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Seems to confirm what I suspected, which is that they have no SDR tone mapping implemented for HDR to SDR BT2020 (yet)... At least it sounds like they are working on it, otherwise it doesn't really make sense to extend the return window. What they call the red push is simply what happens when you display rec-709 content in BT2020. It's not only red, it's all the colors, red is just the most visible when oversaturated because it's obvious with skin tones. Green is pushed too. And blue.


I hope for owners that I'm wrong, but I'd be surprised if they come up with a fix in weeks, unless they have no issue more important to fix first (i.e. issues which are a problem for every user, not just projector owners or owners of an SDR WCG display).
What worries me is that they must have had a basic lack of understanding as to what the feature they announced was actually supposed to do.

As you said earlier, I hope they have people who can do the math and achieve the required result.....
 
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I didn't receive quite as positive a response......

Aiden,

We have no time estimate as to when we will have the HDR Strip function working reliably. It is an experimental features that we will continue to improve through firmware, but we would guess that it will be months before this feature is fully functional with no red-shift.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.
162 Constitution Dr.
Menlo Park, CA 94025
[email protected].com
Tel: 650-961-1118
Fax: 650-961-1119

:eek: :eek: :eek:

 

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Seems to confirm what I suspected, which is that they have no SDR tone mapping implemented for HDR to SDR BT2020 (yet)... At least it sounds like they are working on it, otherwise it doesn't really make sense to extend the return window. What they call the red push is simply what happens when you display rec-709 content in BT2020. It's not only red, it's all the colors, red is just the most visible when oversaturated because it's obvious with skin tones. Green is pushed too. And blue.


I hope for owners that I'm wrong, but I'd be surprised if they come up with a fix in weeks, unless they have no issue more important to fix first (i.e. issues which are a problem for every user, not just projector owners or owners of an SDR WCG display).
Why are the devices in the chain showing Rec.2020 then (is it just a setting in the metadata as to what container is being sent but with they are really just sending Rec.709 inside)?
 

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Not even if you offered a few bottles of Jameson?

:p
I could try!

Though wih Christmas coming, the good stuff will be in demand!
 

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Why are the devices in the chain showing Rec.2020 then (is it just a setting in the metadata as to what container is being sent but with they are really just sending Rec.709 inside)?
I have no idea, but yes, it's most likely that they advertise BT2020 but are still sending Rec709.

The problem with this is that it's not simple math to convert HDR to SDR BT2020. Even for those who know their stuff like Madshi or Lumagen, it takes quite a bit of brain power to do it well. Panasonic did a surprisingly good job (but they clearly had thought about it, hence the DRC slider), Samsung botched it and it looks like Oppo has failed too.

I have no insider info and am only speculating based on user reports, the way Oppo has labelled the feature, the absence of any control to fine-tune the conversion (Lumagen, MadVR, Panasonic all included *some* level of control) and their communication from the beginning about this feature. I could be wrong, and I hope I am for non-panny owners. :)

I wouldn't trade my UB900 anyway as I need the Netflix/Amazon streaming feature, but it's certainly easier to stay with a Panny than it would be if I had bought the Sammy, so I feel for you guys. :(
 

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Glad I still have my Panny, I guess.

Then again, by the time I actually get to setting up for UHD we'll probably all have laser projectors and 1,000,000:1 contrast. :)
 

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I have no idea, but yes, it's most likely that they advertise BT2020 but are still sending Rec709.

The problem with this is that it's not simple math to convert HDR to SDR BT2020. Even for those who know their stuff like Madshi or Lumagen, it takes quite a bit of brain power to do it well. Panasonic did a surprisingly good job (but they clearly had thought about it, hence the DRC slider), Samsung botched it and it looks like Oppo has failed too.

I have no insider info and am only speculating based on user reports, the way Oppo has labelled the feature, the absence of any control to fine-tune the conversion (Lumagen, MadVR, Panasonic all included *some* level of control) and their communication from the beginning about this feature. I could be wrong, and I hope I am for non-panny owners. :)

I wouldn't trade my UB900 anyway as I need the Netflix/Amazon streaming feature, but it's certainly easier to stay with a Panny than it would be if I had bought the Sammy, so I feel for you guys. :(
Safe to say, trading in my Panasonic for an Oppo was the worst AV decision I've made in a while........

