[Dominic Chan]

Question for you guys: I picked up a JVC RS600 back in early 2017 (B-stock from a dealer), and have used it in mostly THX mode and the "moderately bright" mode that was defined on Projector Central's review back when. I just hit 3400 hours and got the lamp replacement activated. Isn't that a tad early for a lower power use? I have power set to low in both modes and have a 100" screen.

It's probably time to get a replacement lamp online, but how much life will I still have, in general terms, before dimming to unwatchable levels?

I know this is a general question, but with 2-3 hours a day viewing lately, I'm hoping I can get another week or so out of this before I replace the lamp.

Also, I bought a Vertex (never installed) about a year ago, but this might be a good time to get it set up and look at the SDR BT2020 macro.

What you get at 3400 hours is preset “gentle reminder”. The lamp is rated for 4500 hours; YMMV, but there shouldn’t be any problems using it for another week or two.

 

[nathan_h]

True and I would not bother with sdr2020 since to get that color space, @sdrucker, you typically use the built in color filter, which reduces light output, which is what you are trying to avoid, so you can use your lamp longer....

 

[Dominic Chan]

True and I would not bother with sdr2020 since to get that color space, @sdrucker, you typically use the built in color filter, which reduces light output, which is what you are trying to avoid, so you can use your lamp longer....

SDR2020 allows the ST2084 EOTF and tone-mapping to be implemented by external devices which can potentially do a better job; many users find that they can use low lamp for HDR viewing.
With either SDR2020 or HDR2020, whether to engage the filter for wider gamut, or disengage it for extra brightness, is an independent decision.

 

[nathan_h]

Color me confused (pun intended). I'm not disagreeing, just sharing my ignorance:

I thought 2084 = HDR EOTF. So by using SDR2020, you are by definition not using the HDR EOTF but an SDR EOTF. And if you are feeding the projector an SDR EOTF, then the projector does not need to do any HDR->SDR tone mapping.

I also am not sure why one would use 2020 color and NOT engage the color filter. Isn't most of the rec2020 color that exceeds rec709 only accessible on the JVC via the color filter? In other words, the native gamut without the color filter in place is only a tiny bit larger than 709, so why not just feed it 709?

 

[Dominic Chan]

Color me confused (pun intended). I'm not disagreeing, just sharing my ignorance:

I thought 2084 = HDR EOTF. So by using SDR2020, you are by definition not using the HDR EOTF but an SDR EOTF. And if you are feeding the projector an SDR EOTF, then the projector does not need to do any HDR->SDR tone mapping.

Correct, but if the source material (e.g. UHD disc) is “encoded” in ST.2084 then someone has to “decode” it for it to look right. In most cases that is done by the display device (projector or TV), but it can also be done by the player (e.g. Panasonic UB820 or madVR), in which case the display would use an SDR EOTF (gamma 2.2 or 2.4).

I also am not sure why one would use 2020 color and NOT engage the color filter. Isn't most of the rec2020 color that exceeds rec709 only accessible on the JVC via the color filter? In other words, the native gamut without the color filter in place is only a tiny bit larger than 709, so why not just feed it 709?

Starting with the RS520 JVC has always provided two versions of the BT.2020 colour profile - without the filter for the RS4x0 and NX5, and both versions (with and without filter) on the higher models. Even without the filter the gamut is significantly wider than Rec 709 - just ask the happy RS420 or NX5 owners. Many RS520 and NX7 owners even prefer to use the no-filter profile, as they find the gain in brightness is noticeable, whereas the gain in gamut is negligible to subtle.

 

[nathan_h]

So in this case, even with the OP who has a RS600, if they have a profile that is SDR2020 they are likely to get better color even without the filter in place.

Darn now I wish there was a way to get SDR2020 out of my ATV4K so I could run it that way on my RS500.

 

[187crew003]

How do you run 2020 without the filter on the rs600??

 

[nathan_h]

I'll bet you have to upload a new profile to the unit.

 

[Dominic Chan]

I'll bet you have to upload a new profile to the unit.

Yes, just load Manni’s BT.2020NF profile, or create it yourself using Autocal.

 

[187crew003]

Yes, just load Manni’s BT.2020NF profile, or create it yourself using Autocal.

Is there a known how much light you gain vs how much color you lose?

 

[sdrucker]

True and I would not bother with sdr2020 since to get that color space, @sdrucker, you typically use the built in color filter, which reduces light output, which is what you are trying to avoid, so you can use your lamp longer....

Fair enough. I wasn't going to do anything with addressing the SDR2020 and related issues until I put in the new lamp and give it 100 hours or so anyway.

 

[MadMyers]

I posted something similar in an HDFury thread, but thought that since some aren't following that thread, I'd highlight it here too.

I've created a solution that I believe optimizes the JVC + HDFury macro functionality. If you use your JVC with HDFury macro functionality, this might be of interest.

Apex--- JVC RS500/600 HDFury HDR Macro Optimization

Apex sits between the HDFury device and the JVC projector and intelligently works with the JVC, and its nuances, to ensure profile switching is optimized. These profile changes now take only as long as needed. This removes the on-size fits all “20 second” delay.

Additionally, there is no longer a need to connect an RS232 cable to your JVC. While Apex receives data from an HDFury device via RS232, Apex communicates with your JVC using IP.

