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Official Oppo BDP-83 SACD Playback Anomaly Thread

56507 Views 423 Replies 84 Participants Last post by  Avliner, 
fatherom
The 3/29/10 beta firmware seems to cure the clicks/pops between SACD tracks issue. Please try it!

Click here for info about the 3/29/10 beta firmware

AVS Moderator DrDon gave me preliminary approval to begin a new thread to discuss the SACD pop/click track transition issues that some are experiencing on the BDP-83.


The intention of this thread is to document known issues with SACD/DVD-Audio playback. Hopefully, Oppo can use this information towards a fix. I will maintain lists of all offending discs, and keep that list up-to-date in this first post.


The primary issue (at least initially) this thread is intending to track is the single vinyl-like 'click'/'pop' that can occur between tracks on SACDs. The Multichannel and Stereo layers of SACDs seem to show this problem; the redbook CD layer (if present) of SACDs doesn't seem to exhibit this problem. I also acknowledge that other users have not experienced any of these issues at all...some of those users are contributing to this thread as well.


In my experience, this problem occurs with HDMI (PCM or DSD) and analog. It occurs with any permutation of Setup options on the Oppo.

Please PM me if you have any discs that are not on these lists...I will update the lists ASAP.

**PLEASE** Let's keep this thread free from bickering and focus solely on the constructive discussion of the audio problems users may be experiencing during SACD (and possibly DVD-Audio) playback.

**PRETTY PLEASE** I do ask, though, that those who post and claim that they have never heard pops between tracks listen quite carefully...we obviously all have different setups and different ears and different sensitivities to these things. The only reason I mention it at all is because I've already had a few people say they wouldn't have noticed the clicks until I pointed them out in the mp3 I've posted (see post #2 in this thread for more details on said mp3). One poster was helpful and kind enough to admit that they didn't hear the click initially, but then once shown what to listen for, in fact ended up noticing it.


Thanks to all the AVS Forum members who helped make these lists possible.

