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Nothing about any 11ch amped receiver?

I was hoping that the 7011 would get that.
I could also accept if Marantz made a 4ch power amp, for the ceiling speakers, one that is priced less than their stereo power amp (at least less than that one is, in my country), with less power of course, but those channels would need less power for most people.
I assume that the Stereo power amp is better than using two of the SR7010 channels when used together with all 9channels. But adding a stereo power amp, feels strange to me. If I wanted to imrpove on the sound, in the fron channels, I would like that to include the center channel as well, so a 3 channel power amp would feel better to me. Also those are the 3 channels that tend to reqire most resources, so it seems like that would be a logic model for home theare users. As far a I know they don't have a matching mono-block either so you can't add 2+1 channel amplification.


I could see myself using another brand for all ceiling channels, but adding 4 channels of the cheapest hifi power-amp (2x stereo power amps) in my country would set me back almost as much as the stereo power amp from Marantz.
So that isn't worth it.
And the 6011 I assume will not get 11.1/11.2 channel processing, so I cant save some money there, to invest in power-amps for all the ceiling speakers.

Not for 2016 no, and perhaps not for a few years.
 

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Nothing about any 11ch amped receiver?

I was hoping that the 7011 would get that.
I could also accept if Marantz made a 4ch power amp, for the ceiling speakers, one that is priced less than their stereo power amp (at least less than that one is, in my country), with less power of course, but those channels would need less power for most people.
I assume that the Stereo power amp is better than using two of the SR7010 channels when used together with all 9channels. But adding a stereo power amp, feels strange to me. If I wanted to imrpove on the sound, in the fron channels, I would like that to include the center channel as well, so a 3 channel power amp would feel better to me. Also those are the 3 channels that tend to reqire most resources, so it seems like that would be a logic model for home theare users. As far a I know they don't have a matching mono-block either so you can't add 2+1 channel amplification.


I could see myself using another brand for all ceiling channels, but adding 4 channels of the cheapest hifi power-amp (2x stereo power amps) in my country would set me back almost as much as the stereo power amp from Marantz.
So that isn't worth it.
And the 6011 I assume will not get 11.1/11.2 channel processing, so I cant save some money there, to invest in power-amps for all the ceiling speakers.
Have you investigated the used market in your country? Of course, people who use separate amps seldom have any reason to get rid of them. Another source is in professional audio. Professional amps often have noisy fans, but that can be compensated for.

Unfortunately, I think your assumptions about the limited power requirements of the overhead and surround channels may be mistaken. While the surrounds' average use is lower than the fronts', the peak sound levels are going to be similar for all of the speaker channels when playing modern movie soundtracks. If you don't provide adequate power, then those peaks are going to clip. Of course, the power requirements depend on the efficiency and impedance of the speakers you've chosen. Also, many people like to use amps that are more powerful than they actually need, so using less powerful ones for some channels usually is OK.
 

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Have you investigated the used market in your country? Of course, people who use separate amps seldom have any reason to get rid of them. Another source is in professional audio. Professional amps often have noisy fans, but that can be compensated for.

Unfortunately, I think your assumptions about the limited power requirements of the overhead and surround channels may be mistaken. While the surrounds' average use is lower than the fronts', the peak sound levels are going to be similar for all of the speaker channels when playing modern movie soundtracks. If you don't provide adequate power, then those peaks are going to clip. Of course, the power requirements depend on the efficiency and impedance of the speakers you've chosen. Also, many people like to use amps that are more powerful than they actually need, so using less powerful ones for some channels usually is OK.
The used market is probably OK. Perhaps not for pickung up a currrent Marantz power amplifier.
But people that are in to hifi here likes to update from time to time, and that include power amps.
But I prefer buying new with warranty.

Do pro amps use the same voltage, so that volume will be tracking?
If I'm not misstaken line level signal in pro equipment is different from RCA line level, but that might not be true for pre-outs.
Also I've heard that the 7010 has settings for the level of the outputs, so one might be matching.