I've been having a little difficulty explaining Apex using words so I created a lo-fi video showing the HDR mode switching with Apex. This video shows how Apex optimizes the HDR switching when using a Shield and Kodi.

Hope this helps everyone visualize the behavior.

 

[James Han]

There is a

https://www.hdfury.com/docs/HDfuryVertex.pdf

Page 40 of the user manual shows the Macros tab of the Windows GUI.

On the Macro Auto tab...

Mark the JVC Macro... Enable check box.
Leave the HDR10 Mode drop down selection to Automatic.
Leave Sync Time value at the default 20 seconds or you can lower it to 18 without causing issues.
Choose your JVC picture mode in the drop down list for each Content type that you want to auto-select. Leave at Do Nothing if your players never send a listed content type.
When done, click Send All Changes.

CJ, is there a document you could point me to that provides a thumbnail explanation of the benefit(s) and use of an HDFury device (with, in my case the RS500)? I'm trying to wrap my head around what precisely this does, and how difficult it is to implement. IOW, is the benefit so noticeably obvious? Does it require going into the JVC "Settings" each time content gets played and changing things around to suit different content (e.g., Netflix, Disney+, Amazon Prime, BluRay (via either an Oppo 203 or Pan 820), UHD 4K), does it require going into the Oppo or Panny "Settings" every time I'd want to use disk content, or is it something that one simply sets up and forgets and doesn't have to manage thereafter regardless of the source material/playback device/projector?

I've had my PJ calibrated twice so far (Greg @ Lion). Does use of the Fury mean that I'd be tossing what Greg calibrated?

 

[nathan_h]

Did Greg create a custom hdr gamma?

If not then it’s less likely to be useful.

 

[James Han]

Did Greg create a custom hdr gamma?

If not then it’s less likely to be useful.

Yes he did create a custom HDR gamma.

 

[nathan_h]

Well then, a Fury device can do a few things for you:

1. It can prevent the projector from using Gamma D for HDR content, allowing you to use your Custom Gamma instead.
2. It can control the projector so that when an HDR signal is detected, the Fury will switch the projector into your Custom Gamma mode (instead of you having to switch from Gamma D to your custom gamma each time).
3. It can tell the source device to us LLDV (DV that is decoded in the player) to send a tone mapped, optimized HDR signal that targets a device with your peak output capabilities -- example, if your custom gamma curve is optimized for 1000 nit sources, the Fury can tell DV devices to pre-map DV content to HDR10 using DV metadata).

 

[James Han]

Well then, a Fury device can do a few things for you:

1. It can prevent the projector from using Gamma D for HDR content, allowing you to use your Custom Gamma instead.
2. It can control the projector so that when an HDR signal is detected, the Fury will switch the projector into your Custom Gamma mode (instead of you having to switch from Gamma D to your custom gamma each time).
3. It can tell the source device to us LLDV (DV that is decoded in the player) to send a tone mapped, optimized HDR signal that targets a device with your peak output capabilities -- example, if your custom gamma curve is optimized for 1000 nit sources, the Fury can tell DV devices to pre-map DV content to HDR10 using DV metadata).

1. It's interesting that you say that (". . . Gamma D"), because that's exactly what happens -- the projector defaults to Gamma D and at that setting, it's simply too dark to enjoy.

So, how do I get a Custom Gamma, or is it "custom" only to the extent that I change around settings that suit my tastes?

2. I was doing some reading about nits and the 500u capability. Given its nits limitation, does the Fury device make THAT much of a noticeable difference? I'm very curious about it and would love to try it but if the image quality is only slightly "improved" and only improved on a scene-by-scene or derived content basis then I wonder if it's worth my time to buy and install.

My only gripe (if I can use that term, which might convey a stronger sentiment that I feel/intend) with the current HDR Gamma is that it tends to really darken 4k content and it doesn't always render that "pop" (IOW, it does for some content, but not for other). If the Fury can "bump things up" a notch then I think it'd be worth pursuing.

 

[nathan_h]

The Fury will NOT bump things up on it's own. It will let you use your custom gamma more easily.

You can see the impact WITHOUT the Fury.

When you feed an HDR signal to the projector, it does into GAMMA D. Manually choose the OTHER gamma, the CUSTOM gamma that your calibrator created for HDR. I don't know what that one will be named. My calibrator put that custom gamma in the CUSTOM 1 slot (or maybe it's called IMPORTED, I forget).

How does that look? If you like that (and if it is done well it should look a lot better) THEN you can consider the Fury, which can bypass GAMMA D and select that CUSTOM gamma for you, when it detects HDR content being fed into the projector.

 

[James Han]

Ok, so make sure I get this correct. If I didn't have the 500u calibrated with a custom gamma for HDR (which the calibrator labeled "HDR") then the Fury wouldn't offer any benefits visually. Am I understanding that properly?

 

[nathan_h]

I can't speak to what the calibrator would have called your custom HDR gamma. Could have a name like "CUSTOM 1" or "imported" or something similarly opaque.

But if they did not create a custom gamma for HDR, then the Vertext is not going to make HDR look better. I would set your source device to SDR4K and enjoy things that way. Frankly, I often watch UHD content that way since it looks GREAT like that, too.