List of SACDs that (for some) exhibit a single vinyl-like pop/click between tracks:
  1. Bach: Orchestral Suites - Pearlman (Telarc SACD-60619)
  2. Bach: Brandenburg Concertos & Orchestral Suites (BIS-SACD-1721/22)
  3. BAROQUE MUSIC FOR BRASS AND ORGAN – EMPIRE BRASS QUINTET / KUHLMAN – TELARC / SACD-60614
  4. Beautiful Mind OST (DECCA 440-018-139-2)
  5. Beethoven: Piano Sonatas - Pizzaro (Linn Records CKD244)
  6. BEETHOVEN – PIANO CONCERTOS 3, 4 & 5 – PIZARRO / MACKERRAS / SCOTTISH CHAMBER ORCHESTRA – LINN / CKD 336
  7. BEETHOVEN – SYMPHONIES 3 & 8 – JARVI / DEUTCHE KAMMERPHILHARMONIE BREMEN – SONY BMG RCA RED SEAL/ 88697-13066-2
  8. BEETHOVEN – SYMPHONIES 3 & 8 – VANSKA / MINNESOTA ORCHESTRA – BIS / SACD-1516
  9. BEETHOVEN – SYMPHONIES 4 & 7 – JARVI / DEUTCHE KAMMERPHILHARMONIE BREMEN – SONY BMG RCA RED SEAL / 88697-21418-2
  10. BEETHOVEN – SYMPHONIES 5 & 1 – JARVI / DEUTCHE KLAMMERPHILHARMONIE – SONY BMG RCA RED SEAL / 88697 33838 2
  11. Beethoven - Sym 9 (Jarvi)
  12. BERLIOZ – GRANDE MESSE DES MORTS – DAVIS / LONDON SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA – PENTATONE CLASSICS / 5186 191
  13. BERLIOZ – SYMPHONIE FANTASTIQUE – MUNCH / BOSTON SYMPHONY - SONY BMG RCA RED SEAL / 82876-67899-2
  14. BIBER / SCHMELZER – SEVENTEENTH CENTURY MUSIC AND DANCE – ARS ANTIQUA AUSTRIA – CHESKY / SACD 262
  15. BOCCHERINI – FANDANGO, SINFONIE & LA MUSICA NOTTURNA DE MADRID – LES CONCERT DES NATIONS / SAVALL – ALIA VOX / AVSA 9845
  16. Botti, Chris: Night Sessions (between tracks 1 & 2, and 2 & 3)
  17. BRAHMS – SERENADES 1 & 2 – MASUR/GEWANDHAUS ORCHESTER LEIPZEIG – PENTATONE CLASSICS / PTC 5186 188
  18. Brightman, Sarah: La Luna (Angel 07243-5-57794-2-7)
  19. Brightman, Sarah: Time to Say Goodbye (Angel Records)
  20. CHOPIN – BALLADES AND SCHERZOS – RUBENSTEIN – BMG CLASSICS RCA RED SEAL / 82876-61396-2
  21. COPELAND/HINDEMITH – APPALACHIAN SPRING/RODEO…. – SHAW / ATLANTA SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA – TELARC / SACD-60648PRES-
  22. DEBUSSY – PRELUDE A L’APRES-MIDI D’UN FAUNE/NOCTURNES... – JARVI / CINCINNATI SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA – TELARC / SACD-60617
  23. Depeche Mode: Music for the Masses (Mute Records)
  24. Depeche Mode: Violator (Mute) (only between tracks 8 & 9, it seems)
  25. Dion, Celine: All the Way (Epic BS63760)
  26. Dvorak: Sym #9 - Jarvi (Telarc SACD-60616)
  27. Estefan, Gloria: Greatest Hits (Epic 86729)
  28. Forest and Beach / Seigen Ono SD-1003_4H
  29. Gabriel, Peter: Shaking the Tree (Geffen 069-493-628-2) (stereo SACD only...a few tracks click, some don't)
  30. Greenberg, Jay: Sym #5 (Sony 82876-81804-2)
  31. GREIG – PEER GYNT SUITES – RUUD / BERGEN PHILHARMONIC ORCHESTRA – BIS / SACD 1591
  32. HANDEL - MUSIC FOR THE ROYAL FIREWORKS… – PERLMAN / BOSTON BAROQUE – TELARC / SACD- 60594
  33. HANSON – BOLD ISLAND SUITE/SYMPHONY NO 2…. – KUNZEL / CINCINNATI POPS ORCHESTRA – TELARC / SACD-60649
  34. Gene Harris Quartet: Listen Here!
  35. Hiromi: Beyond the Standard (between track 5 & 6)
  36. LACHRIMAE CARAVAGGIO – LE CONCERT DES NATIONS… - JORDI SAVALL / DOMINIQUE FERNANDEZ – ALIA VOX / AVSA 9852
  37. LISZT – VOLODOS PLAYS LISZT – SONY CLASSICAL / 88697065002
  38. MENDELSSOHN – PIANO TRIOS 1 & 2 – FISCHER / MULLER-SCHOTT / GILAD – PENTATONE CLASSICS / PTC 5186 085
  39. MOODY BLUES – DAYS OF FUTURE PAST – DERAM / 983 215-0
  40. MOUSSORGSKY – PICTURES AT AN EXHIBITION – MAAZEL / CLEVELAND ORCHESTRA –TELARC / SACD-60042
  41. MOUSSORGSKY – PICTURES AT AN EXHIBITION – REINER / CHICAGO SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA - RCA RED SEAL BMG CLASSICS / 82876-61394-2
  42. Mozart: Flute Concertos - Pearlman (Telarc SACD-60624)
  43. Mozart: Requiem - Karajan (Deutsche Gramm 471-639-2)
  44. Mozart: Requiem - Kuijken Quartet (Challenge Classics 72121)
  45. Mozart: Requiem - Runnicles (Telarc SACD-60636)
  46. MOZART - CLARINET CONCERTO AND QUINTET – MARTIN FROST / AMSTERDAM SINFONIETTA – BIS / SACD-1263
