[rogo]

So I expect more from Logitech than the Popcorn Hour people. Same with Sony.


Fascinating stuff here about accessing GoogleTV's secret web stuff outside the box:

http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/11/02...ser-right-now/


and then some stuff on how fragmentation is already part of the platform, as it is on the phones... Not fatal on the phones, but annoying as heck.

http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/11/02...lu-ray-player/

 

[Jefftaz]

Hi,


I am in the process of deciding between the Revue and the Sony Bluray player. From my research, it seems that the Revue will only do wireless in the 2.4ghz range, while the Sony bluray player has been confirmed to support the 5ghz n band. This seems like a clear advantage for the Sony when streaming HD wirelessly is considered. For my setup, a wired connection is not possible. Does anyone know if Logitech can do a firmware update to support 5ghz in the future?


Also on a side note will people chime in on the keyboard (Revue)/keypad (Sony) for everyday use? I stopped in to my local Best Buy and did a quick test run. The Sony keypad seemed pretty nice, but not sure how it is for navigating/typing in everyday use.


Thanks,

Jeff

 

[Chuck_IV]

Jefftaz,

While I can't help you on the wireless, on there keyboard Sony vs Logitech, some of the issues are...


Sony...

1) RF Only, so you are pretty much stuck with using the Sony remote with the unit, period. The Logitech mini-keyboard does actually work well except it will not control your TV because of the way Sony's remote send the IR for the TV from the REMOTE itself and not the IR eyes.


2) It is not backlit. So if you are in a dimly lit area, be prepared to turn the lights on all the time to figure out where a button is. This is also because IMO the keys are poorly laid out and I think only the play button has any type of tacticle differential feel to it. So no easy way to tell what button you are on.


3) Since the remote was most likely designed for a TV with Google TV in it and not a blu-ray player, the remote sends out the TV IR commands via a little IR window ON THE REMOTE ITSELF and not the ir eyes. This makes it so the RF is useless for things like the volume, turning the TV on/off and TV inputs. You gotta aim it. This is also why the Logitech mini-keyboard will not control your TV... because it doesn't send out IR commands from the remote.


4) It's clicky loud. Press a button and everyone in the room will know you just did. So if you use it in the bedroom, your spouse may not like it if she's trying to sleep

Logitech Minuses

1. A big keyboard and not the handheld mini keyboard. If you want the small form factor of the Sony, you have to pony up another $130 for it, which now puts you at a HIGHER cost than the Sony and still no blu-ray player.


2. The keyboard with the Logitech is also not backlit, so once again, be prepared to turn the lights on, if you need a key.


3) The Logitech mini keypad($130 add on) has less dedicated keys than the Sony. On the Logitech you will be holding the FN key plus another key to do many of the functions that have dedicated keys on the Sony.



There two BIG pluses to the Logitech however. First, the Logitech Revue supports IR remotes via having the Harmony engine inside. So you can use a Harmony remote with it or even a third party remote IF you can get it to learn the logitech commands(I have a URC remote and and harmony so I can teach the URC remote the harmony commands). Second, the mini keyboard IS backlit.


If the Revue came with the mini keyboard instead of the large one, I would be seriously considering it. I want the small form factor and having to pony up another $130 for the mini keyboard on top of the $299 for the Revue, puts the total cost HIGHER that the Sony and I won't have a blu-ray player either.


I'm sure people have some other thoughts, but those are mine.

 

[sfin54]



Quote:
Originally Posted by shwiz /forum/post/19427530


If you have an AVR that can accept optical for sound and HDMI for video at the same time, you will get DD 5.1. I think most AVRs nowadays can do this (signal select). I'm doing this to avoid HDMI sound which is only 7.1 and makes the rear speakers useless.


After update, video is much better and I haven't noticed frame drops.

I have a Pioneer Elite SC-27, and it will not allow HDMI & optical into the same input at the same time. So no DD5.1 from the Revue, just PCM via HDMI.

The audio fix should have been in this update. Logitech/Google should make this a priority, now that the frame rate issue is apperently fixed.


sfin54

 

[gbeardmore]



Quote:
Originally Posted by sfin54 /forum/post/19429218


I have a Pioneer Elite SC-27, and it will not allow HDMI & optical into the same input at the same time. So no DD5.1 from the Revue, just PCM via HDMI.

