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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakmal /forum/post/19442424


Any Flash site using H264 will be OK for GTV with CE4100. Any Flash site using VP6 (there are many legacy videos on many sites) or Sorensen Spark (not that common any more) is not going to be a good experience on GTV. Sites can make themselves GTV friendly, but just those sites are not going to bring the 'full web experience' that Google has been promoting.

Can you post a few links for the sites you don't think will work well with GTV (based on your statement above). I'll try them out and let you know how it goes. This is not meant to be a snide remark either. I really do want to see which sites give GTV trouble. I simply don't know much about this codec stuff.
 

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I don't know much of anything about Boxee, but from the posts here, it sounds like the strength of it will be it's media streaming capabilities. Is this true? If this is true and it has the same chip in it, is there any reason the Revue won't also be able to perform media streaming just as well or even better, once the app store opens and developers start creating media streaming apps?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dack70 /forum/post/19442563


Can you post a few links for the sites you don't think will work well with GTV (based on your statement above). I'll try them out and let you know how it goes. This is not meant to be a snide remark either. I really do want to see which sites give GTV trouble. I simply don't know much about this codec stuff.

Try this site: http://www.rajshritamil.com/ ; Last time I checked, the videos on that site were in VP6 codec. Particularly, try the older videos and not the ones updated recently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dack70 /forum/post/19442580


I don't know much of anything about Boxee, but from the posts here, it sounds like the strength of it will be it's media streaming capabilities. Is this true? If this is true and it has the same chip in it, is there any reason the Revue won't also be able to perform media streaming just as well or even better, once the app store opens and developers start creating media streaming apps?

You have to draw similarities between what is open sourced in a media streamer like WDTV and apps that are created based on that with what can happen once Android of GTV is made publicly available.


For example, can b-rad implement DTS-HD bitstreaming? (an unsupported feature of WDTV, but one that is supported by the chipset in the media streamer). Media streaming functions take time to develop / test, have licensing costs etc. which are difficult for an app developer to implement.


Only Google / Logitech can probably license the necessary stuff from Intel. If GTV has to gain media streaming capabilities, it has to come from them. But, before that, tell them to get NTFS support on GTV first
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakmal /forum/post/19442718


Try this site: http://www.rajshritamil.com/ ; Last time I checked, the videos on that site were in VP6 codec. Particularly, try the older videos and not the ones updated recently.

What kind of crazy site are you sending me to?


I'll try it out later tonight and let you know how it goes.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by madpoet /forum/post/19441405


You complained about having to create a Boxee account when you had to do the same for this.

You don't have a choice on the Boxee. And I believe I understand Googles motivations and what they will and will not do. I have no idea what the mysterious financial backers behind Boxee are after.

Though I expect someone to start sniffing data as soon as they start selling in later this month (or next year, or next decade whenever they get it ready


Quote:
Originally Posted by jakmal /forum/post/19441571


For the average consumer, 'hardware acceleration for Flash' may lead to the misconception that games can also be accelerated. But, we, here at AVSForums, know that the acceleration is only for H264 video. This is a puiblic perception which needs to be fixed.

Actually i suspect a lot will have no concept of "acceleration" at all - they just expect it all to work.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jakmal /forum/post/19441571


As for Boxee proclaiming / not proclaiming Internet capabilitiies, my intent was to suggest that they are downplaying the web browsing part and promoting their core strength / strength of the CE4100 more.

Yes, I think I got that - but since I just saw that quote on their webpage I'm not sure that is quite right. Seems like a fairly direct and bold quote.

As opposed to Googles more vague "full web experience" - which, come on, we all know really means: "We are not going to block Flash like that evil Steve jobs"




Quote:
Originally Posted by jakmal /forum/post/19441571


With reference to Internet capability : Just ask yourself the question : For non-H264 web content, would you be happy with a 1.2 GHz single core Atom nettop for browsing the web? If so, you will definitely be satisfied with the GTV devices. But, it looks like many consumers want something more because of the way the GTV was positioned in the market (hype and 'web experience to TV' and so on).

