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I won't go much further because I don't want to beat a dead horse but I tried every single available route to get to a dealer without success. I've filled out forms, PMed with people, emailed with people from MadVR but after 2 or so weeks still no contact from a dealer able to sell. At the end of the day I want to buy but I'm not going to beg them to sell to me, its kind of ridiculous.

BTW I am in Indiana about 15 minutes outside Chicago, where do I buy?
@lovingdvd can you help? Seems silly that you have a sale here waiting to happen...
 

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@lovingdvd can you help? Seems silly that you have a sale here waiting to happen...
Already tried that. I am going to stop responding because I don't want to be too negative. I do want to provide honest feedback on my experience which hopefully can help them improve things.
 

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I won't go much further because I don't want to beat a dead horse but I tried every single available route to get to a dealer without success. I've filled out forms, PMed with people, emailed with people from MadVR but after 2 or so weeks still no contact from a dealer able to sell. At the end of the day I want to buy but I'm not going to beg them to sell to me, its kind of ridiculous.

BTW I am in Indiana about 15 minutes outside Chicago, where do I buy?
Hi there - as I wrote to you earlier today, Mathias and I both spent a fair amount of time providing personalized answers to your technical questions on the same day you wrote to us, and on the same day I asked our rep firm that handles your state to contact you. I also kindly asked you to let me know if within 2 days if you didn't hear from anyone. That was over a week ago and today was the first I learned that you had not heard from them. I realize that it is not your responsibility to follow up, however. I contacted our rep firm after your message today to find out if they reached out to you (may be an email deliverability issue) and if not, why. Sadly, not everyone moves at the pace we'd ideally like, especially with time off around the holidays. Envy certainy is not vaporware, and in fact very far from it. Due to very heavy demand, however, it can take some patience to get one, depending on where within the country you are. Anyway on behalf of madVR Labs and the reps and dealer, I apologize for your furstrating experience, and very sorry that it did not work out for you.
 

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@lovingdvd can you help? Seems silly that you have a sale here waiting to happen...
Thanks for the heads up ddgdl. :) Sadly, this has happened a couple other times in the past and the intersted customers just drops us a line to say they haven't heard from anyone and then we get it taken care of. Anyway as mentioned above, when you're dealing with a distribution network. we've learned that not everyone always moves as fast as we'd like. I certainly think there have been some sales that have fallen through the cracks, as we are not perfect and a reminder can go a long way. It has been a fun and interesting challenge learning how to operate at this scale as we continue to grow like crazy! I do understand his frustration though. We'll talk with our reps and try our best to do better.
 

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Regarding Shifting Aspect Ratio shows:
These are problematic for anyone watching on a scope screen. The Envy aside, there is no way to 'honor' the director's intent of having the "Imax" scenes increase the overall image size, making it more visually imposing, without playing the whole thing at 16:9, and thereby not taking advantage of your screen's full width.
Can you explain this a bit more please? Are you referring to the option of displaying the 2.x sections of the content zoomed to CIW 16:9? It still surprises me that anyone would want to do that, as it's the one option that isn't known to be "theatre safe" (whereas at least masking to CIH mostly is).
I watched Tenet the other day, which shifts from 2.20:1 to 16:9, and I just let the Envy show each aspect ratio when present. It was virtually instantaneous, and hardly noticeable
What does "show each aspect ratio when present" mean in this context? Surely that's just watching the content as it is on disc?
If the movie is "mostly" 16:9 (or whatever), with only occasional scope scenes, then select 16:9, being aware that the side content of those scenes will be cropped out.
It sounds like you've used the AA stuff quite a bit. Can you elaborate more on the timings of these things? Ideally a video of how the AR changes happen would be great. I already have an AR solution in a competing product which inspite of the "Envy aside" comment you make above can do all those options for AR adjustment automatically if you configure them. However I'd never use any of the options that modify the zoom during an AR changing title as to me they greatly interrupt the flow of the movie - there are reasonable delays, and those delays can be longer if the scene is a bit indeterminate (due to dark levels etc). In the case of 16:9 screen and zooming the 2.x sections, you'd expect to see short bursts of the top / bottom black bars in those sections before the AR kicked in.

Thanks!
 

