AVS Forum banner

4501 - 4520 of 4554 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,361 Posts
It was explained to me that the EQ would allow a JBL calibrator to come and do all the manual fine tuning to get things just right... and I'd then have a "Synthesis Certified" theater. Does that make any real difference, or is it just a bunch of hooey?

I'm not much of a tinkerer myself, and would prefer to just get things done once and then be done with it. I'm definitely in way over my head on all this stuff!

If you want the Synthesis certified, then you’ll need the EQ abs JBL amps and subs. I have a good friend whose home theater is Synthesis certified. I really like his system (and really the 4367’s for lcr), but overall I like mine a little more (SCL-2/SCL-4/C763L). I use Dirac and have acoustic treatments, an Arcam AV40, and have a lot more, and more capable, subs. I spent less, we both enjoy equally, I spent more time tweaking and optimizing.

In regards to in-wall subs, I haven’t heard many. The one I have heard have been bettered by less costly but physically larger floor space subs.

If you don’t want to tweak, just write a check and really enjoy, the Synthesis certified all JBL/Arcam/Mark Levinson/Revel system is the way to go. They sound great. It’s just quite a bit more money. My friend and his wife are both surgeons, time was more valuable than money. It made perfect sense for them.

I like to experiment with placement, enjoy tweaking, and change out equipment more. Sysnthesis certification didn’t add up for me.

Like I said, we are both happy with the route we went and the end results.

Concerning subs: they are finicky on where they will perform best. Especially for seat-to-seat performance. I have 6 subs, so be in each corner, and because my floor is carpet and pad over concrete, two right behind the seating. In-walls really wouldn’t have worked as I didn’t have a 100% idea of where everything in the room would be (and I like even yet impactful bass). If you go with in-wall subs I’d start the room plan well before buying anything and consult with JBL about the best placement. Be honest with how you will want the room, how it will be used, what compromises you’re ok with and what you’re not. In-walls are more of a commitment as it is much harder to install and/or move, patch, rerun wires.

You may want to look at a variety of options besides inwalls. These could be other, floor sitting, JBL or Revel subs. The Revels come with a variety of finish options that may make them easier to live with. Other brands I like are Deep Sea Sounds (I have 4 Marianna 18S’s), Seaton Sound (I have two SubMersive HP’s near field), JTR Speakers (I don’t own but have heard many and Jeff the owner is great to talk to, and from what I’ve heard, great to work with), Rythmik, and JL Audio ( I own two fathoms and use them in a separate 2.2 music only system).

JTR, Deep Sea, and Seaton have all done custom designs for people, including many here on the forums. One design that may make large subs easier is a tall column sub with a veneer you and your spouse like.

A word of warning, Mark Seaton can be hard to reach at times. Read the Seaton thread in the sub forum to see how others are getting along to make sure you’re comfortable and everything is smooth before you order. I’ve never had that problem personally, and Mark is a wealth of knowledge, but I felt it prudent to put the disclaimer on.

If you aren’t going Synthesis certified, no need to go with their amps. Their amps are fine, but so are my ATI’s which cost less and have more options for channel count per amp.

Best of luck and enjoy the journey.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,729 Posts
In case anyone missed the previously posted links, here's more of the new Synthesis Custom Loudspeaker (SCL) products:

With the introduction today of the flagship SCL-1 and SSW-1, JBL Synthesis is expanding its patented technologies and acoustic advantages to large-format solutions scaled for ultra-premium, high channel count immersive audio systems.

The SCL-1 and SSW-1 are two of the first products to launch since the creation of the JBL Synthesis Product Council in 2020. They are the direct result of dealer/integrators who have been asking for a JBL Synthesis solution for large scale systems. Features and capabilities were reviewed and refined in conjunction with the members of the product council in order to deliver on the needs and expectations of the customers who have been requesting them.

SCL-1 LCR Loudspeaker

The SCL-1 loudspeaker is the new flagship of the JBL Synthesis SCL range, delivering unparalleled performance and uncompromised design. Optimized for custom installation behind projection screens, this large format LCR loudspeaker features JBL’s patented D2430K dual 3-inch diaphragm compression driver mated to a High-Definition Imaging (HDI TM) horn. With a pair of newly designed 12” cast frame Carbon Cellulose Composite Cone (C4) woofers in patented Complementary Bass Alignment System (C-BAS) configuration, the SCL-1 offers incredible output, dynamics, and detail for even the largest multichannel systems. The heavily braced MDF enclosure is finished in textured matte black and measures 48-inches high, 19-inches wide, and 15.3-inches deep with the included magnetically attached steel frame black fabric grille. Removing the grille reduces the depth to 14.5-inches. Connectivity is provided by dual sets of gold plated binding posts. Custom tuning can be achieved via the front panel configuration controls providing HF adjustments for various installation considerations as well as selections for bi-wire, bi-amp, and complete bypass of the internal crossover network for use in advanced systems with outboard electronic crossovers. SCL-1 availability begins in March with a retail price of $15,000 each.

