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Thank you for the quick feedback!

That seems to be the conclusion I was coming too also. Does the Oppo currently work by itself to give a 4K SDR BT2020 image? If so that seems to be the best option for me currently.

Thank you for your insight/input!
No, the Oppo is currently buggy and is not functioning correctly as it was advertised, they plan to fix that in a later firmware update, but it could be months, who knows. And we don't know if they have done the tone mapping at all, or if they have, they have done it correctly.

The Panasonic UB900 right now is the one to have along with an HD Fury if you need this, otherwise grab the Oppo and use HDR until they fix it.

SDR Mode on the Oppo currently outputs Rec709, so you get basically no extra colour, only the minute resolution increase the disc may have if its an actual 4K Master.
 

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Thank you for the quick feedback!

That seems to be the conclusion I was coming too also. Does the Oppo currently work by itself to give a 4K SDR BT2020 image? If so that seems to be the best option for me currently.

Thank you for your insight/input!
On the Oppo, my understanding is "yes" but the mapping from HDR to SDR is not perfected yet (not as good as the Panny/Fury combo from what I read). Oppo is a great company and an industry standard so I am sure they will get it right over the next few weeks. I know this is a highly anticipated upgrade everyone wants on this machine.
 

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Yes it was. :D
we shouldnt be so hard on our friend the piomaniac :D

yes did get a bit carried way with the screenies but 624 pages and 18,000 posts ... whats the odd screen shot between friends ...along with shots of subwoofers and meme's and what not... breaks things up a little...keeps the light hearted sense in an owners thread.

and we have a lot to be happy about... this jvc is still kicking butt ! :D
 

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No, the Oppo is currently buggy and is not functioning correctly as it was advertised, they plan to fix that in a later firmware update, but it could be months, who knows. And we don't know if they have done the tone mapping at all, or if they have, they have done it correctly.

The Panasonic UB900 right now is the one to have along with an HD Fury if you need this, otherwise grab the Oppo and use HDR until they fix it.

SDR Mode on the Oppo currently outputs Rec709, so you get basically no extra colour, only the minute resolution increase the disc may have if its an actual 4K Master.
yes dont buy it if chasing HDR stripping as it simply doesnt work. dont be surprised if oppo comes back with a fix pretty quick though...ive been impressed with their speed of response on one of the issues I brought up with them. already have an update to fix...jsut want to combine with a few other things theyre working to fix before pushing the firmware out :)

it is working a treat for HDR with uhd and with blu-ray as well though I can attest.

my sammy uhd sold yesterday as well. as much maligned a unit it is online... i never had one issue with it. flawless and capable of some lovely output (i only used HDR for uhd)
 

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I would trust what Manni is suggesting but also keep in mind the most important thing is what you think when you compare your fav 4K movie between SDR & HDR (only you know your gear and how it performs between the two). ;)
Well, that's the thing. It's hard for me to notice much if any of a difference. On some movies the difference is slight and I have to A/B them to tell the difference. There were a few scenes in Lucy where the HDR was more dynamic. But some movies look worse in HDR and its a real pain knowing in advance whether I want to watch it one way or the other. I think that's why many people have given up and just watched everything in SDR+WCG.

So guys - what's it going to take to get $10k and under projectors to the point of being able to effective HDR for those of us with large screens? Do you think this will help usher in more advances in brightness in these mid-range models? I suppose they are going to be limited by the bulb. Has their been any feedback about how well HDR works on the $40k JVC laser? That's out of the question for me, but I'm wondering if that type of lumens makes HDR effective on larger screens (so we know we have something to look forward to when the technology gets cheaper).
 

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Well, that's the thing. It's hard for me to notice much if any of a difference. On some movies the difference is slight and I have to A/B them to tell the difference. There were a few scenes in Lucy where the HDR was more dynamic. But some movies look worse in HDR and its a real pain knowing in advance whether I want to watch it one way or the other. I think that's why many people have given up and just watched everything in SDR+WCG.

So guys - what's it going to take to get $10k and under projectors to the point of being able to effective HDR for those of us with large screens? Do you think this will help usher in more advances in brightness in these mid-range models? I suppose they are going to be limited by the bulb. Has their been any feedback about how well HDR works on the $40k JVC laser? That's out of the question for me, but I'm wondering if that type of lumens makes HDR effective on larger screens (so we know we have something to look forward to when the technology gets cheaper).
large screens thats the kicker isnt it. i'm running a screen slightly larger than manni ...and been pretty happy with HDR. no thoughts of SDR and not found some movies to detriment with HDR.

how is HDR going to be effective on larger screens though ? need massive outputs ? prob have to wait till lasers are effective and affordable in this price range ?
 