I don't really know. I haven't done any extensive speed testing. But then I don't except to do any great amount of web browsing in the TV - but rather find several web video sources, and book mark them for later. And mostly for contemporary material (like say CNets streaming), where presumably they are not using old video.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jakmal /forum/post/19441571


I believe the device needs to be connected only for the initial setup, and after that, it can operate without connecting to the Internet and be only on the local network. This is what makes the device interesting.

Yet, I would like to be able to get on the net as well - or i could stick with the little old rickety WDTV Live.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jakmal /forum/post/19441571


For GTV, the local capabilities are rudimentary (because Google didn't take the efforts to work on something which wouldn't get the user on to the web.).

Yeah, and that is why Android is important to me - since it is an OS which can function offline. Had it been a device with Chrome OS I wouldn't have been interested(since Chrome OS isn't really an OS but a basically a browser with training wheels)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jakmal /forum/post/19441571


As for the software reporting what you watch, I agree it doesn't look good. Actually, I am not a big fan of the 'social aspect' that Boxee promotes, but more interested in just the UI and actual media capabilities / sprinkling of access to online content. That said, Google is also no saint in this matter. I am sure your GTV browsing will be safely recorded into your account activity
(I am actually a big fan of many Google products, and personally don't mind them 'prying' in once in a while with respect to results for my search queries etc., but that is going a bit off-topic)

I'm with you on this - I wonder if this 'social aspect' isn't just an excuse for snooping. I don't think its the job of a playback device to poke its nose in to that. Of course on GTV people should be able to make Android chat programs, so people could chat with friends whilst they were watching something streaming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jakmal /forum/post/19441571


This will not be the full Google TV experience, because many of the features are tied to the CE4100 platform. I had said this before in one of my initial posts in this thread.. the open sourcing will be similar to the open sourcing of the Linux code for a streamer like the WDTV. Yes, it is there, and the developers can take it and tweak it, but only to a certain extent (similar to what is being done by b-rad for WDTV)

Well with the WDTV that is of course extremely limited - seems the extend of Western Digitals support is that they refrain from suing him.


But I would imagine with the Google TV source that whilst the library will call a play routine, one could write an emulation layer for that.

But perhaps not. If its on the level of the WDTV that would be a downer for enterprising modders. Though if you look at what the potential hackers at say XDA are talking about, they want to mod the Google TV hardware, not run it on PCs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jakmal /forum/post/19441571


Not necessarily
They can have a 'Live CD' or 'USB stick' boot and run GTV as a separate OS. GTV is already Android compiled for x86 platform, so it should run OK on any HTPC.


Really? Is that for development?


Quote:
Originally Posted by dack70 /forum/post/19442580


I don't know much of anything about Boxee, but from the posts here, it sounds like the strength of it will be it's media streaming capabilities. Is this true? If this is true and it has the same chip in it, is there any reason the Revue won't also be able to perform media streaming just as well or even better, once the app store opens and developers start creating media streaming apps?

I guess it would depend on whether or not Google allows developers access to the full range of the chips ability - if they do that then yes you would think they could batch the Boxees ability.

Indeed as someone quoted upstream, the ceo of Boxee said they might be doing a client for the Google TV.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dack70 /forum/post/19442836


What kind of crazy site are you sending me to?


I'll try it out later tonight and let you know how it goes.

Ok, I just tried a few videos from that crazy site you just sent me to. I even picked one from 1992. They all played perfectly on my Revue. I even tried them on my desktop to compare and there was no difference.


Like I said, I don't know much about codecs and such, but I do know that I have yet to come across a Web video that I cannot play using the Revue. I'm telling you it's a really nice experience playing this stuff on my TV. (42in plasma 720p)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dack70 /forum/post/19442994


Ok, I just tried a few videos from that crazy site you just sent me to. I even picked one from 1992. They all played perfectly on my Revue. I even tried them on my desktop to compare and there was no difference.


