[Groesbeek]

Thanks Groesbeek, but if I use Theatre Optimizer I have to select Frame Adpt HDR. Unless im missing something.

Yes you’re right. I had the same issue as I wanted to have a different HDR10 frame adapt set up for ATV (brighter) than for UHD. Can I ask why you want a different picture mode for 2.4 HDR10 vs. other aspect ratios? I think most others, including myself, are just using the Frame Adapt mode for all aspect ratios on HDR10.

 

[Franin]

Yes you’re right. I had the same issue as I wanted to have a different HDR10 frame adapt set up for ATV (brighter) than for UHD. Can I ask why you want a different picture mode for 2.4 HDR10 vs. other aspect ratios? I think most others, including myself, are just using the Frame Adapt mode for all aspect ratios on HDR10.

Yes Im using the Frame Adapt mode for all aspect ratios but just thinking about it when calibrating at the 16.9 aspect ratio and then having to use Zoom for 2.40 aspect ratio wouldn't it affect the results ?
When I did my last calibration it doesn't seem like it does, but im sure it must have some change. Unless im wrong.

 

[Mike Garrett]

Thanks, Mike, for confirming this. Could you speculate as to why the RP consistently reports the same MaxCLL/MaxFall (1000/400) metadata for both the NX7 & RS3000 under all circumstances irrespective of actual content's metadata nits?

It is set up so that the projector does none of the tone mapping. If it was sending the actual values, the projector would apply tone mapping and you do not want double tone mapping.

 

[Mike Garrett]

I set up my nx7 today and my room is not long enough to fill my screen ,I'm about 2 inches short on each side of the screen. I need to fill a 105 wide screen from about 12.5 feet . Will a panamorph lens help my situation?

No. It is a vertical compression lens. It does not increase width. You need a conversion lens or move the projector back.

 

[raullopez1234]

Are you using the Zoom aspect ratio which is wider than Auto?

I'll try that when I get home from work this afternoon , I did not change anything in the aspect ratio. Thanks.

 

[Mike Garrett]

I'll try that when I get home from work this afternoon , I did not change anything in the aspect ratio. Thanks.

That will probably allow you to fill the width of your screen, but it will cut off some of the image vertically.

 

[Groesbeek]

I'll try that when I get home from work this afternoon , I did not change anything in the aspect ratio. Thanks.

You should be ok. I believe with the zoom mode (17:9) at max wide throw distance is 1.4x the max width. So with 12.5’ max screen width is 150”/1.4 = 107”. Use that for 2.4 ratio and zoom out a bit for full 16:9.

 

[docrog]

It is set up so that the projector does none of the tone mapping. If it was sending the actual values, the projector would apply tone mapping and you do not want double tone mapping.

Are you saying that tone mapping is ON by default and that providing a constrained metadata range is the only way to defeat it? If so, I'm confused as to why the JVC would apply any tone mapping if it was in HDR mode, rather than frame-by-frame, irrespective of the MaxCLL/FALL being reported. I would anticipate that JVC is aware that there is a portion of owners also use an external DTM device such as Lumagen or madVR. This seems to be a very clunky mechanism to defeat (the default?) JVC DTM.

 

[jeahrens]

Hi all, its been awhile since I've calibrated my projector. If I choose User 4 for 16.9 and User 5 for 2.40 ( Both HDR ) how do I assign User 5 to 2.40 ? Thanks

For calibration purposes it shouldn't matter what AR you're projecting as long as the meter is reading the illuminated area of the screen properly. I calibrated HDR in a user mode with the same color and filter settings as I watch it in. SDR calibration I did the same on a different user mode. Stepping the iris down 4 steps and running color calibration for each range for both the HDR and SDR user mode.