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large screens thats the kicker isnt it. i'm running a screen slightly larger than manni ...and been pretty happy with HDR. no thoughts of SDR and not found some movies to detriment with HDR.

how is HDR going to be effective on larger screens though ? need massive outputs ? prob have to wait till lasers are effective and affordable in this price range ?
What screen size r u running?
 

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Did you get an incredible price on the X750R?
PM Sent. I believe I got a great deal on it.

Unfortunately, the OPPO is plagued with issues currently, and it doesn't strip HDR and retain BT2020 as the Panasonic/Fury combo does. It will probably be able to do so at some point (probably in a few months), but in its current state, it's not the best option right now.
I'll be in a waiting pattern for this. I have blown my budget but at this point I really do want the best picture I can get. JVC won't be here until 1/13. Gives me some time :)

No, the Oppo is currently buggy and is not functioning correctly as it was advertised, they plan to fix that in a later firmware update, but it could be months, who knows. And we don't know if they have done the tone mapping at all, or if they have, they have done it correctly.

The Panasonic UB900 right now is the one to have along with an HD Fury if you need this, otherwise grab the Oppo and use HDR until they fix it.

SDR Mode on the Oppo currently outputs Rec709, so you get basically no extra colour, only the minute resolution increase the disc may have if its an actual 4K Master.
I'll see what the outlook looks like in a couple weeks. I haven't seen BT2020 so I wonder if I can go the route of "ignorance is bliss" and get my surprise when Oppo does their FW fix.

On the Oppo, my understanding is "yes" but the mapping from HDR to SDR is not perfected yet (not as good as the Panny/Fury combo from what I read). Oppo is a great company and an industry standard so I am sure they will get it right over the next few weeks. I know this is a highly anticipated upgrade everyone wants on this machine.
I'm hoping this is the case. That time frame would be perfect!
 

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Well, that's the thing. It's hard for me to notice much if any of a difference. On some movies the difference is slight and I have to A/B them to tell the difference. There were a few scenes in Lucy where the HDR was more dynamic. But some movies look worse in HDR and its a real pain knowing in advance whether I want to watch it one way or the other. I think that's why many people have given up and just watched everything in SDR+WCG.

So guys - what's it going to take to get $10k and under projectors to the point of being able to effective HDR for those of us with large screens? Do you think this will help usher in more advances in brightness in these mid-range models? I suppose they are going to be limited by the bulb. Has their been any feedback about how well HDR works on the $40k JVC laser? That's out of the question for me, but I'm wondering if that type of lumens makes HDR effective on larger screens (so we know we have something to look forward to when the technology gets cheaper).
To add to this line of thought:

Santa was very attentive this year and my 4K movie collection has grown to over 50 titles, with more on the way. As a result, I have been immersed in testing HDR vs SDR BT2020 over the past three days. Switching among the recommended settings from Manni, Javs and my own tweaking with Masciola's HDR test patterns, I have come full circle again. My conclusion is that there are precious few titles where watching in HDR could be considered on par with its SDR BT2020 counterpart.

Only the Shallows (in full) and some parts of Sully and X-Men Apocalypse fall into this category. If it's not the black floor, it's the skin tones. If not the skin tone, it's the black crush. Either way, there are far less compromises in SDR BT2020 when all the pros and cons are tallied. Plus it's essentially a set it and forget it thing, whereas with HDR the constant fiddling per title never ends.

Outside of a professional Calibration, to conduct a proper comparison one would need to at least run a JVC autocal to get gamma in line (no pun intended), plus perform some additional tweaking for color with a second, more accurate meter using additional calibration software.

I have settled on the following for watching SDR BT2020 with the Panny/Fury combo:

In the Panny; Contrast = -2, Brightness = +1, DRC slider = -1
Sharpness in Panny: High Frequency = +3, Med Frequency = +1, Edge Correction = +1 (thanks, Javs)

In the JVC; Contrast = -1, Brightness = 0
Gamma = Normal (don't know what it is but "Normal" gamma just seems to work best in this case).
Iris = 0 or - 5 (set according to taste and environment).
DI = Auto 2
Low Lamp

With these settings I am clipping white around 1200 Nits and black at bar 68 using Masciola's test patterns (standing right next to the screen). The results are, in my opinion, superior to HDR in every aspect other than the occasional highlights----and even in those areas, not too far off at all.