The 7010 has a built in fan. I was dissapointed to find that out. I've seen that other makers uses fans, cause they have a fan grill on the back. But apparenty the 7010 has one inside.
And there are pro-amps without fans.
There is a bigger selection of pro-amps in the lower price bracket. But they look awfull. And they also have those annoying rack-ears, that I'm not sure always can be removed.
And they might be using other connectors, as RCA isn't really a standard for feeding pro-amps. Sometimes you can make adapters for other connectors, but I'm not that technical and not a wiz with the soldering iron, so I'm not confident that I can produce the adapters my self.


You are probably right, the speakers used for surround are probably not that much more effecient than the front speakers.

But mixing that much sound in to the surround speakers is perhaps not the best way to do it, if you want as many consumers as possible to invest in surround equipment, since the sound is only there for a few minutes in some films, it feels like overkill, to get the kind of speakers you need.
But when I read about Dolby Atmos ceiling speakers, I got the feeling that you could get away with lesser speakers.
 

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The used market is probably OK. Perhaps not for pickung up a currrent Marantz power amplifier.
But people that are in to hifi here likes to update from time to time, and that include power amps.
But I prefer buying new with warranty.

Do pro amps use the same voltage, so that volume will be tracking?
My understanding is that most pro amps with RCA inputs have the same sensitivity as home entertainment amps. All amps are linear, so the Audyssey calibration works for amps with different sensitivities and gains.
If I'm not misstaken line level signal in pro equipment is different from RCA line level, but that might not be true for pre-outs.
I think you might be confusing XLR signal levels with RCA. XLRs tend to provide twice the signal level since they usually have the same signal levels on both their + and - connections. The signals on the two connections are added together in most amp designs.
Also I've heard that the 7010 has settings for the level of the outputs, so one might be matching.
The trim level of each speaker channel can be adjusted, as can the sensitivity of each of the receiver's inputs.
The 7010 has a built in fan. I was dissapointed to find that out. I've seen that other makers uses fans, cause they have a fan grill on the back. But apparenty the 7010 has one inside.
It does, but it turns on only at a very high temperature, so it might just as well have no fan. Many people like to provide quiet external fans which keep the AVR at a much lower temperature.
And there are pro-amps without fans.
There is a bigger selection of pro-amps in the lower price bracket. But they look awfull. And they also have those annoying rack-ears, that I'm not sure always can be removed.
And they might be using other connectors, as RCA isn't really a standard for feeding pro-amps. Sometimes you can make adapters for other connectors, but I'm not that technical and not a wiz with the soldering iron, so I'm not confident that I can produce the adapters my self.
Most Pro amps do use XLR connections. RCA to XLR adapters are readily available. You don't have to make your own.
You are probably right, the speakers used for surround are probably not that much more effecient than the front speakers.

But mixing that much sound in to the surround speakers is perhaps not the best way to do it, if you want as many consumers as possible to invest in surround equipment, since the sound is only there for a few minutes in some films, it feels like overkill, to get the kind of speakers you need.
But when I read about Dolby Atmos ceiling speakers, I got the feeling that you could get away with lesser speakers.
You have to decide if you want to design your system for "most movies" or if you want it to work well for the most demanding ones, too.
 

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My understanding is that most pro amps with RCA inputs have the same sensitivity as home entertainment amps. All amps are linear, so the Audyssey calibration works for amps with different sensitivities and gains. I think you might be confusing XLR signal levels with RCA. XLRs tend to provide twice the signal level since they usually have the same signal levels on both their + and - connections. The signals on the two connections are added together in most amp designs. The trim level of each speaker channel can be adjusted, as can the sensitivity of each of the receiver's inputs. It does, but it turns on only at a very high temperature, so it might just as well have no fan. Many people like to provide quiet external fans which keep the AVR at a much lower temperature. Most Pro amps do use XLR connections. RCA to XLR adapters are readily available. You don't have to make your own. You have to decide if you want to design your system for "most movies" or if you want it to work well for the most demanding ones, too.
If the ones with RCA just works, that would make things a lot easier when looking for what is out there. Then I can just filter by RCA. Unfortunately it does decrease the selection.
The fact that the output can be made to work with different gains/sensitivites only works if the one that I am about to use, falls within that reach. I would not be surpriced if a consumer level product don't deliver the same output voltage as required by pro equipment. But pre-outs don't use high current, so there is really no logical reason.