SSW-1 Subwoofer

Part of the Synthesis Subwoofer series, the SSW-1 is a newly developed, ultra-high-performance subwoofer designed specifically to complement the acoustic capabilities of the SCL-1 large format LCR loudspeaker. Designed for horizontal or vertical application in large scale systems, the SSW-1 Subwoofer features dual high-excursion (4” peak-to-peak) 15” cast-frame woofers with composite cones and massive 6-inch voice coils. The 53.5-inch high x 24-inch wide x 22.8-inch deep subwoofer enclosure is solidly constructed with 1-inch thick cabinet walls and extensive internal bracing throughout and weighs in at more than 330 lb.! Enclosure tuning is via dual front-firing Slipstream ports, while connectivity is provided through two sets of gold-plated, spring-loaded binding posts - one for each woofer. With power handling of 2500W RMS per woofer and 5000W RMS per system, as well as extremely high SPL output and usable low-frequency extension to 13Hz, the SSW-1 seeks to provide the highest levels of sonic performance for custom home theater. The SSW-1 will begin shipping in March 2021 and retails at $7,500 each.

JBL Synthesis SCL-1 and SSW-1.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
320 Posts
In case anyone missed the previously posted links, here's more of the new Synthesis Custom Loudspeaker (SCL) products:

With the introduction today of the flagship SCL-1 and SSW-1, JBL Synthesis is expanding its patented technologies and acoustic advantages to large-format solutions scaled for ultra-premium, high channel count immersive audio systems.

The SCL-1 and SSW-1 are two of the first products to launch since the creation of the JBL Synthesis Product Council in 2020. They are the direct result of dealer/integrators who have been asking for a JBL Synthesis solution for large scale systems. Features and capabilities were reviewed and refined in conjunction with the members of the product council in order to deliver on the needs and expectations of the customers who have been requesting them.

SCL-1 LCR Loudspeaker

The SCL-1 loudspeaker is the new flagship of the JBL Synthesis SCL range, delivering unparalleled performance and uncompromised design. Optimized for custom installation behind projection screens, this large format LCR loudspeaker features JBL’s patented D2430K dual 3-inch diaphragm compression driver mated to a High-Definition Imaging (HDI TM) horn. With a pair of newly designed 12” cast frame Carbon Cellulose Composite Cone (C4) woofers in patented Complementary Bass Alignment System (C-BAS) configuration, the SCL-1 offers incredible output, dynamics, and detail for even the largest multichannel systems. The heavily braced MDF enclosure is finished in textured matte black and measures 48-inches high, 19-inches wide, and 15.3-inches deep with the included magnetically attached steel frame black fabric grille. Removing the grille reduces the depth to 14.5-inches. Connectivity is provided by dual sets of gold plated binding posts. Custom tuning can be achieved via the front panel configuration controls providing HF adjustments for various installation considerations as well as selections for bi-wire, bi-amp, and complete bypass of the internal crossover network for use in advanced systems with outboard electronic crossovers. SCL-1 availability begins in March with a retail price of $15,000 each.

SSW-1 Subwoofer

Part of the Synthesis Subwoofer series, the SSW-1 is a newly developed, ultra-high-performance subwoofer designed specifically to complement the acoustic capabilities of the SCL-1 large format LCR loudspeaker. Designed for horizontal or vertical application in large scale systems, the SSW-1 Subwoofer features dual high-excursion (4” peak-to-peak) 15” cast-frame woofers with composite cones and massive 6-inch voice coils. The 53.5-inch high x 24-inch wide x 22.8-inch deep subwoofer enclosure is solidly constructed with 1-inch thick cabinet walls and extensive internal bracing throughout and weighs in at more than 330 lb.! Enclosure tuning is via dual front-firing Slipstream ports, while connectivity is provided through two sets of gold-plated, spring-loaded binding posts - one for each woofer. With power handling of 2500W RMS per woofer and 5000W RMS per system, as well as extremely high SPL output and usable low-frequency extension to 13Hz, the SSW-1 seeks to provide the highest levels of sonic performance for custom home theater. The SSW-1 will begin shipping in March 2021 and retails at $7,500 each.