When watching material in different ARs you will rely on Theater Optimizer (TO) to compensate for the image size changes for each AR. Just make sure you have the screen size calculated properly in each Installation Mode. The 16:9 diagonal screen size calculation for a zoomed image should be calculated by inputting the image width into a screen size calculator for a 16:9 screen to ascertain the diagonal measurement. For example my 10' wide 2.35:1 image is equal to the width of a 137" diagonal 16:9 screen, so in that Installation Mode the screen size is 140" (137" rounded).

 

[Dominic Chan]

Are you saying that tone mapping is ON by default and that providing a constrained metadata range is the only way to defeat it? If so, I'm confused as to why the JVC would apply any tone mapping if it was in HDR mode, rather than frame-by-frame, irrespective of the MaxCLL/FALL being reported. I would anticipate that JVC is aware that there is a portion of owners also use an external DTM device such as Lumagen or madVR. This seems to be a very clunky mechanism to defeat (the default?) JVC DTM.

HDR goes up to 1000 or 4000 nits whereas the projector can produce probably 150 nits at best, so without tone mapping everything above the projector’s peak luminance will be hard clipped. Thus Tone mapping is always ON and there’s no way to defeat it (other than creating a custom curve without tone mapping).

Note, however, that dynamic tone mapping can be turned ON or OFF. In many cases people may be using the term “tone mapping” loosely to refer to “dynamic tone mapping”, which can cause the confusion.

 

[docrog]

HDR goes up to 1000 or 4000 nits whereas the projector can produce probably 150 nits at best, so without tone mapping everything above the projector’s peak luminance will be hard clipped. Thus Tone mapping is always ON and there’s no way to defeat it (other than creating a custom curve without tone mapping).

Note, however, that dynamic tone mapping can be turned ON or OFF. Some people may be using the term “tone mapping” loosely to refer to “dynamic tone mapping”.

Dom, are you saying that the Lumagen (or madVR) will deliver dynamically toned HDR metadata to the JVC which will then superimpose it on a fixed/static curve (such as HDR10) unless a custom curve is selected? If so, will the calibrator typically create a custom HDR curve (based, for example, on 3DLUT) which better takes advantage of the external renderer?

 

[DLCPhoto]

Dom, are you saying that the Lumagen (or madVR) will deliver dynamically toned HDR metadata to the JVC which will then superimpose it on a fixed/static curve (such as HDR10) unless a custom curve is selected? If so, will the calibrator typically create a custom HDR curve (based, for example, on 3DLUT) which better takes advantage of the external renderer?

I'm not Dominic, but I've been following this discussion, and I'm a little confused.

With the madVR Envy, the JVC is configured to use a regular Gamma (I use 2.4) for HDR content, and the Envy is set to map its output to that 2.4. I have the HDR flag enabled on the Envy, so the JVC 'knows' to use the BT2020/2.4 Picture Mode I have configured as the default. (This is with JVC 3.10. Apparently 3.50 makes it difficult to choose a 2.4 Gamma for the auto-select HDR mode, but that's a separate issue.)

So it really doesn't matter what metadata the Envy is outputting, since it (ETA: the JVC) is using a 2.4 Gamma. It isn't doing any tone mapping, regardless of whatever metadata is sent.

Does the Lumagen work differently in this regard?

 

[surroundsound99]

My Theater Optimizer is making colors lean towards red, especially faces. Do I adjust the red down? Or adjust the blue, green, or white up? Or do both and adjust red down and others up? NX7, no Lumagen, no calibration done.

 

[markmon1]

Dom, are you saying that the Lumagen (or madVR) will deliver dynamically toned HDR metadata to the JVC which will then superimpose it on a fixed/static curve (such as HDR10) unless a custom curve is selected? If so, will the calibrator typically create a custom HDR curve (based, for example, on 3DLUT) which better takes advantage of the external renderer?

This is what's happening. The content is far out of range for the projector's capabilities to display. So some device must tone map it. Either the source, a processor, or the display device, itself. In this case, your Lumagen is tone mapping so it is essentially sending BT2020 tone-mapped SDR content to your projector. The only reason that the HDR meta data is being sent, IMO, is because of the issue where if JVC doesn't receive HDR meta data, it won't allow the HDR filter to be engaged. Otherwise, these fields should be empty, outright. So having 100/400 is fine. Those values are completely ignored / not used.

