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That may be correct for Mike, but how would anyone else know for sure as what ever display devise they are looking at is different.
We were not talking about color. The photo showed no detail in the clouds and JVC DTM does show detail in the clouds, if the projector is set up correctly.
 

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Seriously, this is an interesting argument. You're suggesting that whatever JVC's DTM images look like in person, the source that captured the images was the same and therefore both images were subject to the same level of distortion, rendering the differences valid.
Finally someone that puts things in a bit of a correct perspective, now to make an end to al this I will put up a new picture that I will take not compressed and with better exposure.

Again, the fact that there is more info on the real image than that shown in my overcopmpressed picture is absolutely correct, but the difference in both pictures is stays for 99% the same;
Did I make a mistake in throwing that picture online? maybe, it was not to show how "bad" the JVC is, absolutely not as I was one of the first in Europe that got a sample from JVC before it was released and I have written a complete review about how overwhelmed I was with the result.

The only, and only thing I wanted to show was that at some point, with a very difficult scene, the external processors take things to a higher level.
That is not more then normal as the JVC has to do things with the power it has on board, it was a free upgrade that does fantastic things as where the external devices cost a small fortune.
This entire thing has gotten way out of control and as I was the one who started the drama I will try to^also put an end to it.
I hope that when I put up a more quality picture that shows more reality then the one I have put up first, the ones that commented on the accuracy of the first one will also be so unnest ast to comment on the new one if it matches there own.
So give me about 15 minutes and I will do what I promised.
 

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We were not talking about color. The photo showed no detail in the clouds and JVC DTM does show detail in the clouds, if the projector is set up correctly.

Mike, all things aside, the projector was set up correctly, the picture was not the best one to make the point I wanted to make.
So please, lets all be civilized and professional here and give me the opportunity to make a new one that hopefully you agree on and makes an end to all this very unnecessary posts.
 

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I hope that when I put up a more quality picture that shows more reality then the one I have put up first, the ones that commented on the accuracy of the first one will also be so unnest ast to comment on the new one if it matches there own.
So give me about 15 minutes and I will do what I promised.
Actually I think what would be more convincing is to have those who are getting better results from the JVC DTM post their pictures of the same scene :D
 

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So here we are, a new set of pictures, I have "underexposed" them "a little bit":rolleyes: to not have the same discussion over and over and over again.
So, Mike, Craig, Kris, is this wat you wanted to see, and what all the fuss was about? I think you know what I mean Mike ;-)
Now please don't say they are to dark now :D

So YESSSSSSS i see clouds on the JVC DTM, I saw them also the first time on the first picture only they where showing up as macro blocking from the compression of the picture.
So if this is what everyone was so upset about, then here you go, lets hope we can all be friends again and concentrate on some more important things than this.
 

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So here we are, a new set of pictures, I have "underexposed" them "a little bit":rolleyes: to not have the same discussion over and over and over again.
So, Mike, Craig, Kris, is this wat you wanted to see, and what all the fuss was about? I think you know what I mean Mike ;-)
Now please don't say they are to dark now :D

So YESSSSSSS i see clouds on the JVC DTM, I saw them also the first time on the first picture only they where showing up as macro blocking from the compression of the picture.
So if this is what everyone was so upset about, then here you go, lets hope we can all be friends again and concentrate on some more important things than this.
Then why were you arguing with us, when we said there should be detail in the clouds? If you had just said, yes, the clouds do actually show detail on screen, that the picture is not showing, we could have saved several hours of posting. :)
 

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Then why were you arguing with us, when we said there should be detail in the clouds? If you had just said, yes, the clouds do actually show detail on screen, that the picture is not showing, we could have saved several hours of posting. :)
Oh man, I did and I also said over and over again and they did show up on the picture, only over compressed, that also was mentioned over and over again, together with the pictures where not ment as a reference in. the first place but hey, I have learned a valuable lesson here what that is I will keep to myself because this thing has gone far enough.

I rest my case here and put my energy in some things that matter more then a discussion over clouds.

No offense but, I have better things to do the to over and over explain myself.