Do you by any chance know if the outputs of the 7010 can be made to work as RCA level outputs (I'm investigating how to connect some active speaker systems to pre-outs of a suround receiver to be combined with passive speakers driven by the receiver, I understand that it won't get volume control over the speakers. Such a set-up would require volume testing and using only pre defined volume settings on speakers in combination with the receiver to get a matching result).


Line signals in Pro equipment is usually delivered by TRS or XLR, I didn't say Pro equipment with RCA connectors. I made a difference between pro equipment and RCA. I never doubt that the tape connectors on my mixer or the RCA connectors on one of my synths work if I connect them to a RCA input.

I don't fully understand how line level works. I tried to google it, but never found an article for newbies.


From my understanding the fan in the 7010 is not the most quiet model at it's size. And it is quite small, and larger fans tend be more quiet as they can spin slower for the same airflow.

The question should probably be how soon it turns of, cause during high load, there is usually a lot of sound going on, drowning the fan noise. But there is usually dramatic changes in dynamics so loud scenes/music is often followed by quieter parts.

But what's even worse in my case is my Tivo box. It's never fully in stand-by as from times it stars running to do recordings or to check things up. And since you can have it record episodes of a series, or keep the look-out for certain things, or you want to take advantage of it's smart recording features, where it records show that it thinks you will like, you cant turn it of on the main switch either.

When looking on films using my projector, I have no doubt that the fan in the projector would be louder than in a marantz. When using my TV in combination with surround sound, I would not feel that bothered if the fan started, I would use the projector for watching things I'm really invested in.

But I have to admit I like playing music in surround, even if it's "wrong", when it's not a surround recording.
And during music sessions I would like the room to be as silent as possible.
I've flac'ed my music collection. I have a fanless Intel Atom media PC right now, and will build a fanless media PC as soon as intel Core's graphics in combination with the motherboard can handle the full UltraHD BluRay specifications. And that one would use SSD. And my music collection will sit on a NAS in another room.
So there wont be any spinnings discs, fans or HDD that I can hear while listening to music, If I just find solution to get my tivo out of the room.


I know there are RCA to XLR adapters. I actually have some, that I bought just in case.
But I dont fully understand, because pretty much everytime I see stuff about making your own adaptors, for stuff from the music industry, they seem to contain things like resistors and stuff like that. I have never studied electrics, so I don't understand the math they post. Or understand how sometimes a lead can be left going nowhere.
But that still depends on if the voltage is compatible, from the output. If it is, well then the whole pro market is open.


But already most pre designed systems are designed with more capable speakers at the front (sure there is a chance that the ones with equaly small speakers for each channel outsells other kind of systems, but looking on what's on offer, most have more capable speakers in the front).
So one could expect sound designers to understand that, and not put that much heavy sound in surround speakers. Designing with the LFE in mind, it should be possible to create sounds that sound convincing enough when moving from the front, without the audience need to be surrounded with speakers that are all good enough to be main speakers just for a few scenes in action heavy films.

With Atmos we have gotten a new channel naming convention, but perhaps we should have had a better one from the start.
2 (full range front speakers, that then also works for stereo music) .1 (center channel a capable speaker that should at least be able to hold its own to a cutoff at 80Hz) . 2/4 (non full range surround channels that rely on the LFE for the bottom end but then has a frequency gap, so the speakers could be designed cheaper and without the need to redirect the bass within frequencies that are actual directional to our hearing to the subwoofer) .1 (the subwoofer) or perhaps it should be .LFE or.1LFE since sound designers don't use more than one LFE, that way the new Atmos speakers could be added before the LFE channel in the naming without confusion, if you know that the LFE is at the end of it all.
There is not point of having too much happening with sound in the room, as you wont be able to see the things that are not on the screen. So all surround channels are actually just FX channels, and treating them as such would make sense.
At least until there are VR movies, but I doubt we will se that many films that allow the viewer to turn it's head at any given moment to investigate any enviromental or FX sound coming from surround speakers. And few prople would probably sit with VR glasses while listening to sound from speakers in the room.


I'm now going for a system that has pretty capable speakers in all positions.
But I'm just saying that they should have thought differently.
With smaller FX speakers, they could have sold systems with more speakers to more people. The speakers would have been more discrete, easier to place in the right position, and much easier to mount in the ceiling, if they didn't need special brackets or holder, but could just hang on a single screw.
And the smaller the speaker the easier to make them in to a design objects. Objects that could perhaps been the kind of thing people would accept in their homes.
 

