AVS Forum banner

26221 - 26240 of 41909 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
534 Posts
did I step on a land mine? =)

I appreciate the feedback. I heard the JTR 212s that are ported and they are incredible.

thanks for the feedback
 

·
Deep Sea Sound
Joined
·
3,639 Posts
OH boy, here we go:
Come on, I spent an entire day driving up and back to Frohlich's to get some hard data so we could move past the sealed vs ported 212 midbass issue...and I think we have. Right? :)

Dude, I have 4 2225's that are in 4648a cabs but I have a much better chance unloading them without the cabinets, so I can make you a sweet deal on all 4 if you want. The only difference between them and the 2226 is slightly less power handling that you will NEVER run into issues with anyways. Running them full tilt on an epx4000 I was barely tickling the second light on the dial, and the ports were blowing the screen out at least a foot at that point :)
I was planning to run them sealed so let me do some completely accurate virtual modeling in WinISD and I'll text you. :) But you've got my attention. :)
 

·
Deep Sea Sound
Joined
·
3,639 Posts
did I step on a land mine? =)

I appreciate the feedback. I heard the JTR 212s that are ported and they are incredible.

thanks for the feedback
Haha...no...I previously stepped on the land mine. Like I said, most people on AVS have the ported 212s. When I questioned the midbass I was getting out of my sealed 212s, it was an enlightening experience for all of us (IMO). I'm glad we were able to get some hard data so we could all learn and move on.

And I'm glad I get to share some of that knowledge so you might be able to make a more informed decision than I made.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,290 Posts
Why am I always on the other side of these discussions :confused: :p.

I had dual Danley TH Spuds under my second row riser and ALWAYS found that the bass was localizable in that the bass energy was slamming me from behind instead of from the front where the action or event was emanating. I also had dual Captivators in the front of the room and except when demoing (e.g. showing off the earthquake shake) I much preferred the bass with the Danleys off. I/we could literally feel the pounding in the chair backs (50-120Hz) and it was very distracting. I suppose if all you are after is spleen busting (car audio type) bass then this is a good idea. I guess it's the difference between a nightclub and an IMAX. Just my opinion, YMMV :)

Rob, if you turn the front subs up about 2-3 dB hotter than the rear subs -- they are no longer localizable .... at least to me. I have the same annoyance unless the front subs are run a little hotter.

OR ALTERNATIVELY the crossover is turned down to 60 or 70z and no high frequencies are fed to the near field subs. That works great too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,495 Posts
For those of you running the Denon 4520 with JTR speakers can you tell me how well the AVR handles the 4ohm load and also does it get very hot when running loud? I have a friend with 228's and is considering a 4520.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,130 Posts
For those of you running the Denon 4520 with JTR speakers can you tell me how well the AVR handles the 4ohm load and also does it get very hot when running loud? I have a friend with 228's and is considering a 4520.
Mine only gets mildly warm when worked had driving 212s with four Slanted 8s. It is rated to drive a 4 ohm load. Mine has been an issue free unit.

If he can wait, there will be 20 used units on here in the next month. The new 7200 Denon flagship hits in the next few weeks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,939 Posts
For those of you running the Denon 4520 with JTR speakers can you tell me how well the AVR handles the 4ohm load and also does it get very hot when running loud? I have a friend with 228's and is considering a 4520.
Running one with my 212's and no problem even at reference with music w/60hz xover to the subs.

Running with phantom center for now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
261 Posts
Has anyone heard the new 2015 212HT speakers yet? Any audible difference?
 

·
Deep Sea Sound
Joined
·
3,639 Posts
Has anyone heard the new 2015 212HT speakers yet? Any audible difference?
I have not but I have been asked about new vs used. New ones are listed at $6900 for 3 plus shipping. Used ones are closer to $5000 plus shipping. No way the difference is that big if you're comparing new vs used.

Jeff said the midbass was flatter and I never was able to get a clear answer to what that actually means. I doubt you'd hear much of a difference although measurements might show an improvement.

My biggest concern with the new versions is the change in the horn and if that will affect the sonic signature of the 212 like the 215.

I look forward to someone giving us the real scoop though but I haven't seen anyone come on the boards and mention the 2015 version yet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,623 Posts
Take a break from BASS...

Here's a movie suggestion: Kung Pow!

I just watched it again,.. hilarious... this movie is soooo bad, it's become a classic... kinda like The Rocky Horror Movie...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,878 Posts
My biggest concern with the new versions is the change in the horn and if that will affect the sonic signature of the 212 like the 215.
I really do not think the wooden horn verses the Aluminum horn has much, if any, to do with the sonic sig. The main differences you are hearing are related to the different Crossover designs between the 212 and 215 both RT & RM.

The 212 is only concerned in getting the most from 60hz up while the 215 goes bottom to top. I would guess a little of the high end Frequency is the trade off for a gain in the lower FR.

Frohlich has the Aluminum for L&R with the wooden for center Did you Hear a sonic difference?

I know they measure different b/c of the cabinet size but do they sound different Sonically?