  47. MOZART – FLUTE CONCERTOS – BEZALY / KANGAS / OSTROBOTHNIAN CHAMBER ORCHESTRA – BIS / SACD-1539
  48. MOZART – SERENATE NOTTURNE / EINE KLEINE NACHTMUSIK – LE CONCERT DES NATIONS / SAVALL – ALIA VOX / AVSA 9846
  49. MOZART – VIOLIN CONCERTOS 3 & 4 – FISCHER / KREIZBERG / NETHERLANDS CHAMBER ORCHESTRA – PENTATONE CLASSICS / PTC 5186 064
  50. MOZART – WIND CONCERTOS – CONCERTGEBOUW CHAMBER ORCHESTRA – PENTATONE CLASSICS / 5186 079
  51. MOZART –SINFONIA CONCERTANTE…. – FISCHER / NICKOLIC / KREIZBURG – PENTATONE CLASSICS / 5186 098
  52. Pink Floyd: DSOTM (mchl/stereo) (Capital CDP 7243-5-82136-2-1) (mch track only: pop between tracks 2 & 3)
  53. POEME – SUWANAI / DUTOIT / PHILHARMONIA ORCHESTRA – PHILLIPS / 475 6189
  54. PROKOFIEV – ROMEO AND JULIET – LITTON / BERGEN PHILHARMONIC ORCHESTRA – BIS / SACD-1301
  55. REBEL/RAMEAU – LES ELEMENS/CASTOR ET POLLUX – L’ORFEO BAROCKORCHESTER – PHOENIX EDITION / 110
  56. SAINT-SAENS / POULENC / BARBER – SYMPHONY NO.3 / ORGAN CONCERTO …. - EISENBACH / PHILADELPHIA ORCHESTRA – ONDINE / ODE 1094-5
  57. Scarlatti: Giardino Di Rose (DECCA 470-650-2)
  58. SCHUBERT – FORELLEN QUINTET – HELMCHEN / TETZLAFF… – PENTATONE CLASSICS / PTC 5186 334
  59. SCHUBERT – SYMPHONIES 8 & 3 – KUBELIK / SYMPHONIE-ORCHESTER DES BAYERISCHEN RUNDFUNKS – AUDITE / 92.542
  60. Seigen Ono: Forest and Beach (SD-1003_4H)
  61. STRAUSS - ALSO SPRACH ZARATHUSTRA / EIN HELDENLEBEN – REINER / CHICAGO SYMPHONY – BMG CLASSICS RCA RED SEAL / 82876-61389-2
  62. Tchaikovsky: Nutcracker Selections - Kunzel (Telarc SACD-60674)
  63. Tchaikovsky: Sym #6/Romeo & Juliet - Parvi (Telarc SACD-60681)
  64. Tchaikovsky: Violin Concerto in D (PentaTone Classics (PTC 5186 095))
  65. TCHAIKOVSKY – SYMPHONY NO.6 / NUTCRACKER SUITE – OZAWA / ORCHESTRE DE PARIS – PENTATONE CLASSICS / 5186 107
  66. Titanic OST (Sony 93091)
  67. TOUS LES MATINS DU MONDE – MARAIS / COLOMBE … – JORDI SAVALL – ALIA VOX / AVSA 9821
  68. Vivaldi: Four Seasons - Pearlman (Telarc SACD-60698)
  69. VIVALDI – LA STRAVAGANZA 12 VIOLIN CONCERTOS – POGER / ARTE DEI SUONATORI – CHANNEL CLASSICS / CCS SA 19503
  70. WAGNER – THE RING AN ORCHESTRAL ADVENTURE – N. JARVI / ROYAL SCOTTISH NATIONAL ORCHESTRA – CHANDOS / CHSA 5060
List of SACDs that (for those same people) DO NOT exhibit a single vinyl-like pop/click between tracks:
  1. Amedia, Laurindo/Charlie Byrd: Tango (stereo) (Groove Note GRV1021-3)
  2. Clapton, Eric: Slowhand (mch/stereo) (Polydor Ltd B0003639-36)
  3. Dion, Celine: New Day Has Come (Epic 86400) (although I may have noticed one between tracks 1 & 2)
  4. Hancock, Herbie: Flood (stereo) (Sony Japan SICP 10075)
  5. Steely Dan: Guacho (mch/stereo) (MCA 0602498605103)
List of DVD-Audios that (for some users) "upcut" at the beginning of tracks:
  1. Gill, Vince: High Lonesome Sound
List of DVD-Audios that (for some users) have other issues:
  1. Tchaikovsky: 1812 (new) (Telarc) - plays the 5.1 track when stereo is selected
Other known audio playback issues:
  1. possible beginning-of-track truncation (described here (post #5 of this thread)) - I have myself noticed this with regular audio CDs; the first second of the first track is not heard while the Oppo and receiver do an HDMI handshake...if I skip to another track, the problem happens as well. If the CD naturally transitions between tracks, there is no drop-out. I personally have no such issues with my SACDs.
  2. "rice krispies" - snap/crackle/pop in the midst of SACD tracks...most people don't experience this anymore thanks to recent f/w updates.
  3. Loader vibrations - more of a "physical" audio issue, as it were. Several Telarc hybrid mch SACDs were causing my unit to vibrate loudly enough that it could be heard 8 feet away. I sent the unit to Oppo, and they replaced the loader. The vibrations are still very slightly present on certain discs, but the vibration is no longer audible in any meaningful way.
Thread revision history