*Manni has correctly pointed out that -6 on the DRC slider was necessary to avoid clipping too much info, however, for my screen size (130 inch diagonal, 2.35 AT screen, rated at 1 gain but definitely less than that), the image was just too dark at that setting. For some reason though, I am not clipping info at -1 and the test patterns show I am
clipping white at 1200 nits anyway.

With regard to color saturation, switching back and forth between HDR and SDR proved only subtle at best and indistinguishable most of the time.

Unless and until an affordable version of the lumagen pro becomes available, which offers shaping LUTs, I will stick to SDR BT2020 for the time being.
 

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I have settled on the following for watching SDR BT2020 with the Panny/Fury combo:

In the Panny; Contrast = -2, Brightness = +1, DRC slider = -1
Sharpness in Panny: High Frequency = +3, Med Frequency = +1, Edge Correction = +1 (thanks, Javs)

In the JVC; Contrast = -1, Brightness = 0
Gamma = Normal (don't know what it is but "Normal" gamma just seems to work best in this case).
Iris = 0 or - 5 (set according to taste and environment).
DI = Auto 2

With these settings I am clipping white around 1200 Nits and black at bar 68 using Masciola's test patterns (standing right next to the screen). The results are, in my opinion, superior to HDR in every aspect other than the occasional highlights----and even in those areas, not too far off at all.

*Manni has correctly pointed out that -6 on the DRC slider was necessary to avoid clipping too much info, however, for my screen size (130 inch 2.35 AT screen, rated at 1 gain but definitely less than that), the image was just too dark at that setting. For some reason though, I am not clipping info at -1 and the test patterns show I am
clipping white at 1200 nits anyway.
Yeah so in regards to Manni's thoughts re the DRC slider and -6, IIRC he does not touch the contrast slider in the panny or the JVC and prefers to only use the DRC slider, I also think he has now changed that preference to somewhere near -3 on the DRC.

Its because you and I are using a combination of JVC and Panny negative contrast numbers for SDR - I use Panny Contrast -3 for SDR and I think I leave the JVC Contrast on Zero, with DRC -1 in the Panny, that's why you and I are clipping 1200 nits. All sliders at zero the clipping point appears to me to be closer to 750 nits or so... definitely too much clipping.
 

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To add to this line of thought:

Santa was very attentive this year and my 4K movie collection has grown to over 50 titles, with more on the way. As a result, I have been immersed in testing HDR vs SDR BT2020 over the past three days. Switching among the recommended settings from Manni, Javs and my own tweaking with Masciola's HDR test patterns, I have come full circle again. My conclusion is that there are precious few titles where watching in HDR could be considered on par with its SDR BT2020 counterpart.

Only the Shallows (in full) and some parts of Sully and X-Men Apocalypse fall into this category. If it's not the black floor, it's the skin tones. If not the skin tone, it's the black crush. Either way, there are far less compromises in SDR BT2020 when all the pros and cons are tallied. Plus it's essentially a set it and forget it thing, whereas with HDR the constant fiddling per title never ends.

Outside of a professional Calibration, to conduct a proper comparison one would need to at least run a JVC autocal to get gamma in line (no pun intended), plus perform some additional tweaking for color with a second, more accurate meter using additional calibration software.

I have settled on the following for watching SDR BT2020 with the Panny/Fury combo:

In the Panny; Contrast = -2, Brightness = +1, DRC slider = -1
Sharpness in Panny: High Frequency = +3, Med Frequency = +1, Edge Correction = +1 (thanks, Javs)

In the JVC; Contrast = -1, Brightness = 0
Gamma = Normal (don't know what it is but "Normal" gamma just seems to work best in this case).
Iris = 0 or - 5 (set according to taste and environment).
DI = Auto 2

With these settings I am clipping white around 1200 Nits and black at bar 68 using Masciola's test patterns (standing right next to the screen). The results are, in my opinion, superior to HDR in every aspect other than the occasional highlights----and even in those areas, not too far off at all.

*Manni has correctly pointed out that -6 on the DRC slider was necessary to avoid clipping too much info, however, for my screen size (130 inch diagonal, 2.35 AT screen, rated at 1 gain but definitely less than that), the image was just too dark at that setting. For some reason though, I am not clipping info at -1 and the test patterns show I am
clipping white at 1200 nits anyway.

With regard to color saturation, switching back and forth between HDR and SDR proved only subtle at best and indistinguishable most of the time.