Like I said, I don't know much about codecs and such, but I do know that I have yet to come across a Web video that I cannot play using the Revue. I'm telling you it's a really nice experience playing this stuff on my TV. (42in plasma 720p)

Yea, I know the 1992 video you are referring to. It is the year the movie was released, not when the video was uploaded



Let me try to handpick the video which I am sure is VP6 and send you the link after I get back home from work.


Edit: Maybe you can also try searching for VP6 on YouTube.. Maybe they have some videos not re-encoded to H264. Basically VP6 on any video sharing site...?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakmal /forum/post/19443020


Yea, I know the 1992 video you are referring to. It is the year the movie was released, not when the video was uploaded



Let me try to handpick the video which I am sure is VP6 and send you the link after I get back home from work.


Edit: Maybe you can also try searching for VP6 on YouTube.. Maybe they have some videos not re-encoded to H264. Basically VP6 on any video sharing site...?

Ok, I found a test video. Here is the link: (it played fine as well)

http://www.timsah.com/test-vp6-video/qTrTMKrQFzu


So, go ahead and order your Revue now.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dack70 /forum/post/19443064


Ok, I found a test video. Here is the link: (it played fine as well)

http://www.timsah.com/test-vp6-video/qTrTMKrQFzu


So, go ahead and order your Revue now.

Glad to hear software-only decode works well in this case
Not entirely convinced about how this would scale with increase in resolution (thankfully, non-H264 HD videos are almost non-existent).


Btw, can you try WebM also? (VP8):

http://www.webmvideoplayer.com/video...Z2dP6AQ%5D.cfm


CE4100 was developed before VP8 was made open source. So, this will be an interesting test case as well. Make sure the 1080p version is playing and not one of the other smaller resolutions.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakmal /forum/post/19443138


Glad to hear software-only decode works well in this case
Not entirely convinced about how this would scale with increase in resolution (thankfully, non-H264 HD videos are almost non-existent).


Btw, can you try WebM also? (VP8):

http://www.webmvideoplayer.com/video...Z2dP6AQ%5D.cfm


CE4100 was developed before VP8 was made open source. So, this will be an interesting test case as well. Make sure the 1080p version is playing and not one of the other smaller resolutions.

Wow! That played perfectly and looked amazing! I played it in 1080p.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dack70 /forum/post/19443212


Wow! That played perfectly and looked amazing! I played it in 1080p.

This is really the first piece of info about Google TV / CE 4100 that has had a positive effect on me
So, we are OK as far as videos are concerned.


The only thing left is the 'rest of the web experience' thing.


Btw, have you visited websites which have Java applets in them? How is the navigation? Example site: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/coffeebre...crossWord.html
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakmal /forum/post/19443226


This is really the first piece of info about Google TV / CE 4100 that has had a positive effect on me
So, we are OK as far as videos are concerned.


The only thing left is the 'rest of the web experience' thing.


Btw, have you visited websites which have Java applets in them? How is the navigation? Example site: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/coffeebre...crossWord.html

Sudoku worked perfectly, Jigsaw said missing plugin, and Crossword was just blank.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dack70 /forum/post/19443264


Sudoku worked perfectly, Jigsaw said missing plugin, and Crossword was just blank.

Well, at least people can play Sudoku (I see it is in Flash, and not too much movement in the game, so no hiccups -- good!)


Unfortunate that there are no Java plugins for other recreational activities in the web experience
(I think the Crossword is Java and Jigsaw is Shockwave). So, no options were provided to download the plugin?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakmal /forum/post/19443297


Well, at least people can play Sudoku (I see it is in Flash, and not too much movement in the game, so no hiccups -- good!)


Unfortunate that there are no Java plugins for other recreational activities in the web experience
(I think the Crossword is Java and Jigsaw is Shockwave). So, no options were provided to download the plugin?