I should have used to cost of upgrade to start a Lumagen fund. Bugger!
 

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Ok. Going to see about getting my old Panasonic back and returning the Oppo when it arrives.

If they ever get the Stripping feature sorted, I'll come back to it.
 
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Ok. Going to see about getting my old Panasonic back and returning the Oppo when it arrives.

If they ever get the Stripping feature sorted, I'll come back to it.
But you are still gonna need a HDFury though. Hopefully you can pick up a used one in the classified since a lot of folks sold off their integrals in anticipation of the Oppo.
 

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I have no idea, but yes, it's most likely that they advertise BT2020 but are still sending Rec709.

The problem with this is that it's not simple math to convert HDR to SDR BT2020. Even for those who know their stuff like Madshi or Lumagen, it takes quite a bit of brain power to do it well. Panasonic did a surprisingly good job (but they clearly had thought about it, hence the DRC slider), Samsung botched it and it looks like Oppo has failed too.

I have no insider info and am only speculating based on user reports, the way Oppo has labelled the feature, the absence of any control to fine-tune the conversion (Lumagen, MadVR, Panasonic all included *some* level of control) and their communication from the beginning about this feature. I could be wrong, and I hope I am for non-panny owners. :)

I wouldn't trade my UB900 anyway as I need the Netflix/Amazon streaming feature, but it's certainly easier to stay with a Panny than it would be if I had bought the Sammy, so I feel for you guys. :(
Thx Manni.

So it's not like I can just output some SDR2020 patterns and whip out my i1D3 to fix/touchup my WB or use the JVC internal CMS fix the "red push" imbalance then?

OH... and does the Panny output 4K/24 for streaming (or is it stuck on 60p like the Roku?)?
 

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But you are still gonna need a HDFury though. Hopefully you can pick up a used one in the classified since a lot of folks sold off their integrals in anticipation of the Oppo.
I hadn't one and sold it too......

Maybe a Lumagen, while. Ore expensive may be worth the investment. Good things being spoken about in the Video Processor forum, maybe the Pro can pretty much replicate what Dolby Vision will be able to do on our projectors.
 

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Here is the response I just received regarding the red push going from HDR to SDR with strip metadata:


Mike,

The UHD Strip is a work in progress and will have red shift at the moment. This will be improved in a future firmware release.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.
162 Constitution Dr.
Menlo Park, CA 94025
[email protected]
Tel: 650-961-1118
Fax: 650-961-1119
 

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Thx Manni.

So it's not like I can just output some SDR2020 patterns and whip out my i1D3 to fix/touchup my WB or use the JVC internal CMS fix the "red push" imbalance then?

OH... and does the Panny output 4K/24 for streaming (or is it stuck on 60p like the Roku?)?
No you can't calibrate because the Oppo is sending a reduced gamut (rec-709). You can only reduce saturation, not expand. You could do it if the Oppo was sending BT2020 instead of rec-709, but not if the Oppo is sending rec-709 instead of BT2020. There is only a red push because you're expecting BT2020 content, so I assume you have selected a BT2020 user preset.

The only thing you can do is select a rec-709 user preset instead of your BT2020 user preset (say the preset you use for blurays or HDTV), it should look fine because it IS rec-709 that the Oppo is sending. But then why not play a bluray instead? I guess it would be worth it if that's the only way to get Atmos/DTS:X.

Last time I checked the Panny was stuck in 60p for streaming, but that might have been fixed with a f/w update. I really don't care because I never stream any movie, it's only TV shows.
 

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Ok. Going to see about getting my old Panasonic back and returning the Oppo when it arrives.

If they ever get the Stripping feature sorted, I'll come back to it.

My OPPO is going back. As Manni said, it doesn't look good since they don't even to know what they are talking about when it comes to HDR---->SDR BT.2020...:confused:
 

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After being initially told that I would have a 60 day return window, I just received an updated email that is now extending it to 90 days....

That is great and much appreciated, but I have a feeling they have some work ahead of them and the fix is going to take longer than they initially thought..
 
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