What do you think? :)
 

·
Deep Sea Sound
Joined
·
3,639 Posts
I really do not think the wooden horn verses the Aluminum horn has much, if any, to do with the sonic sig. The main differences you are hearing are related to the different Crossover designs between the 212 and 215 both RT & RM.

The 212 is only concerned in getting the most from 60hz up while the 215 goes bottom to top. I would guess a little of the high end Frequency is the trade off for a gain in the lower FR.

Frohlich has the Aluminum for L&R with the wooden for center Did you Hear a sonic difference?

I know they measure different b/c of the cabinet size but do they sound different Sonically?

What do you think? :)
I'm really not sure what causes the difference in sound but it was pretty interesting to see @asoofi1's reaction to the 212 and 215. I liken it to Coke and Pepsi, you likely have your favorite and it is probably what you're used to drinking. And if you think you're getting one and you get the other, it is quite a noticeable difference. Is one better than the other...not really. But since I got used to the 212, that is the sound I was expecting out of the 215 and I was disappointed when I heard something different. It doesn't really matter to me as I'm keeping my 2013 Noesis 212s but it may affect others that hear an older Noesis and purchase the new Noesis. Then again, maybe the sonic signature difference with the 215 won't follow the 2015 212, we don't know yet.

Regarding Frohlich's wood horn center channel, we didn't listen to just the center so I didn't get a chance to hear for a difference. It didn't call attention to itself but then again, we had all 3 front speakers going.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,130 Posts
The ones to properly get opinion about the 212's horn vs the 215's. Is the ones had or still own both. And I'm sure they have them EQed to their liking. I have and only owned the 215's so I can't give a opinion. But I do know that this is one hell of a speaker which I intend to stay with for a very long time. And these 215's has a lot of headroom you throw at it for EQ. IMO when comparing is that one needs more time listening then just a day with just some demo's and a few clips. So come on you guys who owned both. Let's here you opinion between the two.. (RMK, carp, N8) :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,878 Posts
Cool David
I am going to order a pair of new 212HTs. I had planned on keeping my T12s to use as a center and side surrounds but since I'm married that sh-t is not going to fly. I am keeping them till after I get the 212s just so I can compare the midbass between the two. I really don't expect there will be an audible difference but who knows. I have always been impressed with the T12HTs midbass so ALA its equal I will be happy.
 

·
Deep Sea Sound
Joined
·
3,639 Posts
I really do not think the wooden horn verses the Aluminum horn has much, if any, to do with the sonic sig. The main differences you are hearing are related to the different Crossover designs between the 212 and 215 both RT & RM.

The 212 is only concerned in getting the most from 60hz up while the 215 goes bottom to top. I would guess a little of the high end Frequency is the trade off for a gain in the lower FR.

Frohlich has the Aluminum for L&R with the wooden for center Did you Hear a sonic difference?

I know they measure different b/c of the cabinet size but do they sound different Sonically?

What do you think? :)
I just thought about this and thought it pertinent. The more measuring and learning I do, the more complex I realize acoustics are and that without scientific approaches to testing (one variable at a time), I wouldn't come close to accurately describing the cause of minute changes in response. So I really have no idea what accounts for the sonic difference between the 212 and 215.

I will say that if I hadn't owned the 212 and then I bought the 215, I would fall in love with the 215. Again, a Coke vs Pepsi, taste difference, not better or worse.
 

·
Deep Sea Sound
Joined
·
3,639 Posts
The ones to properly get opinion about the 212's horn vs the 215's. Is the ones had or still own both. And I'm sure they have them EQed to their liking. I have and only owned the 215's so I can't give a opinion. But I do know that this is one hell of a speaker which I intend to stay with for a very long time. And these 215's has a lot of headroom you throw at it for EQ. IMO when comparing is that one needs more time listening then just a day with just some demo's and a few clips. So come on you guys who owned both. Let's here you opinion between the two.. (RMK, carp, N8) :)
Coach owned both and decided to go with the Cat12 over the 215 partially due to size but partially because the Cat12 was sonically closer (more forward) to the 212 than the 215 was. And we also A/B/C'd them and the difference was noticeable. And Coach did indeed get the 215s professionally calibrated by his normal tuning guy. Just another data point to say that Coach preferred Coke, or was it Pepsi.
 

·
Deep Sea Sound
Joined
·
3,639 Posts
Take a break from BASS...

Here's a movie suggestion: Kung Pow!

I just watched it again,.. hilarious... this movie is soooo bad, it's become a classic... kinda like The Rocky Horror Movie...
First Into the Storm and now this? Your movie recommendation card is seriously close to getting pulled. :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,420 Posts
Rob, if you turn the front subs up about 2-3 dB hotter than the rear subs -- they are no longer localizable .... at least to me. I have the same annoyance unless the front subs are run a little hotter.

OR ALTERNATIVELY the crossover is turned down to 60 or 70z and no high frequencies are fed to the near field subs. That works great too.

@Archaea @RMK!

Don't forget, Rob has a suspended floor. At Doug's it feel to me like he has nearfield subs as is with his G-Horns and suspended floor.
 
26221 - 26240 of 41909 Posts
Top