All the best
 

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So here we are, a new set of pictures, I have "underexposed" them "a little bit":rolleyes: to not have the same discussion over and over and over again.
So, Mike, Craig, Kris, is this wat you wanted to see, and what all the fuss was about? I think you know what I mean Mike ;-)
Now please don't say they are to dark now :D

So YESSSSSSS i see clouds on the JVC DTM, I saw them also the first time on the first picture only they where showing up as macro blocking from the compression of the picture.
So if this is what everyone was so upset about, then here you go, lets hope we can all be friends again and concentrate on some more important things than this.
Then why were you arguing with us, when we said there should be detail in the clouds? If you had just said, yes, the clouds do actually show detail on screen, that the picture is not showing, we could have saved several hours of posting. :)
Kobayashi Maru ;)
 

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Actually I think what would be more convincing is to have those who are getting better results from the JVC DTM post their pictures of the same scene :D
I think this is an excellent idea. I believe @jetsen has handled all of this back and forth with absolute decorum. He only posted what he was seeing and that has been confirmed by several other posters. If pictures exist that show the JVC DTM performing differently on this extreme outlier of HDR mastered content I would also like to see those pictures.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

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I think this is an excellent idea. I believe @jetsen has handled all of this back and forth with absolute decorum. He only posted what he was seeing and that has been confirmed by several other posters. If pictures exist that show the JVC DTM performing differently on this extreme outlier of HDR mastered content I would also like to see those pictures.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Look at post 24605. If several other posters were seeing what that picture showed, then they should be paying someone to calibrate their projector.
 

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This entire thing has gotten way out of control and as I was the one who started the drama I will try to^also put an end to it.
I hope that when I put up a more quality picture that shows more reality then the one I have put up first, the ones that commented on the accuracy of the first one will also be so unnest ast to comment on the new one if it matches there own.
So give me about 15 minutes and I will do what I promised.
Hi, Jetsen. Thanks for making this effort. I can understand how you feel that posting that one photo got you a lot of blow back. I know maybe some wanted as accurate a record of JVC’s DTM capabilities, some may be heavily reliant on the product’s sales for their livelihood and pined for more accuracy, others may have just liked to better understand, etc. Whatever their reasons, mine are not as good. I probably shouldn't have stuck my nose out in the first place ‘cause I no longer have the NX7 to begin with and I never even saw that particular footage on it. Really, I was just curious about how much better MadVR/Envy was and somehow got caught up in the photo comparison fiasco. :)

Edit: I did see Arrows and Woofer's posts on the subject later.
 

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Maybe we should all just get back to talking about our surround sound setups!
 

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Hi, Jetsen. Thanks for making this effort. I can understand how you feel that posting that one photo got you a lot of blow back. I know maybe some wanted as accurate a record of JVC’s DTM capabilities, some may be heavily reliant on the product’s sales for their livelihood and pined for more accuracy, others may have just liked to better understand, etc. Whatever their reasons, mine are not as good. I probably shouldn't have stuck my nose out in the first place ‘cause I no longer have the NX7 to begin with and I never even saw that particular footage on it. Really, I was just curious about how much better MadVR/Envy was and somehow got caught up in the photo comparison fiasco. :)

Edit: I did see Arrows and Woofer's posts on the subject later.
You really think so? If it was strictly a matter of money, then you would think people in the business would be agreeing and saying you should buy a Lumagen or an Envy and get much better results. To me, all it was about was accuracy. I just posted that the JVC picture should be showing details in the clouds. I never discussed the comparison, because I have never seen that scene with MadVR/Envy on a projector. Heck, I have not seen any scene with MadVR /Envy on a projector, so i can't discuss the merits of one over the other.
 

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You really think so? If it was strictly a matter of money, then you would think people in the business would be agreeing and saying you should buy a Lumagen or an Envy and get much better results. To me, all it was about was accuracy. I just posted that the JVC picture should be showing details in the clouds. I never discussed the comparison, because I have never seen that scene with MadVR/Envy on a projector. Heck, I have not seen any scene with MadVR /Envy on a projector, so i can't discuss the merits of one over the other.
Hi, Mike. This wasn't a nose-thumbing directed at anyone, especially not at you. I just felt bad for the guy and was setting out a bunch of reasons why, in my opinion, the extensive back-and-forth can happen --pointing out that my reason wasn't even as good.

By the way. the quote does say "pined for more accuracy." And if it's the may be more reliant part that you find troubling, I would clarify that what I meant simply was that DTM's accuracy for those whose sale of JVCs is an important part of their business can be a motivator to speak out. I'm not so sure why that would be a bad thing. I certainly would hope my seller has a grasp of the most accurate information about the products it sells and sets the record straight too.