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Can you explain this a bit more please? Are you referring to the option of displaying the 2.x sections of the content zoomed to CIW 16:9? It still surprises me that anyone would want to do that, as it's the one option that isn't known to be "theatre safe" (whereas at least masking to CIH mostly is).
I'm not exactly sure what you're asking here, but I'll give it a shot:

When shown in a commercial Theater, setup to show the content reflecting the director's intent, I would assume that the 2.x:1 sections would fill the full width of the screen (with letterbox bars present top and bottom), and when the Imax scenes show up, the width stays the same, and the image expands vertically to fill those letterbox bars. If this isn't the case, let me know (it's been years since I've been to a 'regular' theater!).

With a scope screen at home, the only way I can see to duplicate this same effect would be to show the entire movie at 16:9, with the pillarbox bars on the sides because it's not using the full screen width. The 2.x:1 sections would be letterboxed top and bottom on top of this, and then with the Imax sections expanding to fill the screen vertically, just as in the theater.

This would 'honor' what I understand to be the director's intent, but it drastically reduces the visual impact because of the much smaller area used by the 2.x:1 sections. Personally, I wouldn't choose to handle variable aspect ratio in this fashion for this reason.

Does this clarify things?

What does "show each aspect ratio when present" mean in this context? Surely that's just watching the content as it is on disc?
On the disc, ignoring zooming of the projector, black bar recognition, etc., you have a 16:9 image. With Tenet having aspect ratio shifting between 16:9 and 2.20:1, what changes is the presence of the letterbox bars, top and bottom. So viewing it on a 16:9 screen, without any intervention, this is what you would see - the black bars coming and going, with changes in the area occupied by the content accordingly.

With the Envy in place, the black bars get recognized, and the image is scaled to remove them: constant image height. The 16:9 content is unchanged, while the 2.20:1 content expands horizontally to (mostly) fill the screen (mostly, since it's still less than the screen's 2.35:1 ratio).

Again, if I'm missed your point, let me know.

It sounds like you've used the AA stuff quite a bit. Can you elaborate more on the timings of these things? Ideally a video of how the AR changes happen would be great. I already have an AR solution in a competing product which inspite of the "Envy aside" comment you make above can do all those options for AR adjustment automatically if you configure them. However I'd never use any of the options that modify the zoom during an AR changing title as to me they greatly interrupt the flow of the movie - there are reasonable delays, and those delays can be longer if the scene is a bit indeterminate (due to dark levels etc). In the case of 16:9 screen and zooming the 2.x sections, you'd expect to see short bursts of the top / bottom black bars in those sections before the AR kicked in.
First, since the Envy is the only product I've used for this purpose, and I don't have experience with any others, I'm simply reporting what I'm seeing with it, and not implying or even thinking that it can't be done with other devices.

As far as something interrupting "the flow of the movie" that is exactly what I dislike about having movies with variable aspect ratio. To me, the director is causing the interruption, drawing attention to the presentation of the movie itself, taking focus away from the action being presented.

That being the case, and given the compromises involved in trying to honor the director's intent and duplicating the theater experience at home (with a scope screen), the question is what are the available options to deal with this. And certainly, this is a personal preference type of thing, with no objective right or wrong.

With the Envy thus far, with movies that change AR, the recognition and scaling is virtually instantaneous. That's what I was pointing out with my comments on Tenet. If there were a several-second lag between the appearance of the black bars, and the scaling to remove them, that would be quite distracting. Now keep in mind, I haven't watched many movies with changing AR, but so far the Envy seems to handle them as one would want.

When a movie first starts, there is sometimes (not always) a lag of a number of seconds before the black bars are recognized and scaled accordingly, and this can be distracting. But also keep in mind that the Envy is still a work in progress, and the algorithms and options governing this behavior are not in their final state. To some degree, it is my understanding that this lag is by design, and therefore subject to enhancement. I'm hopeful that the initial black bar recognition will become as invisible as what I experienced during a movie like Tenet.

Whew! That's way too long, but hopefully I've understood and addressed your questions. If not, I'm happy to have another crack at it (and feel free to pm me to follow-up, even discuss by phone) if this might work better.
 
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When shown in a commercial Theater, setup to show the content reflecting the director's intent, I would assume that the 2.x:1 sections would fill the full width of the screen (with letterbox bars present top and bottom), and when the Imax scenes show up, the width stays the same, and the image expands vertically to fill those letterbox bars. If this isn't the case, let me know (it's been years since I've been to a 'regular' theater!).

With a scope screen at home, the only way I can see to duplicate this same effect would be to show the entire movie at 16:9, with the pillarbox bars on the sides because it's not using the full screen width. The 2.x:1 sections would be letterboxed top and bottom on top of this, and then with the Imax sections expanding to fill the screen vertically, just as in the theater.