The audio fix should have been in this update. Logitech/Google should make this a priority, now that the frame rate issue is apperently fixed.


sfin54

Instead of running your video thru your AV system, why not just go to the Pioneer with the Optical Cable, and directly to your TV with the HDMI cable. That's what I did and I'm getting DD5.1 just fine.

 

[dack70]

As far as updating or adding apps to the Revue (or the Sony devices), does anyone know who does this? (Logitech or Google or both) I realize the Android Market doesn't open until 2011, but it would be nice to know if we will be getting updated apps before then. Specifically the Logitech media player and the Netflix app. They both need some major improvements.


As many have stated already, it looks like the recent update is helping some of the people who had framerate problems. It had no impact on me. I have had no performance problems thus far. I'm still enjoying my Revue. It was fun to watch the Election coverage last night, while browsing various political blogs and websites. I'm still waiting on my mini controller. The large keyboard isn't terrible, but I look forward to the smaller device.

 

[Lupismaximus]

Jefftaz,


My suggestion is to stay clear of the Sony product. Although it does come with a BR player, it is very poorly integrated and acts as a total separate unit within the Sony GTV device. As Chuck mentions, the unit can only be controlled with the Sony remote period. This may change in the future, but not today. Although the remote is nice to type on, it takes way too many multiple- key clicks to get anything done. It is no programable nor have the capability to do Macros. Last, you can not not turn off your STB with the remote, so plan to have that running 24 hrs a day.


The real show stopper is the STB/DVR audio output stream, out of the Sony box, is only 2 Channel 48hz PCM. You can't watch regular TV in DD Surround Sound. You can run a separate audio cable from the STB direct to the AVR, but what is the point? You then have to switch you AVR's audio choice every time you want to watch TV. The only thing that you can listen DD or DTS Surround sound is when watching a BR. They say there will be a fix, but nothing has been officially announced by Sony. Only the Google PM suggested a fix sometime in the future. One FW upgrade came out, but it had minimal enhancements.


After playing with the revue, I like it a lot more. I plan to pick up both a BR player and revue closer to Black Friday, to take advantage of some of the sales. In a few weeks you may see the Sony unit drop to $359 dollars, but I would also assume the Revue would drop that equal or more amount.


Good Luck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefftaz /forum/post/0


Hi,


I am in the process of deciding between the Revue and the Sony Bluray player. From my research, it seems that the Revue will only do wireless in the 2.4ghz range, while the Sony bluray player has been confirmed to support the 5ghz n band. This seems like a clear advantage for the Sony when streaming HD wirelessly is considered. For my setup, a wired connection is not possible. Does anyone know if Logitech can do a firmware update to support 5ghz in the future?


Also on a side note will people chime in on the keyboard (Revue)/keypad (Sony) for everyday use? I stopped in to my local Best Buy and did a quick test run. The Sony keypad seemed pretty nice, but not sure how it is for navigating/typing in everyday use.


Thanks,

Jeff

 

[sfin54]



Quote:
Originally Posted by gbeardmore /forum/post/19429234


Instead of running your video thru your AV system, why not just go to the Pioneer with the Optical Cable, and directly to your TV with the HDMI cable. That's what I did and I'm getting DD5.1 just fine.

That defeats the purpose of having your AVR act a HDMI switcher. All of my HDMI sources run through my AVR, with only one HDMI output running to the monitor. Also, it would cause various remote automation issues in having to change inputs on the TV and AVR.

Besides, the HDMI spec obviously includes DD 5.1 and DTS. Logitech/Google just needs to correct the audio issues via HDMI.


sfin54

 

[Lupismaximus]

Larry,


Do you have a definitive answer to this?



I would say, for the GTV specific apps (Netflix, Cnbc, NBA, Youtube), it is Google. For the Logitech specific apps (Media Player, Video Conf.,and voice commands), it is Logitech. The same for Sony.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dack70 /forum/post/0


As far as updating or adding apps to the Revue (or the Sony devices), does anyone know who does this? (Logitech or Google or both) I realize the Android Market doesn't open until 2011, but it would be nice to know if we will be getting updated apps before then. Specifically the Logitech media player and the Netflix app. They both need some major improvements.