I didn't see any options to download a plugin. I wonder if Chrome on my desktop works ok with those games. I'll check it out tomorrow maybe. It's fun and interesting to try out all this stuff, but in the end, I don't plan on playing games on GTV. Maybe I'll post a question about these plugins on the Logitech forum.
 

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New user here with a quick question. Was I expecting too much for the Revue to play the hundreds of home movies I have in MPG format? Over the years, I have used various other media players with these files with no problem (Dlink, PS3, etc).


Is MPG a format they have not added yet or a legacy format whose time has past and those files are outside of GTV's domain? If so is there a suggestions for easily converting my MPGs to another format?


What format should future home movies be produced in?


I happened to also note that Windows Media Center recorded TV files (WTV) are not supported either?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonV /forum/post/0


New user here with a quick question. Was I expecting too much for the Revue to play the hundreds of home movies I have in MPG format? Over the years, I have used various other media players with these files with no problem (Dlink, PS3, etc).


Is MPG a format they have not added yet or a legacy format whose time has past and those files are outside of GTV's domain? If so is there a suggestions for easily converting my MPGs to another format?


What format should future home movies be produced in?


I happened to also note that Windows Media Center recorded TV files (WTV) are not supported either?

The Logitech media player app that comes preinstalled on the Revue is still in beta and it does not work very well. They claim they will be able to play many of the popular media formats though. I suspect there will be software updates to this app that will eventually allow you to play your media files. And certainly in early 2011, when they open up the Android Market for GTV, developers will start creating other media player apps. I know that the very popular VLC Media player is in the works right now for the Android OS, and that media player plays every media format known to man. So I personally would not waste your time converting all of your media right now. I am in the same boat as you. I have a ton of media and only some of it plays on my Revue, but I'm just waiting for some software updates that I'm pretty sure will be coming soon.
 

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Wow, this forum has gotten interesting and at times childish.


Anyways, I have the Sony Bluray Goggle TV, Windows Mobile 7 HTPC, and Boxee. I also have a PS3 and Xbox360, but view these devices as more gaming platforms than media hubs, although both are adding this capability fast, with PS3 in the lead. Before I get into my post, I would like to say that for the past three weeks I have had my Sony BR variant of Google TV. I have learned to really enjoy the platform and what it has to offer. It is nothing new or revolutionary, but different in how they went about it, and this is what I have learned to become fond of. I experienced the same thing when jumped over to Android OS from other phone platforms, and wouldn't trade my Droid X for any other phone OS. In regards to GTV, if I overlook all the hardware or integration challenges surrounding the Sony or Logitech box, then I can say that GTV is a great solution, and in many ways better than all it's predecessors that have already come to market. There are a ton of competitors out there and a lot of solutions do specific things significantly better, but holistically not. I still think GTV is a little premature and needs to work outs it's kinks on all of us early adopters. There is a clear indication that google has a lot of learning to do in this space and it is not just as easy as slapping an OS on a box and calling it the day. Some things they overlooked, like working with the content providers to ensure that they wouldn't be blocked to view their content. Other things they nailed, like their search function and integration of existing STB boxes into their solution. Overall, the GTV will have it's growing and maturing period for 6-9 months, and eventually will be one of the best and most sought after media streaming devices in the market. Until then, us early adopters will ***** and moan about the things it does or doesn't do, and the average consumer will buy this thinking it is the most ingenious device, since they don't know any better.


I am not sure who said that GTV, WM7, Boxee, Apple TV, and Roku aren't competing products, but I would have to disagree. They are all designed to serve the same function, but go about it in different ways and bring different advantages. For example, the WM7 solution is the most flexible when it comes to things you can do on it, how much you can customize it, and what platform you can buy it on. The problem with WM7, or any other HTPC front end, is that the ability to view online content seamlessly is lacking. Sure you can access Netflix and YouTube and some other basic online media, but to truly access them all, it does not do this well. The features it does well are the following: The ability to stream any type of DNLA content is the best supported, ability to integrate with your cable or satellite provider Is easily done, the ability to integrate Bluray playback or content is easily done, and the ability to control this all via one controller is easily done. All this is somewhat easy, but does come with a significant price tag when compared to other solutions out there.