 

[Technology3456]

I don't own an NX7 or NX9 but was wondering if any owners of the NX7 or NX9 have also owned a high end 1080p DLP projector in the past, and if you notice any difference in specifically the motion handling between DLP and the NX7 or NX9?

I ask because the motion of LCD, LED, and OLED TVs has bothered my eyes in the past, whereas my DLP projector with a color wheel, an Infocus IN83, does not. And I was told that lcos projectors handle motion like OLEDs and LCDs do, whereas with DLP, I was told I could even get an improvement on my color wheel DLP projector's motion handling if I bought either a 3 chip DLP, or a DLP that uses red, green, and blue LEDs for lightsource and color instead of a color wheel and a bulb.

So I bought a DLP - LED projector, but I am having a similar issue with its motion as I did on OLED and LCD and LED TVs, both motion "smearing" as well as object trails in really fast movements, and artifacts when objects move different directions on the screen at the same time, so now I don't know what to think. If it somehow turns out that the NX7 or NX9 have better motion, then it would make it the obvious choice. However, the prevailing wisdom I've come by seems to be that the NX or NX9 has many advantages, but motion is one area where it is at a disadvantage. That's why I went the DLP direction in the first place. But the prevailing wisdom was also that if I was happy with the motion on the IN83, that I would be even happier with the motion on the DLP - LED projector I bought, and it's turned out the opposite so far, so here I am. Hopefully it is just an issue with my particular unit, something that can be fixed, but I can't fix it so far and I can't even find anything plausible that could be wrong with it. The unit has less than 300 hours on it total so it should be in good condition.

In truth I was interested to hear comps between the NX7 and 9, and high end DLP projectors, even before I received my DLP - LED projector and had this issue, so I asked the one user I heard about who has both an NX7 and a DLP - LED projector from the same line as mine, and he told me to ask here. I think motion is the main question for me, but would be happy to hear any comparisons or impressions. Please post here or PM me as appropriate.

 

[Mike Garrett]

I don't own an NX7 or NX9 but was wondering if any owners of the NX7 or NX9 have also owned a high end 1080p DLP projector in the past, and if you notice any difference in specifically the motion handling between DLP and the NX7 or NX9?

I ask because the motion of LCD, LED, and OLED TVs has bothered my eyes in the past, whereas my DLP projector with a color wheel, an Infocus IN83, does not. And I was told that lcos projectors handle motion like OLEDs and LCDs do, whereas with DLP, I was told I could even get an improvement on my color wheel DLP projector's motion handling if I bought either a 3 chip DLP, or a DLP that uses red, green, and blue LEDs for lightsource and color instead of a color wheel and a bulb.

So I bought a DLP - LED projector, but I am having a similar issue with its motion as I did on OLED and LCD and LED TVs, both motion "smearing" as well as object trails in really fast movements, and artifacts when objects move different directions on the screen at the same time, so now I don't know what to think. If it somehow turns out that the NX7 or NX9 have better motion, then it would make it the obvious choice. However, the prevailing wisdom I've come by seems to be that the NX or NX9 has many advantages, but motion is one area where it is at a disadvantage. That's why I went the DLP direction in the first place. But the prevailing wisdom was also that if I was happy with the motion on the IN83, that I would be even happier with the motion on the DLP - LED projector I bought, and it's turned out the opposite so far, so here I am. Hopefully it is just an issue with my particular unit, something that can be fixed, but I can't fix it so far and I can't even find anything plausible that could be wrong with it. The unit has less than 300 hours on it total so it should be in good condition.