As many have stated already, it looks like the recent update is helping some of the people who had framerate problems. It had no impact on me. I have had no performance problems thus far. I'm still enjoying my Revue. It was fun to watch the Election coverage last night, while browsing various political blogs and websites. I'm still waiting on my mini controller. The large keyboard isn't terrible, but I look forward to the smaller device.

 

[big-d]

i got my Sony unit for 359 so its hard to not want to keep it over the revue.


By the time i bought the revue, mini keyboard and bluray player it would be over $500. Of course i would have a better bluray player than what comes built into the GT1.


but if logitech is quicker to resolve issues quicker the revue is strarting to look more tempting.

 

[gbeardmore]



Quote:
Originally Posted by sfin54 /forum/post/19429804


That defeats the purpose of having your AVR act a HDMI switcher. All of my HDMI sources run through my AVR, with only one HDMI output running to the monitor. Also, it would cause various remote automation issues in having to change inputs on the TV and AVR.

Besides, the HDMI spec obviously includes DD 5.1 and DTS. Logitech/Google just needs to correct the audio issues via HDMI.


sfin54

Very true, Logitech should fix the issue, and probably will with a pushed update. This is just a temporary fix. I have a Logitech Harmony remote that handles the TV input issue automatically for me. I have one Activity set up for watching broadcast TV with the monitor set to HDMI 1, and a Watch BluRay activity set for HDMI 2.


Of course, if the monitor only has one HDMI Input, that's a problem. But in the mean time, this works for me.

 

[jm9843]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupismaximus /forum/post/19429718


Although it does come with a BR player, it is very poorly integrated and acts as a total separate unit within the Sony GTV device.

I'm not sure what you meant by this comment. The Blu-ray playback is handled by a Google TV app. Not only can it be set to auto-playback when a disc is inserted, but you could map it to a shortcut on the remote like any other app.


Maybe you were talking about the Disc player app not supporting multi-tasking in the sense that pressing Home or task switching to another app stops Blu-ray playback? I don't think it's a big deal. The appeal, at least in my mind, of the NSZ-GT1 is consolidation. i.e. having TV/Web/Blu-ray all on one device/input.

 

[dack70]

I noticed with the Revue, that it always stays powered on. No power button. Is that ok? I also have a SlingBox and it stays powered on all the time as well. I leave my desktop PC on all the time and have never had a problem. Not sure I feel comfortable leaving the Revue and SlingBox powered on all the time though. Any opinions?

 

[Chuck_IV]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupismaximus /forum/post/19429718


Jefftaz,


My suggestion is to stay clear of the Sony product. Although it does come with a BR player, it is very poorly integrated and acts as a total separate unit within the Sony GTV device.

I'm not sure why you consider it poorly integrated either. As jm9843 said, the player acts like an app within Google TV and you can set it to autoplay if you like. Otherwise you put in a disk and access it via the app style link just like everything else within Google TV. That seems well integrated to me.


As for not being able to go back to the main menu without the disk stopping and what not, that is more of a current issue/limitation of Google TV than it is with the blu-ray player. MANY of the apps restrict dual view from running while in that app. When you are watching a Netflix movie and go back to the Home menu, guess what? Netflix stops playing too, same as the blu-ray.


There are 2 main issues with the Sony unit. One, that you currently cannot get DD5.1 from the INPUT source of the Sony unit(while the Revue unit does do 5.1, it is PCM and not DD). A fix for this is supposedly in the works. You DO get full High Def audio from the Blu-Ray disks however. The other issue is the remote being RF only. This IS an issue for me, but not enough to give up the Blu-Ray player part.


The issue for me would be cost. It would cost me $299 for the Revue, $130 for the mini-keyboard(I don't like having to deal with a semi-full size keyboard) AND I would still need a blu-ray player, so tack on another say $125-$150. That totals to $554-$579, $155-$180 more than the total for the Sony.