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If the ones with RCA just works, that would make things a lot easier when looking for what is out there. Then I can just filter by RCA. Unfortunately it does decrease the selection.
The fact that the output can be made to work with different gains/sensitivites only works if the one that I am about to use, falls within that reach. I would not be surpriced if a consumer level product don't deliver the same output voltage as required by pro equipment. But pre-outs don't use high current, so there is really no logical reason.

Do you by any chance know if the outputs of the 7010 can be made to work as RCA level outputs (I'm investigating how to connect some active speaker systems to pre-outs of a suround receiver to be combined with passive speakers driven by the receiver, I understand that it won't get volume control over the speakers. Such a set-up would require volume testing and using only pre defined volume settings on speakers in combination with the receiver to get a matching result).
The 7010 includes a full set of 13 line-level preamp outputs on RCA connections (plus stereo outputs for Zones 2 and 3). As you say, the gain control on the speakers would have to be set to a fixed level. If you want a preamp/processor with the same capabilities and with XLR outputs, you should consider the AV7702 MkII. It does cost somewhat more than the SR7010 when purchased outside the US, but only about half as much as the AV8802A.

Line signals in Pro equipment is usually delivered by TRS or XLR, I didn't say Pro equipment with RCA connectors. I made a difference between pro equipment and RCA. I never doubt that the tape connectors on my mixer or the RCA connectors on one of my synths work if I connect them to a RCA input.

I don't fully understand how line level works. I tried to google it, but never found an article for newbies.
Line level just means it outputs a signal voltage that's typically in the range of +/- 2 Volts or so (perhaps with a maximum of as much as 8 Volts), not the 90 Volts used to directly drive passive speakers.
From my understanding the fan in the 7010 is not the most quiet model at it's size. And it is quite small, and larger fans tend be more quiet as they can spin slower for the same airflow.

The question should probably be how soon it turns of, cause during high load, there is usually a lot of sound going on, drowning the fan noise. But there is usually dramatic changes in dynamics so loud scenes/music is often followed by quieter parts.
The temperature at which the 7010's internal fan turns on is so high that it never turns on during normal use.
But what's even worse in my case is my Tivo box. It's never fully in stand-by as from times it stars running to do recordings or to check things up. And since you can have it record episodes of a series, or keep the look-out for certain things, or you want to take advantage of it's smart recording features, where it records show that it thinks you will like, you cant turn it of on the main switch either.

When looking on films using my projector, I have no doubt that the fan in the projector would be louder than in a marantz. When using my TV in combination with surround sound, I would not feel that bothered if the fan started, I would use the projector for watching things I'm really invested in.

But I have to admit I like playing music in surround, even if it's "wrong", when it's not a surround recording.
And during music sessions I would like the room to be as silent as possible.
I've flac'ed my music collection. I have a fanless Intel Atom media PC right now, and will build a fanless media PC as soon as intel Core's graphics in combination with the motherboard can handle the full UltraHD BluRay specifications. And that one would use SSD. And my music collection will sit on a NAS in another room.
So there wont be any spinnings discs, fans or HDD that I can hear while listening to music, If I just find solution to get my tivo out of the room.


I know there are RCA to XLR adapters. I actually have some, that I bought just in case.
But I dont fully understand, because pretty much everytime I see stuff about making your own adaptors, for stuff from the music industry, they seem to contain things like resistors and stuff like that. I have never studied electrics, so I don't understand the math they post. Or understand how sometimes a lead can be left going nowhere.
But that still depends on if the voltage is compatible, from the output. If it is, well then the whole pro market is open.


