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I found a hard to find bug with this receiver regarding disabling video conversion and RBG content (16-235) (YCbCr is not affected)


My setup: Pioneer 1123-K with a PN51D6900 plasma TV (Also tested with two other cheap brand LCDs)



First thing I did when I got my receiver, I disabled video conversion since I'm a gamer and wanted to remove as much input lag as possible, then I calibrated my TV using chromapure.


For a while everything seemed fine, movies/tv/etc all looked perfect.


Then I started playing some game on my PS3 and Xbox 360, and couldn't help but notice everything seemed darker than supposed, as in crushed black/missing detail.


Then I remembered, most movies play in YCbCr, and pretty much all games use RGB. Fun thing about the PS3 dvd/blu ray reader "software" is that you can choose the output format between those two.


So here are my results:



This is the PS3 outputting in RGB (Limited) with video conversion enabled on the receiver:

(Same results with both RGB and YCbCr)





This is the PS3 outputting RGB (again, limited) with video conversion off. BUT if I set it to YCbCr it look just as in picture 1, no problem.





This is the PS3 plugged directly in the TV, I get the same correct results with both RGB and YCbCr output






So it seem the problem only manifest itself with RGB content (limited, or 16-235 in other terms) when video conversion is set to off.


Tested and confirmed (same results) with my PS3, Xbox 360 and Wii U, on 3 different TVs.


I'll try to contact Pioneer about it, I hope I won't have too much trouble as my spoken english somewhat broken :/



Edit: About picture #2, even if I set the brightness to it's maximum, I'm not getting all bars on RGB. Not even the 17--18.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancoisC  /t/1475468/official-pioneer-vsx-1123-k-owners-thread/90#post_23523095


I found a hard to find bug with this receiver regarding disabling video conversion and RBG content (16-235) (YCbCr is not affected)


My setup: Pioneer 1123-K with a PN51D6900 plasma TV (Also tested with two other cheap brand LCDs)



First thing I did when I got my receiver, I disabled video conversion since I'm a gamer and wanted to remove as much input lag as possible, then I calibrated my TV using chromapure.


For a while everything seemed fine, movies/tv/etc all looked perfect.


Then I started playing some game on my PS3 and Xbox 360, and couldn't help but notice everything seemed darker than supposed, as in crushed black/missing detail.


Then I remembered, most movies play in YCbCr, and pretty much all games use RGB. Fun thing about the PS3 dvd/blu ray reader "software" is that you can choose the output format between those two.


So here are my results:



This is the PS3 outputting in RGB (Limited) with video conversion enabled on the receiver:

(Same results with both RGB and YCbCr)





This is the PS3 outputting RGB (again, limited) with video conversion off. BUT if I set it to YCbCr it look just as in picture 1, no problem.





This is the PS3 plugged directly in the TV, I get the same correct results with both RGB and YCbCr output






So it seem the problem only manifest itself with RGB content (limited, or 16-235 in other terms) when video conversion is set to off.


Tested and confirmed (same results) with my PS3, Xbox 360 and Wii U, on 3 different TVs.


I'll try to contact Pioneer about it, I hope I won't have too much trouble as my spoken english somewhat broken :/



Edit: About picture #2, even if I set the brightness to it's maximum, I'm not getting all bars on RGB. Not even the 17--18.


Thanks for your findings and alerting pioneer.


So if im understanding you and so were clear you have your 360 and ps3 set to output 16-235 rgb levels and its expanding the rgb signal to 0-255?


Also curious you mentioned you turn videoconversion off, i did research and currently own a denon but in my research into denon video conversion I seen someone stated on here pioneer has lag free video conversion and was upset denon did not accomplish this, did you do any leg tests with video conversion enabled vs disabled?
 

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Also wondering if anyone can confirm, can the second hdmi output be used as an hdmi splitter at all? To output exactly whats being output on the first hdmi output?


To accomplish this would one just select the hdzone and set it to the same input as the other zone?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilo  /t/1475468/official-pioneer-vsx-1123-k-owners-thread/90#post_23529032


Thanks for your findings and alerting pioneer.


So if im understanding you and so were clear you have your 360 and ps3 set to output 16-235 rgb levels and its expanding the rgb signal to 0-255?


Also curious you mentioned you turn videoconversion off, i did research and currently own a denon but in my research into denon video conversion I seen someone stated on here pioneer has lag free video conversion and was upset denon did not accomplish this, did you do any leg tests with video conversion enabled vs disabled?

Yes, everything is set for 16-235 output.


Also the lag is very very small, but for example when I play with my Wii U, the music/sound coming from the receiver and the wii u controller is not completely in sync with video conversion on, causing an echo effect. Disabling video conversion fixes that.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancoisC  /t/1475468/official-pioneer-vsx-1123-k-owners-thread/90#post_23529291


Yes, everything is set for 16-235 output.