In truth I was interested to hear comps between the NX7 and 9, and high end DLP projectors, even before I received my DLP - LED projector and had this issue, so I asked the one user I heard about who has both an NX7 and a DLP - LED projector from the same line as mine, and he told me to ask here. I think motion is the main question for me, but would be happy to hear any comparisons or impressions. Please post here or PM me as appropriate.

I currently own RS3000. Have owned Planar and a couple Marantz DLP's. I do not have a problem with motion, but that does not mean that you will not have a problem with motion. Because I do not have a problem with the motion of an OLED either.

 

[CyberPaul]

Yes you’re right. I had the same issue as I wanted to have a different HDR10 frame adapt set up for ATV (brighter) than for UHD. Can I ask why you want a different picture mode for 2.4 HDR10 vs. other aspect ratios? I think most others, including myself, are just using the Frame Adapt mode for all aspect ratios on HDR10.

As said multiple times in this thread, you don't calibrate picture mode, you calibrate the "magical" triad: lamp power, color filter, aperture. As long as you have calibrated all the combinations you are going to use, you can change one of the components of the triad when in frame adapt HDR and you should be ok. What you cannot do is to associate one picture mode to one installation mode so if you want to decrease aperture for getting more contrast with 16:9, you are forced to close the iris manually on the only picture mode you can use (Frame Adapt HDR) AND you need to make sure to have calibrated THAT specific aperture (combined with the other 2 parameters).

 

[Erod]

I don't own an NX7 or NX9 but was wondering if any owners of the NX7 or NX9 have also owned a high end 1080p DLP projector in the past, and if you notice any difference in specifically the motion handling between DLP and the NX7 or NX9?

I ask because the motion of LCD, LED, and OLED TVs has bothered my eyes in the past, whereas my DLP projector with a color wheel, an Infocus IN83, does not. And I was told that lcos projectors handle motion like OLEDs and LCDs do, whereas with DLP, I was told I could even get an improvement on my color wheel DLP projector's motion handling if I bought either a 3 chip DLP, or a DLP that uses red, green, and blue LEDs for lightsource and color instead of a color wheel and a bulb.

So I bought a DLP - LED projector, but I am having a similar issue with its motion as I did on OLED and LCD and LED TVs, both motion "smearing" as well as object trails in really fast movements, and artifacts when objects move different directions on the screen at the same time, so now I don't know what to think. If it somehow turns out that the NX7 or NX9 have better motion, then it would make it the obvious choice. However, the prevailing wisdom I've come by seems to be that the NX or NX9 has many advantages, but motion is one area where it is at a disadvantage. That's why I went the DLP direction in the first place. But the prevailing wisdom was also that if I was happy with the motion on the IN83, that I would be even happier with the motion on the DLP - LED projector I bought, and it's turned out the opposite so far, so here I am. Hopefully it is just an issue with my particular unit, something that can be fixed, but I can't fix it so far and I can't even find anything plausible that could be wrong with it. The unit has less than 300 hours on it total so it should be in good condition.

In truth I was interested to hear comps between the NX7 and 9, and high end DLP projectors, even before I received my DLP - LED projector and had this issue, so I asked the one user I heard about who has both an NX7 and a DLP - LED projector from the same line as mine, and he told me to ask here. I think motion is the main question for me, but would be happy to hear any comparisons or impressions. Please post here or PM me as appropriate.

The low CMD setting is very subtle and doesn't create soap opera effect, but it does help with panning and motion quite a bit.

 

[SirMaster]

The low CMD setting is very subtle and doesn't create soap opera effect, but it does help with panning and motion quite a bit.

I don't think you can say this generically.

On my NX5 CMD low produces an extremely noticeable SOE that I cannot even come close to tolerating.

 

[Erod]

I don't think you can say this generically.

On my NX5 CMD low produces an extremely noticeable SOE that I cannot even come close to tolerating.

Perhaps it's different depending on the model.

On my RS3000, the SOE is barely noticeable, but the panning is much better in reducing blur.

I detest SOE, so it was a nice surprise.