2010-02-10: thread started & beginning of SACD listing

2010-02-11: added 49 SACDs from fishinbob

2010-02-12: added some DVD-Audio info
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fatherom
The following is the original post I made in the master Oppo BDP-83 discussion thread:


I ran the stereo analog outs of my BDP-83 to my PC's soundcard and recorded several SACD track transitions. I have a regular BDP-83 running the latest official firmware. The mp3 file can be dowloaded from the following page:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepit1s/


I tried to get a good mix of record labels. I literally grabbed different discs off the shelf and every one exhibited the problem. Hopefully, there's something in this list AVSers also own and can try on their setups. I didn't alter the recording in any way...just concatenated all the WAV files together. Don't pay attention to the clicks/pops that are present at the extreme beginning or end of each portion...that's just SoundForge being dumb as a result of my cutting and pasting the 10 small WAVs together.


The single vinyl-like click/pop sound can be heard at the following time indices within the mp3:

01) 00:06; Track 1 -> 2; Jarvi/Dvorak Sym 9 (Telarc SACD-60616)

02) 00:16; Track 5 -> 6; Depeche Mode Music for the Masses

03) 00:28; Track 7 -> 8; Karajan/Mozart Requiem (Deutsche Gramm)

04) 00:41; Track 1 -> 2; Pizzaro/Beethoven Piano Sonatas (Linn Records)

05) 01:00; Track 1 -> 2; Beautiful Mind soundtrack

06) 01:11; Track 3 -> 4; Nutcracker Selections (Telarc SACD-60674)

07) 01:28; Track 3 -> 4; Scarlatti Giardino Di Rose (DECCA 470-650-2)

08) 01:38; Track 4 -> 5; Sarah Brightman Time to Say Goodbye (Angel Records)

09) 01:52; Track 5 -> 6; Mozart Requiem/Kuijken Quartet (Challenge Classics 72121)

10) 02:06; Track 6 -> 7; Gloria Estefan Greatest Hits (Epic 86729)


#6 is the loudest of all, I think.


As a small aside, if I push the skip forward or skip backward track buttons on the remote, there is no pop sound.


Now, I will be the first to admit these clicks/pops aren't huge...but they are loud enough to be noticeable and distracting. What do you think?


Chris
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fatherom
[reserved for possible future use]
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fatherom
Oppo is having me mail them 5 of my SACDs so they can test them with their BDP-83 and SE setups. I'll report back what they find.
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F
I submit that the HDMI truncation issue with CDs and SACD be included to this thread. For me it is more painful than all my clicks so far.


When I push the track button to access track 8 (Lonestar) of the very popular Norah Jones Come Away With Me, the first word of the song comes out as Own-star.
I am able to circumvent this cueing error with mass button pushing but would feel better about the machine if it would work like it should. This is a HDMI issue I am told so it is most likely a separate issue from the between track clicking.
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S
My acid test disk was:

Hildegard von Bingen, 11,000 Virgins, Harmonia Mundi HMU 807200


Up to the latest firmware update, it started the first track a bit late and had interspersed pops during playback. I do not recall any pops at track changes. After the last update, I hear no issues at all with the SACD; first track starts normally and I could not hear any pops with volume slightly higher than normal during checkout. I could hear the air conditioning in the hall where it was recorded with great ambiance, but nothing extraneous.