View attachment 3076320
Doesn’t the scl-1 use the same compression driver as the M2 which is priced at $6k? It probably adds more LFE than the M2 and SCL2 but most people will cross over at approx 80 Hz so it becomes irrelevant.

I’m struggling to see the purpose of this product placement. I was holding out on my theater redo to see what JBL came out with- as I had selected SCL2s for LCR. For the life of me, I don’t understand this at all.

Glad to see new SCL5s though. I ordered mine in 2019(!) and now will finally get.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
320 Posts
It was explained to me that the EQ would allow a JBL calibrator to come and do all the manual fine tuning to get things just right... and I'd then have a "Synthesis Certified" theater. Does that make any real difference, or is it just a bunch of hooey?

I'm not much of a tinkerer myself, and would prefer to just get things done once and then be done with it. I'm definitely in way over my head on all this stuff!
Certified means absolutely nothing. That’s marketing. My strong piece of advice: focus on having an expert calibration done. Call Adam Pelz. @appelz. It will cost you but you will be amazed at difference. He calibrates JBL (and non JBL) products.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,196 Posts
Can somebody please contact my employer and tell them I have had an HT emergency and will not be available the rest of the day :)
I just approved and signed your sick leave! :LOL:

Looks like good things are happening!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,544 Posts
Doesn’t the scl-1 use the same compression driver as the M2 which is priced at $6k? It probably adds more LFE than the M2 and SCL2 but most people will cross over at approx 80 Hz so it becomes irrelevant.

I’m struggling to see the purpose of this product placement. I was holding out on my theater redo to see what JBL came out with- as I had selected SCL2s for LCR. For the life of me, I don’t understand this at all.

Glad to see new SCL5s though. I ordered mine in 2019(!) and now will finally get.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Probably the same reason why the Seaton Sound Catalyst 12C has two 12" woofers but is designed the operate from 50 Hz and above. It's for having the most capability/SPL above the crossover point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
629 Posts
I won't recommend anything per se but give you an idea of how you can move up the latter in performance. I am leaving in walls out because so few people own them, there probably isn;'t much information out there about them and they won't touch any of the subs below in performance (and they are not meant to, they are meant for customers going after aesthetics and/or space limited reasons)

1)"good" - 2 or more SVS 16 ultra subs
2)"better" - 2 or more Seaton sound F18 subs
3)"best" - 2 or more JTR 4000 ULF

By the time you get to something like the JTR 4000 ULF....two of those would make your momma cry and let folks three houses down know you are watching a movie :)
I went with dual Rythmik F18 subs over the SVS SB16 as the F18 has a better frequency response yet costs less.

3076484


I went with sealed subs due to aesthetic reasons. I wanted them to match the dimensions of my A/V cabinet. A ported sub would have stuck out 2-4" more and would have been 6-10" taller. If I had a larger budget, I probably would have gotten the JTR RS1.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
629 Posts
I'm building a new home theater and need advice on a few components... help!

We've selected the SDP-55 and will be running a 9.4.4 setup, with SCL-4s (LCR), Revel 893 (sides), and Revel C763L (heights).

A couple questions:
1. How beneficial would it be to add the SDEC-4500P equalizer? I'm still not really sure how much it helps overall, but the salesperson says it's pretty essential.
2. Does it make sense to go with 2x SDA-8300 for the amps? They're a bit pricey, but I'm told they're great and worth the spend.
3. We haven't picked the subwoofers yet. Do JBL subs work better with the other Synthesis components, or would any brand of quality subwoofer do as good a job?

I'm in a different state from where our house is being built, and the pandemic has made it tough to demo any of the gear locally... so any advice you can offer would be a huge help. Thanks!
Just want to make sure you are aware that the C763L needs to be crossed at 120-150hz. I have mine crossed at 130hz as per ARC Genesis results.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rex Anderson

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
I have seen the music performance PK between M2 and Salon2 before, and the conclusion is that Salon2 wins, I don’t know who will be stronger when the two are used in theater LCR?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
I have seen the music performance PK between M2 and Salon2 before, and the conclusion is that Salon2 wins, I don’t know who will be stronger when the two are used in theater LCR?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Apparently it cost $6k to have someone from Harman come down and calibrate. The local dealer says this is the real benefit of having the 4500P as part of the system. The calibration and 4500P together end up being ~ $11k.

Is that the best use for the $11k, or would it be smarter to spend that on upgrading the LCRs to SCL-2's (instead of SCL-4's) and splurging on the JL Audio Fathom 213 in-wall subs?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,729 Posts
Apparently it cost $6k to have someone from Harman come down and calibrate. The local dealer says this is the real benefit of having the 4500P as part of the system. The calibration and 4500P together end up being ~ $11k.