Unless and until an affordable version of the lumagen pro becomes available, which offers shaping LUTs, I will stick to SDR BT2020 for the time being.
I didn't see you mention if you're running low or high on your lamp. :)
 

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So I have been having the same dilema with HDR films being way to dark. I am using the the Samsung 8500 and have the RS500. The Samsung is going through a Denon 7200w.

I was about to order an HD Fury, but I have been seeing it being referenced with the Panny. Will it also do the job of stripping the HDR from the Samsung? I would prefer not to have to replace the Samsung.

George
 

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Well, that's the thing. It's hard for me to notice much if any of a difference. On some movies the difference is slight and I have to A/B them to tell the difference. There were a few scenes in Lucy where the HDR was more dynamic. But some movies look worse in HDR and its a real pain knowing in advance whether I want to watch it one way or the other. I think that's why many people have given up and just watched everything in SDR+WCG.

So guys - what's it going to take to get $10k and under projectors to the point of being able to effective HDR for those of us with large screens? Do you think this will help usher in more advances in brightness in these mid-range models? I suppose they are going to be limited by the bulb. Has their been any feedback about how well HDR works on the $40k JVC laser? That's out of the question for me, but I'm wondering if that type of lumens makes HDR effective on larger screens (so we know we have something to look forward to when the technology gets cheaper).

The other benefit to consider Rick (for the majority), is running the machine on low lamp vs. high all the time (although I could also make an argument which I'm testing tonight is that even in SDR2020 one should run the lamp on High as well. ;)
 

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Yeah so in regards to Manni's thoughts re the DRC slider and -6, IIRC he does not touch the contrast slider in the panny or the JVC and prefers to only use the DRC slider, I also think he has now changed that preference to somewhere near -3 on the DRC.

Its because you and I are using a combination of JVC and Panny negative contrast numbers for SDR - I use Panny Contrast -3 for SDR and I think I leave the JVC Contrast on Zero, with DRC -1 in the Panny, that's why you and I are clipping 1200 nits. All sliders at zero the clipping point appears to me to be closer to 750 nits or so... definitely too much clipping.
It's ironic you mentioned the clipping point would be around 750 nits with all sliders at zero, cause I just took those very same measurements a few minutes ago and you are absolutely correct---750 nits---definitely too much clipping. I suppose as long as we end up in the same place (1200 nits), whether it is a combination of JVC and Panny settings, is what matters. However, I wanted to make sure that I wasn't clipping too low in the Panny before the signal was sent to the JVC, and I can confirm that it wasn't at the settings I arrived at.
 

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The other benefit to consider Rick (for the majority), is running the machine on low lamp vs. high all the time (although I could also make an argument which I'm testing tonight is that even in SDR2020 one should run the lamp on High as well. ;)
I look forward to hearing your results with SDR Bt2020 in high lamp mode.
 

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I had to go back a few posts,

THIS (in Bold) may be the root of all your problems
and the one thing that separates your issues from all others.
IMHO, Fix that first!

There is also virtually no distinct visual difference from 4:4:4/12Bit to 4:2:2/12Bit
as ALL Current Native 4K/UHD discs are 4K/24p BT.2020 4:2:0 10 Bit, period.

However that is not a valid format for HDMI, (see the chart posted previously)
so it MUST be converted in the player to 4:4:4 or 4:2:2

If you're getting BT.2020 4:2:2 12-Bit,
it's already spec'd higher than what's on the disc

I used 4:2:2 12Bit for the first month and didn't see any difference at all:


...IMHO, leave well enough alone and just enjoy the movie
But for crying out loud, load the BT.2020 profile to your JVC FIRST
or its all completely moot!

Peace Out :D
Finally was able to update the latest firmware on my JVC. If I understood correctly, I'd have to download the calibration software and then use the lan line to connect pc with projector and then import the pt2020.prof using calibration software?
 

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Something is strange in my x7000, on some scenes like when something is in the center of the image and the rest is all black, an halo apears in the top of the image, i thought it was a room reflection but it is not and the 5030 dont do this, not apears in every scene, i searche on avs and it seems like its internal reflections that the x7000 does, is it normal? It passes with time and use?

Enviado do meu GT-I9505 através de Tapatalk
I've noticed this and I think it is a reflection off the internal iris. A torture test is the classic 007 intro, when it looks like your seeing through the rifled barrel of a gun that pans across the screen. There is a corresponding halo that will chase the opposite direction.

It likely is more prone to happen with this high contrast image and a small iris aperture.
 
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