This would 'honor' what I understand to be the director's intent, but it drastically reduces the visual impact because of the much smaller area used by the 2.x:1 sections. Personally, I wouldn't choose to handle variable aspect ratio in this fashion for this reason.
In most screens in most theatres (if they still exist!) I think you still get the 2.4:1 masked version (so the imax top and bottom cropped). In Imax screens you get Imax AR for the appropriate shots, and whatever chosen scope AR for the rest.

On a scope screen in the home you'd usually go for the "most screens and most theatres" option which doesn't need any special scaling - all you need to make sure is that you mask the top and bottom if you're not using an A-lens. That's the only director's intent option, as clearly they didn't intend anyone to watch it pillarboxed smaller than a big TV! :)
On the disc, ignoring zooming of the projector, black bar recognition, etc., you have a 16:9 image. With Tenet having aspect ratio shifting between 16:9 and 2.20:1, what changes is the presence of the letterbox bars, top and bottom. So viewing it on a 16:9 screen, without any intervention, this is what you would see - the black bars coming and going, with changes in the area occupied by the content accordingly.

With the Envy in place, the black bars get recognized, and the image is scaled to remove them: constant image height. The 16:9 content is unchanged, while the 2.20:1 content expands horizontally to (mostly) fill the screen (mostly, since it's still less than the screen's 2.35:1 ratio).
OK, so you're slightly pillarboxing the 2.2 content and leaving the 16:9 alone, which means you get some side pillarboxes showing when on the 2.2 sections? I guess I'd be tempted to just scale it so the 2.2 fits in the height and then run fixed scaling for the whole title, but it's super-fringe as I think it must be the only title (I'm aware of) that is 2.2 and 16:9?
First, since the Envy is the only product I've used for this purpose, and I don't have experience with any others, I'm simply reporting what I'm seeing with it, and not implying or even thinking that it can't be done with other devices.
Fair enough, I interpreted your "Envy aside" comment as indicating it was only possible with the Envy, which I don't think is true based on my own experience.
As far as something interrupting "the flow of the movie" that is exactly what I dislike about having movies with variable aspect ratio. To me, the director is causing the interruption, drawing attention to the presentation of the movie itself, taking focus away from the action being presented.
I must say it doesn't bother me so much, I quite enjoy those sections, as the cuts are instant, but then my screen setup is different with top / bottom electric masks on 16:9 masking all ratios down to 2.4:1, which has it's own limitations and detractors...! :)
With the Envy thus far, with movies that change AR, the recognition and scaling is virtually instantaneous. That's what I was pointing out with my comments on Tenet. If there were a several-second lag between the appearance of the black bars, and the scaling to remove them, that would be quite distracting. Now keep in mind, I haven't watched many movies with changing AR, but so far the Envy seems to handle them as one would want.

When a movie first starts, there is sometimes (not always) a lag of a number of seconds before the black bars are recognized and scaled accordingly, and this can be distracting. But also keep in mind that the Envy is still a work in progress, and the algorithms and options governing this behavior are not in their final state. To some degree, it is my understanding that this lag is by design, and therefore subject to enhancement. I'm hopeful that the initial black bar recognition will become as invisible as what I experienced during a movie like Tenet.
This is the crux of it, it sounds like what your describing at least may well work a bit quicker than on the product I have... but it's difficult to judge as you don't have experience of said product as a baseline. Virtually instantaneous is certainly not a description I would ever say applies, and I couldn't really countenance doing what you're doing with Tenant as I know it would be too slow, but it's hard to judge if we're talking difference of tolerance / expectation or performance.

I will note it sounds from how you describe it that the way it is set up in the menus is a bit more friendly.

I'm going to grab a copy of Tenant at some point and have a play, maybe we could swap videos of a certain short section with a few aspect transitions?
 

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I have a madvr pc setup to crop black bars with a Paladin DCR lens. The changes are nearly instantaneous during Tenet- barely a flash, with the image maintaining constant image height and just expanding and contracting width when it goes from IMAX to 2.2 and back to IMAX. If you look really hard, you can spot them, but they are almost always hidden in scene transitions (which makes sense as that is when the aspect ratio switches occur in the source material 99.9999999% of the time)
 

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In most screens in most theatres (if they still exist!) I think you still get the 2.4:1 masked version (so the imax top and bottom cropped). In Imax screens you get Imax AR for the appropriate shots, and whatever chosen scope AR for the rest.