I'm hoping a 3rd party company will step up and create some type of IR to RF converter for the Sony like Nyko did for the PS3/Bluetooth issue back in the day. That would pretty much solve the remote issue.

 

[Lupismaximus]

I see you guys are fixating on my statement around the BR player, but this is my opinion, and only a very small piece of what swayed my decision to mostly likely return my Sony unit towards to end of my 30 day return policy.


YES, it is nice to have a consolidated BR player that only costs you $100 dollars. YES, it provides majority of the the features of the other standard BR players on the market, and it can be set up as an option in the GTV menu.


I personally feel the start up time is slow, the up conversion of SD discs is too soft, no HDMI 1.4 (HDMI Ethernet Channel, Full Spectrum 3D, 4k × 2k Resolution Support), No PNP support when you are trying to view multiple things (Who cares whose fault it is), and the multiple key clicks it takes you to go to the menu or to switch to the DVD player. These are only Some of the more recent things I look for (Not including PnP) in a solid BR player, and since this unit doesn't support these features, it leads me to my comment. For you folks you might love the implementation, that is great and I wish I was in your boat!


At the end of the day, the same issues you have both complained about on the parallel Sony Forum are the same reasons I will eventually return my unit. Fix the Remote and Audio thing, then I am in.


Finally, If this was just for myself, I probably would'nt care as much and hope that things got fixed in the future. Since my wife uses this unit equal time as I do, she ultimately doesn't have the patience to use the remote compared to the ease of use that came with our Harmony One remote. For this reason, I say get a separate BR player and the Revue, if the pricing makes sense during a sale. If I could return my unit after the year end, then I would hold out to see what fixes come along to make this unit more sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck_IV /forum/post/19430275


I'm not sure why you consider it poorly integrated either. As jm9843 said, the player acts like an app within Google TV and you can set it to autoplay if you like. Otherwise you put in a disk and access it via the app style link just like everything else within Google TV. That seems well integrated to me.


As for not being able to go back to the main menu without the disk stopping and what not, that is more of a current issue/limitation of Google TV than it is with the blu-ray player. MANY of the apps restrict dual view from running while in that app. When you are watching a Netflix movie and go back to the Home menu, guess what? Netflix stops playing too, same as the blu-ray.


There are 2 main issues with the Sony unit. One, that you currently cannot get DD5.1 from the INPUT source of the Sony unit(while the Revue unit does do 5.1, it is PCM and not DD). A fix for this is supposedly in the works. You DO get full High Def audio from the Blu-Ray disks however. The other issue is the remote being RF only. This IS an issue for me, but not enough to give up the Blu-Ray player part.


The issue for me would be cost. It would cost me $299 for the Revue, $130 for the mini-keyboard(I don't like having to deal with a semi-full size keyboard) AND I would still need a blu-ray player, so tack on another say $125-$150. That totals to $554-$579, $155-$180 more than the total for the Sony.


I'm hoping a 3rd party company will step up and create some type of IR to RF converter for the Sony like Nyko did for the PS3/Bluetooth issue back in the day. That would pretty much solve the remote issue.

 

[Lupismaximus]

For those gamers out there, this is interesting

http://www.ehomeupgrade.com/2010/11/...our-google-tv/

 

[rogo]

And still more from the TechCrunch guys...

http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/11/03...asons-not-too/


Note, the writer here is an apologist. One reason you should buy it is because "things can only get better". Um, ok. Another is that "Google is trying." Also, you should buy it is because it forces a keyboard into the living room. Anyway, he gives reasons you should buy it and reasons you shouldn't.


Worth a read for people actually considering one at this point.

 

[Gary J]

How about this one? - If it does what you want in its current state well, buy it.

 

[rogo]

@Gary, I think the point is a lot of people don't really know what it does and doesn't. Hence articles like the linked one that not only list pros and cons but help you understand how much they might mean to you.

 

[Jefftaz]

Chuck_IV and Lupismaximus,


Thank you both for your comments and feedback. I am getting the sense that the Revue may be the best route. This is going to be a bedroom unit and am also wondering how a full sized keyboard will be function wise using while laying in bed. hmmm... may have to pony up the additional $150 for the Logitech mini keyboard!


Jeff