I am using a 3-meter HMDI connection to a Pioneer VSX-94TXH, letting the receiver perform the SACD decoding. Cannot recall the brand of the cable, think I got it through one of the Amazon stores or Ebay, would not have paid more than $10.


Dave
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F

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spacedave /forum/post/18107162


My acid test disk was:

Hildegard von Bingen, 11,000 Virgins, Harmonia Mundi HMU 807200


Up to the latest firmware update, it started the first track a bit late and had interspersed pops during playback. I do not recall any pops at track changes. After the last update, I hear no issues at all with the SACD; first track starts normally and I could not hear any pops with volume slightly higher than normal during checkout. I could hear the air conditioning in the hall where it was recorded with great ambiance, but nothing extraneous.




Dave
Click to expand...

Sounds as if you had the dreaded Rice Krispies, which for me, went away two updates ago.
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grubavs
fatherom, Just posting this in case it helps diagnose the problem...


I have not (yet) noticed any noise when playing my SACDs on the 83, but because I really like Hildegard I searched out the 11000 Virgins SACD. Testing the mp3 sound bites on Amazon I got exactly the same "pop" sound (to my ears) as your list when I switched from one track to the other. The pop doesn't occur each time I switch, but it is not track-dependent and intermittently occurs when either using the provided NEXT and/or PREVIOUS buttons or just selecting another track via cursor.


Oh, I bought the SACD
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fatherom

Quote:
Originally Posted by grubavs /forum/post/18107423


I have not (yet) noticed any noise when playing my SACDs on the 83, but because I really like Hildegard I searched out the 11000 Virgins SACD. Testing the mp3 sound bites on Amazon I got exactly the same "pop" sound (to my ears) as your list when I switched from one track to the other. The pop doesn't occur each time I switch, but it is not track-dependent and intermittently occurs when either using the provided NEXT and/or PREVIOUS buttons or just selecting another track via cursor.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, but I suspect that has more to do with Amazon's mp3 preview application.


Ironically, switching tracks on the Oppo does not cause the click/pop...it's only when the track naturally transitions during playback.
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G
I think in order to troubleshoot an elusive problem like this we need to provide as much information as possible.


I'm connecting BDP-83 to Denon AVR-2809ci using HDMI.

On the BDP-83 I have SACD Output set to DSD


So far I have detected no audio anomalies as noted in this thread on the following SACDs:

1) Eric Clapton - Slowhand (multi-channel/stereo) - Polydor Ltd B0003639-36

2) Laurindo Ameida/Charlie Byrd - Tango (stereo) - Groove Note GRV1021-3

3) Steely Dan - Guacho (multi-channel/stereo) - MCA 0602498605103

4) Herbie Hancock - Flood (stereo) - Sony Music Japan International Inc. SICP 10075


I have detected an audio anomaly on the following SACD:

1) Pink Floyd - The Dark Side of the Moon (multi-channel/stereo) - Capital Records CDP 7243 5 82136 2 1 - multi-channel track only: pop between tracks 2 and 3



Those are the only SACDs I own. In my limited testing it appears linked to the disc.
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fatherom
2

Quote:
Originally Posted by generalhead /forum/post/18107817


I think in order to troubleshoot an elusive problem like this we need to provide as much information as possible.
Click to expand...

Agreed...thanks so much for the updates!



I'm trying to keep the first post updated as I think of new things to put there...and I definitely want this thread to be a balanced discussion.


I want Oppo to have as much info as possible. If only, let's say, 10% of users end up ultimately experiencing this issue, that piece of information is also relevant.


I do ask, though, that those who post and claim that they have never heard pops between tracks listen quite carefully...we obviously all have different setups and different ears and different sensitivities to these things. The only reason I mention it at all is because I've already had a couple people say they wouldn't have noticed the clicks until I pointed them out in the mp3 I posted yesterday.