On a scope screen in the home you'd usually go for the "most screens and most theatres" option which doesn't need any special scaling - all you need to make sure is that you mask the top and bottom if you're not using an A-lens. That's the only director's intent option, as clearly they didn't intend anyone to watch it pillarboxed smaller than a big TV! :)
Agreed - prior to the Envy, with the DCR only, that is what I would do - watch it in scope, and forget about the imax scenes. With the Envy, it opens up other options, which I'm still exploring and considering.

OK, so you're slightly pillarboxing the 2.2 content and leaving the 16:9 alone, which means you get some side pillarboxes showing when on the 2.2 sections? I guess I'd be tempted to just scale it so the 2.2 fits in the height and then run fixed scaling for the whole title, but it's super-fringe as I think it must be the only title (I'm aware of) that is 2.2 and 16:9?
Understood, and yes, this is the only oddball movie with this mix of AR that I'm aware of. As ddgdl reported after your post, the switching really is instantaneous, at least with this movie, such that you really only see the change in horizontal extension of the image.
And I have motorized masking curtains on the side, so for this movie, I just positioned them to cover the pillarbox bars for 2.20:1 aspect ratio, and it worked fine. And for the 16:9 portions, I would just have to ignore the pillarbox bars, since moving the curtains in and out really wouldn't be practical!

Fair enough, I interpreted your "Envy aside" comment as indicating it was only possible with the Envy, which I don't think is true based on my own experience.
Gotcha - yeah, I can see how you might have read that comment like that, but it certainly wasn't my intent.

I must say it doesn't bother me so much, I quite enjoy those sections, as the cuts are instant, but then my screen setup is different with top / bottom electric masks on 16:9 masking all ratios down to 2.4:1, which has it's own limitations and detractors...! :)
Indeed - there are no ideal solutions to any of this stuff. It's just nice to have as many options available as possible to accommodate personal preferences.

This is the crux of it, it sounds like what your describing at least may well work a bit quicker than on the product I have... but it's difficult to judge as you don't have experience of said product as a baseline. Virtually instantaneous is certainly not a description I would ever say applies, and I couldn't really countenance doing what you're doing with Tenant as I know it would be too slow, but it's hard to judge if we're talking difference of tolerance / expectation or performance.

I will note it sounds from how you describe it that the way it is set up in the menus is a bit more friendly.

I'm going to grab a copy of Tenant at some point and have a play, maybe we could swap videos of a certain short section with a few aspect transitions?
In this case, it really is essentially instantaneous from what I recall of the experience, and I'm glad to have ddgdl confirm my recollection. This is a movie that deserves repeat watchings, and if I do, I'll pay special attention.

And I'd be glad to swap videos of whatever sections you'd like. Keep me posted on this.
 
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Already tried that. I am going to stop responding because I don't want to be too negative. I do want to provide honest feedback on my experience which hopefully can help them improve things.
There is a retail place called Audio video Interiors in Oakbrook, Illinois. I believe they have MadVR Envy to demo.
 

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Sorry if this question has been asked here before but is the Envy able to automatically detect and engage the right zoom memory for 16:9 and 2.4:1 when using a projector such as the JVC NX5 in conjunction with a 2.4:1 screen?

This is assuming no DCR lens and no masking feature on the screen. Hence for scope content, the projection would spill over on the top and bottom of the screen. This can probably be dealt with by covering the screen wall with good quality matt black fabric material.

Has anyone achieved this successfully?

Out of interest - does the DCR lens effect brightness to a small extent? (5% to 10%?)
 

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Sorry if this question has been asked here before but is the Envy able to automatically detect and engage the right zoom memory for 16:9 and 2.4:1 when using a projector such as the JVC NX5 in conjunction with a 2.4:1 screen?

This is assuming no DCR lens and no masking feature on the screen. Hence for scope content, the projection would spill over on the top and bottom of the screen. This can probably be dealt with by covering the screen wall with good quality matt black fabric material.

Has anyone achieved this successfully?

Out of interest - does the DCR lens effect brightness to a small extent? (5% to 10%?)
One of the advantages having an Envy provides is to avoid having to use Lens Zoom. While the current JVC's are fairly accurate in this regard, there is often some 'play' in the system such that it isn't consistently precise from one position to another. But the Envy has the ability to rescale the image to put a 16:9 image in your 2.4:1 screen without having to zoom. The only downside here is that you're not using the full chip when doing this.