Also the lag is very very small, but for example when I play with my Wii U, the music/sound coming from the receiver and the wii u controller is not completely in sync with video conversion on, causing an echo effect. Disabling video conversion fixes that.

Interesting thanks for letting me know, guess its best to just keep it off for gaming inputs, good to see a gamer on here testing it, sometimes you guys are hard to find with products when it comes to lag.


You can set video conversion per input though can you?


Not that it helps, but I would also like to ensure its not one universal setting. On my denon i have it off for ps3/360 inputs. The rest I keep it on. I dont know if its also the same with pioneer, but I get no volume overlay without conversion on, is that the same with pioneer? You need conversion on for volume overlay on your tv?


Please keep us upadted after you contact pioneer, this is something I would hope is fixed with firmware.
 

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Yes you can set it per input



I sent them an email yesterday night, explained as well as I could and also provided a link to my post here.


If other people can reproduce the same thing and write or call them I'm sure it would help a little!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancoisC  /t/1475468/official-pioneer-vsx-1123-k-owners-thread/90#post_23531149


Yes you can set it per input



I sent them an email yesterday night, explained as well as I could and also provided a link to my post here.


If other people can reproduce the same thing and write or call them I'm sure it would help a little!


Yea it definitely would! I wonder if this effects other vsx 2013 models which will be even bigger sellers due to the lower price.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilo  /t/1475468/official-pioneer-vsx-1123-k-owners-thread/90#post_23529047


Also wondering if anyone can confirm, can the second hdmi output be used as an hdmi splitter at all? To output exactly whats being output on the first hdmi output?


To accomplish this would one just select the hdzone and set it to the same input as the other zone?

No, what you need to do is in the menu 4f5a on the receiver set Output Setting: to MAIN.

Select OK. Exit the receivers menu.


Now on your remote, second row from the bottom, second button from the left click HDMI OUT, you have an option of, 1, 2, 1+2, and OFF.

1 outputs HDMI signal to Main HDMI zone.

2 outputs HDMI signal to HDZONE HDMI.

1+2 outputs to both.


Page 68 of the manual.
 

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I admit I did have problems with iControl2013 app on my Galaxy S3. It would not connect and lock up the GS3 so that I had to reboot it. I found it was that my network setup. The Galaxy S3 was on my in house wifi and the VSX-1123K was hard wired into the network. The problem was that the GS3 was on the main network but I had the VSX1123, TV, BD all on a router behind a router, simply to get more ports. I.E. Wifi for my phone was 192.168.1.xxx and the devices on the router were 192.168.2.xxx.

I finally replaced the router with a switch instead. After doing that when I launched the iControl2013 app it automatically connected with no input required by me.

Now I find the app is easier to use than the actual VSX1123 remote. In fact on the app is a button called Emphasis where you can raise the Bass or Dialog that I haven't duplicated with the remote and iy\t's not the same as the Dialog Enhancement. On the app Dialog Enhancement where it raises the dialog and the app button for Dialog Emphasis are 2 different buttons.
 

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My 1123 is currently set as Z2&HDZONE with Multi set to On. That way I get the same view on my Main TV and 2nd TV connected to HDMI2. I can change the output to the 2nd TV to one of the options allowed er the documentation but 99% of t he time I have it set to show the same as the Main.

The only drawback I have found is with a BD that has TrueHD or DTS Master. With only the Main TV on I get TrueHD or DTS Master however if I turn the 2nd TV on, audio output it drops back to DD. I assume this is normal. If I turn off the 2nd TV the BD audio output goes back to TrueHD or DTS Matser.
 

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I am actually running STB HMDI to AV then HDMI to both the Main and to Zone2 and get 16x9 1080i on both TVs. Well really 1080p/24 on the Main since the AV upconverts.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thr2  /t/1475468/official-pioneer-vsx-1123-k-owners-thread/90#post_23537491


My 1123 is currently set as Z2&HDZONE with Multi set to On. That way I get the same view on my Main TV and 2nd TV connected to HDMI2. I can change the output to the 2nd TV to one of the options allowed er the documentation but 99% of t he time I have it set to show the same as the Main.

The only drawback I have found is with a BD that has TrueHD or DTS Master. With only the Main TV on I get TrueHD or DTS Master however if I turn the 2nd TV on, audio output it drops back to DD. I assume this is normal. If I turn off the 2nd TV the BD audio output goes back to TrueHD or DTS Matser.

So if i have it set to output to 1+2 display, the main zone will not get dts master or truehd? I did not see that in the manual, as I am looking at this avr but want to make sure everything works as I expect.