In all, I didn't mean to come across the wrong way and get anyone even more defensive...just felt bad for Jetsen who is making an effort. :)
 

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Most people aren't ever going to build a HTPC, so the JVC with DTM is still the best option for most enthusiasts - even if not perfect. And only an extremely small number of folks will buy a Lumagen, or Envy Pro ( if it ever ships ). Doubtful anyone will buy an Envy Extreme and an RS1000 or 2000 - considering it costs almost twice what an RS2000 sells for and over twice an RS1000. So no, MadVR really has no impact on the vast majority of JVC sales, since you still need to buy a projector to begin with, to even need MadVR. Seeing as the JVC's have the best native contrast, they would still sell even if the onboard DTM didn't exist.
 

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Most people aren't ever going to build a HTPC, so the JVC with DTM is still the best option for most enthusiasts - even if not perfect. And only an extremely small number of folks will buy a Lumagen, or Envy Pro ( if it ever ships ). Doubtful anyone will buy an Envy Extreme and an RS1000 or 2000 - considering it costs almost twice what an RS2000 sells for and over twice an RS1000. So no, MadVR really has no impact on the vast majority of JVC sales, since you still need to buy a projector to begin with, to even need MadVR. Seeing as the JVC's have the best native contrast, they would still sell even if the onboard DTM didn't exist.
Craig,

To me this brings back sometime ago when there was a discussion on just what was the "Real-World" improvement with any of the three after-market video processors ???
There is No-Way I can recall what you said but, and this is my words not Craig's, it is not some HUGE difference.
Can you see a difference, of course you can.
But, is it worth $12,000 US dollars for the New/Latest Envy I just saw that price today???
As you say above, yes, but only a very-very-very small group are going to step-up and spend that many dollars for that small an improvement.
Also, while I'm chatting here, personally I Applaud JVC for adding their DTM firmware to the latest three lamp-based-projectors and for Free !!!

I know speaking just for myself and not bringing anyone else or their opinions as I continue to watch my JVC RS4500 it would have to be a HUGE and I do mean HUGE difference for me to spend $12,000 US dollars for the Envy or the cost of the Lumagen.

Thank-goodness there are others on this AVS Internet Site though that spending $8-10-12 thousand dollars for whatever percentage of video improvement it's worth every penny to them. :D :) :D

You know what would be really-really-really Super-Nice Craig ???
For someone that the majority of us trust to simply pick a normal movie that already looks AWESOME without any external video processor.
Then, turn on any of the three video processors and simply state in easy to understand English what is the Real-World-Improvement ???
Like as an example, 0 to 10 scale that would be simple to understand ............
Meaning, 5 on the above ^^^ scale would be a WHAT ???
50% improvement over what was being seen once again on a normal movie that all of us have watched.
Now that buddy (Yes Craig I said Buddy) as I feel that way with you and a few others on this site would be interesting.

Terry
 

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You know what would be really-really-really Super-Nice Craig ???
For someone that the majority of us trust to simply pick a normal movie that already looks AWESOME without any external video processor.
Then, turn on any of the three video processors and simply state in easy to understand English what is the Real-World-Improvement ???
Like as an example, 0 to 10 scale that would be simple to understand ............
Meaning, 5 on the above ^^^ scale would be a WHAT ???
50% improvement over what was being seen once again on a normal movie that all of us have watched.
Now that buddy (Yes Craig I said Buddy) as I feel that way with you and a few others on this site would be interesting.

Terry
You need to wait for more Envy's to be available, and hopefully Kris Deering will eventually be able to do a 3 way comparison.
 

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Bingo.../forum/images/smilies/wink.gif
Most people aren't ever going to build a HTPC, so the JVC with DTM is still the best option for most enthusiasts - even if not perfect. And only an extremely small number of folks will buy a Lumagen, or Envy Pro ( if it ever ships ). Doubtful anyone will buy an Envy Extreme and an RS1000 or 2000 - considering it costs almost twice what an RS2000 sells for and over twice an RS1000. So no, MadVR really has no impact on the vast majority of JVC sales, since you still need to buy a projector to begin with, to even need MadVR. Seeing as the JVC's have the best native contrast, they would still sell even if the onboard DTM didn't exist.
Bingo 😉
 

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Look at post 24605. If several other posters were seeing what that picture showed, then they should be paying someone to calibrate their projector.
I'm not taking sides, but this kind of comment is not very convincing unless you can show pictures of what the scene should look like, with proper calibration.

From what I have seen, all the pictures posted to-date seem to have been discounted as inaccurate, unrepresentative of the JVC DTM.

I have attached @jetsen’s reposted pictures, but have removed the perspective distortion and adjusted the exposure slightly to compare them with my “reference picture”.
 

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