Is that the best use for the $11k, or would it be smarter to spend that on upgrading the LCRs to SCL-2's (instead of SCL-4's) and splurging on the JL Audio Fathom 213 in-wall subs?
Contact Adam Pelz and get his input. I'm not sure you need the 4500P if you use JBL amps that have the tuning files for the speakers. JBL subs are as good as JL Audio and cost less. SCL-2's are great for front LCR and you may need them if you want to play loud in your room. I had a HT the same size as yours with Dunlavy SC-V's for the front LR.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,497 Posts
Reach out to Dgage @ Deep Sea Sound. He can talk to you about some in-wall subs. ;)
What he said. David is one of the most honest and genuine guys I have met on AVS. He also makes one hell of a sub.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Frohlich

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,691 Posts
What he said. David is one of the most honest and genuine guys I have met on AVS. He also makes one hell of a sub.
I second that David is a great dude. I have dual Deep Sea Sound 18s and could not be happier. David will also do whatever it takes to make his customers happy and makes a terrific line of subs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
862 Posts
Apparently it cost $6k to have someone from Harman come down and calibrate. The local dealer says this is the real benefit of having the 4500P as part of the system. The calibration and 4500P together end up being ~ $11k.

Is that the best use for the $11k, or would it be smarter to spend that on upgrading the LCRs to SCL-2's (instead of SCL-4's) and splurging on the JL Audio Fathom 213 in-wall subs?
IMO something very similar can be achieved regarding the overall system calibration with a proper Dirac Live calibration with the correct target curves. I definitely wouldn't be spending $11k on that if it will cause you to compromise on the rest of the system. If cost is no object, I would go for it, but you'd be much better off upgrading the front L/C/R and subs with that money! Especially considering your processor does Dirac Live full and the new multi-sub bass control.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,845 Posts
Does any friend know that M2 and Salon2 are better as cinema LCR? Thank you
Do a search for the shoot-out that @John Schuermann did. They are different, I don't think you can say one is better than the other for any particular use. The Salon2 may have "won" but the margin was very close. I doubt anyone (at least I) would say there was a clear winner; a lot came down to preference. Either would create an awesome system.

The M2 is a two-way with a compression driver for the treble that some feel sounds more "dynamic". I'd question that blind. It has a more "boxy", "industrial" look that is a matter of taste -- in a HT, that may be exactly the right look for you. The Salon2 is a four-way system with a gorgeous cabinet well-suited to more exposed living-room environment, and uses conventional drivers. The M2 requires external (active) crossover and EQ with separate bass/treble amplifiers; the Salon2 is a passive speaker design.

I love my Salon2/Voice2 system and it is perfect for my small'ish media room using a 65" OLED TV and having the speakers on the floor around the MLP. If I had a projector screen and larger dedicated room I'd probably go the M2 route.

Whichever you choose is going to be top-of-the-line system and sound awesome.

FWIWFM - Don
 
  • Like
Reactions: Frohlich

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,729 Posts
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,691 Posts
Does any friend know that M2 and Salon2 are better as cinema LCR? Thank you
Do a search for the shoot-out that @John Schuermann did. They are different, I don't think you can say one is better than the other for any particular use. The Salon2 may have "won" but the margin was very close. I doubt anyone (at least I) would say there was a clear winner; a lot came down to preference. Either would create an awesome system.

The M2 is a two-way with a compression driver for the treble that some feel sounds more "dynamic". I'd question that blind. It has a more "boxy", "industrial" look that is a matter of taste -- in a HT, that may be exactly the right look for you. The Salon2 is a four-way system with a gorgeous cabinet well-suited to more exposed living-room environment, and uses conventional drivers. The M2 requires external (active) crossover and EQ with separate bass/treble amplifiers; the Salon2 is a passive speaker design.

I love my Salon2/Voice2 system and it is perfect for my small'ish media room using a 65" OLED TV and having the speakers on the floor around the MLP. If I had a projector screen and larger dedicated room I'd probably go the M2 route.

Whichever you choose is going to be top-of-the-line system and sound awesome.

FWIWFM - Don
Don is spot on. You are talking Ferrari's and Lamborghini's here....both are towards the top of the food chain. There isn't a clear better speaker and it will come down to personal preferences. I will say the M2 is probably more suited for dedicated HT room than the Salons. Also, two of the best theaters on AVS use M2s as the LCR in the theater (Rob Hahn's theater and The Bland's theater).
 
4501 - 4520 of 4554 Posts
Top