Also you say you have to set it 99% of the time to the same as main, I dont know if this should be the case either, did you select hdzone in the icontrol app and then select a different input?


A few points you made do concern me if it is the case.
 

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I have a Vizio tv and an Optoma projector. My inputs are a satellite box and a ps3, both connected by hdmi. Can I use the Pioneer 1123 to switch between tv or projector?

Thanks


Johnf
 

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Hey guys, I'm sorry if this has been answered but I couldn't find it in search. I just got the 1123-k and I'm loving it so far. One question I have is, is it possible to have the video from one input on screen while listening to the audio from another input? I've currently got my WiiU, PS3, Xbox, and cable box hooked up via HDMI into the receiver and an HDMI cable out to the tv. Ideally I would like to listen to airplay or pandora or my computer via optical audio while playing some games. Can this be done? Thanks!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmford  /t/1475468/official-pioneer-vsx-1123-k-owners-thread/90#post_23541504


I have a Vizio tv and an Optoma projector. My inputs are a satellite box and a ps3, both connected by hdmi. Can I use the Pioneer 1123 to switch between tv or projector?

Thanks


Johnf

Yes I believe that is easily accomplished from what I have read regarding the avr, it has two hdmi outs.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoUse4AName68  /t/1475468/official-pioneer-vsx-1123-k-owners-thread/90#post_23542573


Hey guys, I'm sorry if this has been answered but I couldn't find it in search. I just got the 1123-k and I'm loving it so far. One question I have is, is it possible to have the video from one input on screen while listening to the audio from another input? I've currently got my WiiU, PS3, Xbox, and cable box hooked up via HDMI into the receiver and an HDMI cable out to the tv. Ideally I would like to listen to airplay or pandora or my computer via optical audio while playing some games. Can this be done? Thanks!

Yes, I did it by running both the MAIN and HDZONE hdmi outputs to the TV.

You will need to run 2 HDMI cables from the receiver to the TV.

So effectively input 1 on TV is output from MAIN on the VSX-1123-K and input 2 on TV is output HDZONE from the VSX-1123-K.

If I want to listen to music while playing games I switch HDZONE to on, on the VSX-1123-K and switch the input on the TV to 2.

This will run the video from my Xbox to the TV via HDZONE (HDMI 2) output from the receiver.

Then I turn on the MAIN zone on the VSX-1123-K to Pandora or whatever I desire, and this allows me to play music via my speakers, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmford  /t/1475468/official-pioneer-vsx-1123-k-owners-thread/90#post_23541504


I have a Vizio tv and an Optoma projector. My inputs are a satellite box and a ps3, both connected by hdmi. Can I use the Pioneer 1123 to switch between tv or projector?

Thanks


Johnf

Yes you can. You need to set your HDMI output to 1+2 which will display the same video on both devices. I assume this is what you want.

Check my post above #109.
 

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Not "exactly" true. I do have mine set as output 1+2 and a BD will output truehd or dts master. Once the blu disk starts, both the VSX-1123-k AV and icontrol2013 andriod app will display true hd or dts master and the sound is great as expected.


I just finished testing playing a BD with true hd in the Main Zone and had the Zone 2 TV set for Sat/Cable.

The Main Zone BD oytput true hd while the Zone TV received a 1080 signal via Sat/Cable.

I then pressed the HDZONE remote button and set the HDZONE to BD. At that point the Zone 2 TV played the same video of the BD as the Main Zone TV however the audio output on the AV dropped to 2 channel stereo.

I reset the HDZONE back to Sat/Cable. The Zone 2 TV video changed back to the Sat/Cable 1080 output and then Main Zone audio went back to true HD.


It seems that you cannot output true hd or dts matser to 2 zones. It is also possible it is some limitation of the Zone 2 TV, which an inexpensive 19" HDMI TV strictly used as a mirror in the kitchen of what is played on the Main. The 99% statement is that rarely is the Zone 2 TV used for anything other than to mirror the Main for Sat/Cable output.


I suspect it is a limitation of the BD output through the AV since you are basically splitting the audio and video. The video does not seem to suffer though only the drop in audio output.
 

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Also an answer from Pioneer in response to a question I asked via email regarding the Emphasis setting on my icontrol2013 android app.

I asked what buttons on the AV remote are equal to using the Emphasis button on the Andriod app, since the icontrol2013 app has the option to use both the Dialog Enhancement to raise dialog Up and the Emphasis app button actually increases the Dialog or Bass output.

Surprisingly the response was that Emphasis is NOT duplicated on the AV remote. It only available via the app.
 

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Been looking at the Pioneer 1123 or the 1222. Are there any striking differences between the two?


Is not having THX Select 2 cert. an absolute no-no?


Thanks.
 
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