no brainer purchase for the value it offers.

As an HDR 2160p UHD projector the Epson 5040 doesn't even move the needle for me. When in HDR mode the detail in the darker end of the brightness spectrum becomes a mess. Most of the time everything is just too dark and washed out that you can hardly tell what is going on. Then there are times that something super bright will happen and you get blinded to the point of flinching. It's just not an enjoyable experience.

In comparison, the same clips on the JVC NX7 had amazing detail. Going back to the clip from Dark Phoenix @Archaea referred to. You could see everything clearly and with great detail. You could clearly tell what was going on. Watching the same clip back with the Epson turned it into a grey murky mess. The image lost all clarity and detail. Not just unrealistic expectations but being able to see what is actually happening in the film seems pretty important to me. We then watched the same clip again in SDR and it looked great on the Epson. All the low end is brought back up to a usable brightness and you can clearly see whats going on again. On the bright side of the image both JVC and Epson did well. It's just the darker stuff becomes unbearable on the Epson

This is just one example but everything across the board was better in HDR while on the JVC. Where I wouldn't even want to use HDR on the Epson. As someone that REALLY wants HDR on their projector, I can not justify the short comings of the 5040. I would rather wait with my very outdated SDR 1080 Panasonic than to "upgrade" to a 5040.
I haven't seen Dark Phoenix but I'll check it out now as I see it mentioned. Did you actually check the SDR version of the movie or you simply turned the PJ into SDR mode using the HDR version of the movie?
 

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I use a $50 roku 4k stick that has an option for 4K 60hz (non HDR) for my streaming, don’t need it for my PC, and the panasonic for my disks. I don’t do much with game consoles currently.
I meant can the HDfury linker be used in combination with one of these boxes that require 4K HDR 60Hz?
 

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I’ll summarize my long post previous.

HDR is unsatisfactory on this projector because SDR content looks better than HDR content on this projector (in my experience, testing, and nearly year of ownership) and that’s not the way it is supposed to be.

My take is almost the opposite. HDR looks very, very good indeed on my 9300W. The 'problem' is that well calibrated 1080p SDR also looks so good that the jump in image quality for 4K HDR isn't as big as I'd expected it to be.



I would still always prefer to watch 4K HDR because it does produce the superior image.
 

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My take is almost the opposite. HDR looks very, very good indeed on my 9300W. The 'problem' is that well calibrated 1080p SDR also looks so good that the jump in image quality for 4K HDR isn't as big as I'd expected it to be.



I would still always prefer to watch 4K HDR because it does produce the superior image.
That is my experience also and is how it should be.
As I said I am quite certain expectations are set too high and/or settings are messed up.
 
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