But already most pre designed systems are designed with more capable speakers at the front (sure there is a chance that the ones with equaly small speakers for each channel outsells other kind of systems, but looking on what's on offer, most have more capable speakers in the front).
So one could expect sound designers to understand that, and not put that much heavy sound in surround speakers. Designing with the LFE in mind, it should be possible to create sounds that sound convincing enough when moving from the front, without the audience need to be surrounded with speakers that are all good enough to be main speakers just for a few scenes in action heavy films.
Sound designers design the soundtracks to meet the requirements of the movie and the director's instructions. It's up to you to provide an appropriate sound system.
With Atmos we have gotten a new channel naming convention, but perhaps we should have had a better one from the start.
2 (full range front speakers, that then also works for stereo music) .1 (center channel a capable speaker that should at least be able to hold its own to a cutoff at 80Hz) . 2/4 (non full range surround channels that rely on the LFE for the bottom end but then has a frequency gap, so the speakers could be designed cheaper and without the need to redirect the bass within frequencies that are actual directional to our hearing to the subwoofer) .1 (the subwoofer) or perhaps it should be .LFE or.1LFE since sound designers don't use more than one LFE, that way the new Atmos speakers could be added before the LFE channel in the naming without confusion, if you know that the LFE is at the end of it all.
There is not point of having too much happening with sound in the room, as you wont be able to see the things that are not on the screen. So all surround channels are actually just FX channels, and treating them as such would make sense.
That was true at one time, but is misleading today. Gravity is an example of a modern movie which has people's voices coming from all directions. If all of the speaker designs aren't very similar to one another, the voices will seem to change as their directions change. This can be quite distracting. Modern roomEQ software products make different speakers sound very similar to one another, but they aren't perfect. Also, some music discs, for example, are designed to place the listener within the musical group, not out in the audience.
At least until there are VR movies, but I doubt we will se that many films that allow the viewer to turn it's head at any given moment to investigate any enviromental or FX sound coming from surround speakers. And few prople would probably sit with VR glasses while listening to sound from speakers in the room.


I'm now going for a system that has pretty capable speakers in all positions.
But I'm just saying that they should have thought differently.
With smaller FX speakers, they could have sold systems with more speakers to more people. The speakers would have been more discrete, easier to place in the right position, and much easier to mount in the ceiling, if they didn't need special brackets or holder, but could just hang on a single screw.
And the smaller the speaker the easier to make them in to a design objects. Objects that could perhaps been the kind of thing people would accept in their homes.
Many speaker companies do make speakers designed to be fashion objects, just as many make speakers designed to be bi-amped. Just because they're available and usable doesn't mean they're optimal.
 

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D&M Europe has shown their upcoming (Denon/Marantz) products at some conference:
www . areadvd.de/tests/info-special-performance-is-everything-die-denon-marantz-und-heos-neuheiten-von-der-european-dealer-conference-2016/

Can someone figure out from that article differences between SR-6010 and SR-6011? Looking forward to buy one of them.
 

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Well it looks like a new AVP coming out in 2016 - AV7703.

Translation from the link above : :The new precursor AV7703 is equipped with balanced XLR wiring and provides up to 11.2 Processing . 8 x HDMI In and 3 x HDMI -out, the already described above HEOS module and Dolby Atmos / DTS : Decoding X are other features . The precursor is explicitly doing that DSD in 2.8 and 5.6 MHz and FLAC , ALAC , AIFF and WAV are supported , which are likely the other models of Denon and Marantz also dominate . The AV7703 is only available in black. For SR7011 and AV7703 also an Auro - 3D is to have update . For the SR6001 this option is not available ."

Thanks for the link!
 

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Well it looks like a new AVP coming out in 2016 - AV7703.

Translation from the link above : :The new precursor AV7703 is equipped with balanced XLR wiring and provides up to 11.2 Processing . 8 x HDMI In and 3 x HDMI -out, the already described above HEOS module and Dolby Atmos / DTS : Decoding X are other features . The precursor is explicitly doing that DSD in 2.8 and 5.6 MHz and FLAC , ALAC , AIFF and WAV are supported , which are likely the other models of Denon and Marantz also dominate . The AV7703 is only available in black. For SR7011 and AV7703 also an Auro - 3D is to have update . For the SR6001 this option is not available ."

Thanks for the link!
All of which features are the same as in the 2015 xx10 models. My understanding is that one of the major new features is dual-band WiFi.
 
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Discussion Starter #33
^ If the new Audyssey app (will cost around $30) allows tweaking the target curve and select which channels can be disabled/enabled, will be of interest to those who would like to dial in their system. It should be a significant improvement over the cumbersome pro kit. The Audyssey correction filters wont be the same as what Dirac does. Dirac uses a mixed phase response that deals with frequency correction and time. My understanding is that Audyssey focuses on just frequency response and let the time correction fall where ever it lands.