(I use the Envy with a DCR Lens, but it is my understanding that the same functional result can be achieved without the DCR. If I'm not correct here, I'm sure someone will set the record straight.)

If you did want to use the Zoom method, I think you would need another device to "tell" the JVC to go to a different Installation Mode. Since IP control is being implemented in the Envy, with Drivers coming for Control4, Crestron, RTI, etc., this would provide the means to do what you're asking about. The Envy would detect the Aspect Ratio of the incoming content, and programming in one of these systems could then be configured to send the appropriate command to the JVC to switch modes depending on the Aspect Ratio value.

As for the DCR Lens, there is a 38% bump in light output going from the Lens Zoom method, using 3840x2160 resolution for scope content, to using the DCR, along with 4096x2160 resolution. So it is substantial, which is one of the reasons it's so attractive.

The combination of the Envy and DCR, while it clearly has its cost, is awesome, where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Each is excellent on its own, but having them both provides the best in terms of picture quality and versatility in displaying content of any aspect ratio.
 
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One of the advantages having an Envy provides is to avoid having to use Lens Zoom. While the current JVC's are fairly accurate in this regard, there is often some 'play' in the system such that it isn't consistently precise from one position to another. But the Envy has the ability to rescale the image to put a 16:9 image in your 2.4:1 screen without having to zoom. The only downside here is that you're not using the full chip when doing this.

(I use the Envy with a DCR Lens, but it is my understanding that the same functional result can be achieved without the DCR. If I'm not correct here, I'm sure someone will set the record straight.)
Yes, that´s correct.
You tell the Envy how many lines you want to cut off from the top and/or the bottom and then the Envy places the image exactly into that area. This can also be done with left/right or a combination of top/bottom+Left/right masking.
 
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Yes, that´s correct.
You tell the Envy how many lines you want to cut off from the top and/or the bottom and then the Envy places the image exactly into that area. This can also be done with left/right or a combination of top/bottom+Left/right masking.
DLCPhoto and HockyAVS - thank you for your kind and useful input. I'm trying to understand this correctly, so the DCR lens enables the use of the full chip to produce the scope image and that makes sense. However, what about 16:9 content? - is the full brightness maintained with the 16:9 image centred on the 1.4:1 scope screen? I presume the full chip is used for the 16:9 content. When displaying 16:9 content on a 1.4:1 scope screen, do the left and right edges of the 16:9 image appear vertically straight? Any noticeable barrel distortion would be visually uncomfortable.

HockyAVS, defining lines to cut-off comes across as a form of digital masking - does this technique, without a DCR lens, only use part of the chip?
 

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HockyAVS, defining lines to cut-off comes across as a form of digital masking - does this technique, without a DCR lens, only use part of the chip?
Yes, you lose resolution ("part of the chip") because you´re cutting away lines (as you describe in post #215). However, you don´t lose content since the content is scaled to be displayed within the remaining "window".
 

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DLCPhoto and HockyAVS - thank you for your kind and useful input. I'm trying to understand this correctly, so the DCR lens enables the use of the full chip to produce the scope image and that makes sense. However, what about 16:9 content? - is the full brightness maintained with the 16:9 image centred on the 1.4:1 scope screen? I presume the full chip is used for the 16:9 content. When displaying 16:9 content on a 1.4:1 scope screen, do the left and right edges of the 16:9 image appear vertically straight? Any noticeable barrel distortion would be visually uncomfortable.

HockyAVS, defining lines to cut-off comes across as a form of digital masking - does this technique, without a DCR lens, only use part of the chip?
As @hockyAVS points out, with the DCR Lens and the Envy, 16:9 does not make full use of the chip (while 2.40:1 does). This was of concern to me initially, but I have to say that I don't see any problem, or lack of brightness. To avoid this, you would have to remove the DCR Lens, and then rezoom the projector's lens, to make full use of the chip for 16:9. But for most of us, this is impractical, and honestly, I don't feel like I'm "losing out" on anything when watching 16:9 content with the DCR and Envy. It has the same pixel density and appearance as 2.40:1 content, just not going the full width.

There is no barrel distortion when viewing 16:9 content in this fashion, since you are not using the full sides of the chip and lens. Barrel distortion is present to some degree when viewing 2.40:1 content, but we just zoom the image slightly so that those areas get masked in the screen's frame.

And further, Madshi has indicated that he is planning on adding the capability to reduce or eliminate the barrel distortion down the road (for the Extreme version, as of the last I read on this). These future enhancements contributed to my decision to go with the Envy.
 
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