Thanks, and keep the constructive info flowing...
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J
For those who have experienced this rice krispies popping and other sounds, is it only on the 83 standard player, or is it also being heard on the 83SE?

Thanks

Jack
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S
Of the listed SACDs I only have DM's Music For The Masses. I put it in, skipped forward to track 5 and then let it play through to the first part of track 6 - I did not get any click/pop. FWIW I never had any problem with RK either though.


Oppo 83 (standard) > Integra DHC 9.9 via HDMI (PCM)


UPDATE/CORRECTION

I just went back and tried again but this time with the volume turned way up and was able to hear that single click (track 5 > track 6, Music For The Masses).
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fatherom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherbona /forum/post/18108056


FYI....


Of the listed SACDs I only have DM's Music For The Masses. I put it in, skipped forward to track 5 and then let it play through to the first part of track 6 - I did not get any click/pop. FWIW I never had any problem with RK either though.


Oppo 38 > Integra DHC 9.9 via HDMI
Click to expand...

Just to be sure...the click happens very close to the beginning sound effect in "Behind the Wheel"...it can be hard to miss.



Can you hear the click in the mp3 I posted for that disc? (see post #2 in this thread) If so, and you definitely don't hear it with your disc/setup, then that would be good to know.


Thanks!
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D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack7777 /forum/post/18107979


For those who have experienced this rice krispies popping and other sounds, is it only on the 83 standard player, or is it also being heard on the 83SE?

Thanks

Jack
Click to expand...

There was no change in this regard after I had the SE upgrade.
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S

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatherom /forum/post/18108093


Just to be sure...the click happens very close to the beginning sound effect in "Behind the Wheel"...it can be hard to miss.



Can you hear the click in the mp3 I posted for that disc? (see post #2 in this thread) If so, and you definitely don't hear it with your disc/setup, then that would be good to know.


Thanks!
Click to expand...

Sorry, turns out I misspoke in my earlier post. After downloading the mp3 and listening at the indicated spot, I then went back to the DM disc and tried again at a much louder volume - after 'training my ear' to what to listen for and with the louder volume I am able to hear that click. Thank you for digging into this, hopefully any info you get will help Oppo or the decoder chip company with this issue.
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J
To clarify, I am trying to determine if anyone who bought a new 83SE has experienced the reported popping and other sounds from SACD or DVD-A discs.


It appears this issue might be limited to standard 83 units and/or standard 83 units later upgraded by Oppo to 83SE status.


This may help isolate the cause and lead to potential solutions.



Thanks


Jack
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fatherom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherbona /forum/post/18108272


Sorry, turns out I misspoke in my earlier post. I did download your mp3, and after hearing it at the indicated mark I then went back to the DM disc and listen again at a much louder volume - after 'training my ear' to what to listen for and with the louder volume I am able to hear that click. Thank you for digging into this.
Click to expand...

Thanks for doing the test again.


My advance apologies if I am now causing people to notice things that they didn't notice before.
My whole goal is to try to work with Oppo to get this issue resolved so we have the most error-free SACD playback possible.
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fatherom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack7777 /forum/post/18108290


To clarify, I am trying to determine if anyone who bought a new 83SE has experienced the reported popping and other sounds from SACD or DVD-A discs.


It appears this issue might be limited to standard 83 units and/or standard 83 units later upgraded by Oppo to 83SE status.


This may help isolate the cause and lead to potential solutions.
Click to expand...

Based on everything I've read thus far, my guess (and it is truly that...a guess, since I don't own an SE) is that having an SE (new or modded) doesn't make a difference with respect to this issue. Hopefully, others with more knowledge specifically about this can chime in.


UPDATE: I've asked Oppo support this very question...I'll post any response they give.
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fatherom
I notified Oppo support of the mp3 recording I made and also told them that I snail mailed some of my SACDs to them. This is their latest response (I was telling them I didn't get clicks/pops when using the skip forward button on the remote):

The pops, crackles, and snaps are associated to the natural transition from track to track, and not with the function of track advancement. However, we have seen cases in house were we can reliably force the pops, crackles, and snaps by performing a skip forward.


Best Regards,


Customer Service

OPPO Digital, Inc.
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