The way bass management is implemented on the pre/pro/receiver and ability to select the appropriate filter is just as important, but that's something that D&M Holdings would have to open up to users. Hoping that they would.

I'm wondering what type of audio improvements that Marantz is offering in their 2016 models compared to 2015?
 

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^ If the new Audyssey app (will cost around $30) allows tweaking the target curve and select which channels can be disabled/enabled, will be of interest to those who would like to dial in their system. It should be a significant improvement over the cumbersome pro kit. The Audyssey correction filters wont be the same as what Dirac does. Dirac uses a mixed phase response that deals with frequency correction and time. My understanding is that Audyssey focuses on just frequency response and let the time correction fall where ever it lands.

The way bass management is implemented on the pre/pro/receiver and ability to select the appropriate filter is just as important, but that's something that D&M Holdings would have to open up to users. Hoping that they would.

I'm wondering what type of audio improvements that Marantz is offering in their 2016 models compared to 2015?
Audyssey corrects in both the time and frequency domain.

 

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Discussion Starter #35
^ Unfortunately jd, what Audyssey claim in their writing didn't come true with in-room measurements using REW.

The Energy Time Curves (ETC) which has energy on the y-axis and time on the x-axis show that the time decay before and after Audyssey being about the same for the important center channel with XT32. I was a bit surprised with this result and thought it was due to user error. I then re-measured and came with similar results.:(

After putting the DDRC-88A with Dirac Live into the audio chain, then carrying out REW measurements there was an improvement in the ETC. Switching back to XT32 showed much worse ETC.

The corrections in the frequency domain between Audyssey XT32 and Dirac Live are quite close and within the measurement error of the instrument.
 
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Guys, how does the Audyssey app on the Marantz 6011 work? Is it on top of the already built in XT32? Or do I have to purchase hardware for it? I don't understand it. (Yes I am a noob in a certain way)


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^ Unfortunately jd, what Audyssey claim in their writing didn't come true with in-room measurements using REW.

The Energy Time Curves (ETC) which has energy on the y-axis and time on the x-axis show that the time decay before and after Audyssey being about the same for the important center channel with XT32. I was a bit surprised with this result and thought it was due to user error. I then re-measured and came with similar results.:(

After putting the DDRC-88A with Dirac Live into the audio chain, then carrying out REW measurements there was an improvement in the ETC. Switching back to XT32 showed much worse ETC.

The corrections in the frequency domain between Audyssey XT32 and Dirac Live are quite close and within the measurement error of the instrument.

If you don't believe that to be the case, I would suggest taking it up with Audyssey directly.
 

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Guys, how does the Audyssey app on the Marantz 6011 work? Is it on top of the already built in XT32? Or do I have to purchase hardware for it? I don't understand it. (Yes I am a noob in a certain way)


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Other than what was listed in the European article, there is no additional information available at this time. More information is likely to become available later this fall when the app is due to be released.
 

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Other than what was listed in the European article, there is on additional information available at this time. More information is likely to become available later this fall when the app is due to be released.


Thanks for your reply. I am looking forward to the new releases!


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Will the AVR pass Dolby Vision?

It's been said that the introduction of the new HDMI 2.0 High Dynamic Range (HDR) feature has a bigger impact on the picture quality then upgrading from a 1080p to 4k TV. There are two competing HDR technologies so when purchasing a new 4k TV (or if you already own one) it is important to understand whether your TV supports HDR at all (older 4k models do not) and if yes, whether it supports only HDR10 or also supports Dolby Vision (see chart below indicating some early information):

HDR10 - open standard; firmware upgradeable; required format on the new 4k UHD BDs

Dolby Vision - Dolby's proprietary hardware chip required in both the source device and the TV but not the AVR, however, the AVR must have the capability to pass the Dolby Vision video (2016 models will be receiving a firmware update to allow for this); optional format on 4k BDs

All 2015 and 2016 Denon and Marantz AVRs are HDR10 capable, but only the 2016 models will eventually be able to pass Dolby Vision after receiving a firmware update late 2017/early 2018.


 
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