This is where Boxee comes in and slightly bridges the gap. I have played with this media streaming SW and seen it grow for 2+ years to its current state. It is much nicer now, then when it first released in Alpha form, which truly was a knock off of the XBMC platform it is built on. Currently this platform provides the best access to online content and provides to best selection of online content. It does by providing both redirects and specific apps for this content. It's does this similar to google in the nature that it uses a web page to view most content. Their secret sauce is their ability to trick the major content providers into thinking they you are viewing this on a computer web browser and not a browser on a media streamer. They have had their challenges through time, but lately have seemed to figure this out and avoid the problems that GTV is having with Hulu, NBC, ABC, and CBS.


If you don't like the Dlink hardware that Boxee comes on, then quit bitching and buy a small form factor next gen Atom or i3 Linux box, and load the software version of Boxee on it. Sure it will be slightly more expensive, but then there will be no hardware limits like described before. The integrated box that it comes on is powerful enough to do all the online content viewing and flawlessly stream any DNLA content you have. I am sure someone will say that they can't stream some random codec that is at 1080P, because the power of the Dlink platform. What I say to that is too bad for you, have a seat, and have a beverage. There are a lot of factors that contribute to folks failures of streaming content, but codec support is not one of those with boxee or WM7.


Next this leads us to the Roku and Apple TV. I don't have either either of these devices although have played with Roku some bit, and I am familiar with Apple products, as I type this out on my iPAD. For solid online content and DNLA steaming these solutions are really good. The Roku has the advantage that it has a strong partnership with many various content providers, it can stream a lot of this content for free, it can do 1080P, and has a large range of codec support compared to others. AppleTV provides the best UI and access to countless movies, tv shows, and ability to stream your DNLA content, but does cost money for majority of the content. The advantage is that you can get this solution for a $100 price tag, and it is hard to beat these devices for these specific functions. They don't allow you to surf the web to access the content providers websites, but rather provide you the ability to view this content by downloading it from iTunes App store, Amazon On-demand store, or through the specific built in apps. Roku allows you to get some of the similar content through hulu app, blockbuster, and other streaming apps.


Finally comes in GoogleTV. I am not going to rehash the features you already know but rather state that GTV is trying to meld all the features of the previous described solutions into one. It tries to do it in a seamless, easy to use, and economical way. As you could imagine, this is not an easy feat and there are a lot of factors to consider. Some of these are obvious and they have definitely provided a good solution, but others not so obvious, which has led them to get blocked from some sites. They have a good start with features focused around their core competency of search, and also have provided great STB integration, but definitely need to grow their apps or access to better online content. Once they do that, and fix the other issues (Audio, remote, etc...), then they will have a platform that will definitely dominate the market. They are close, but need a little more time in the oven to make this edible for the vast majority.
 

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@Lupismaximus


Excellent write up!
 

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For the Boxee fans out there, if it's true that they are working on a Boxee app for Google TV, would that make you consider taking another look at GTV? Would there be any limitations to this app, or would it give you all the same functionality as the Boxee Box?
 

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Ganesh,


I understand your paper benchmarking efforts here but what is the real problem. I tested the GTV on a lot of video and chrome/flash preformed very well. I didn't explicitly try to the test various codecs that might be in flash video but I failed to find a site that had video playback issues. I'm sure there could be some but the browser experience in gtv was its best attribute. Saying that it wont meet the needs of the "average user" without even trying one seems harsh and unnecessary. I think it will meet a lot of peoples needs. I would be interested in hearing from actual users about what content they are having problems with.


back to your regularly scheduled soap opera.


Sean
 
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