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I don't have Netflix but suspected same when this was first reported so I did a little research. It seams Netflix varies their signal quality depending on the speed of the Internet connection. So I would assume that two testers with identical settings could still get different results if their Internet connections have different speeds.
I've got it on a Cat5e cable with 120 Mbps. They say "A steady Internet connection speed of 25 megabits per second or faster" is enough for their 4K HDR; however, if anyone is on WiFi there could be some packet loss in there.
 

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I have to be honest... I really want that S7201 in my home. But (and this is a huge BUT) I really love my dual V3601's. And in order to get the S7201 I would have to trade in my V3601's. I would consider doing that but my fear is if I did that I KNOW I would miss my ported subs too much.

The one thing I verified with my little comparison last week was exactly what imureh discovered when he went from ported to sealed and back to ported, some of us love the violent intensity of ported subs. The sealed subs are incredible at creating a black hole vacuum effect as they suck the very air right out of the room. But the ported subs explode with positive energy. POC described it really well when he said that his S3601's felt like they made the room IMPLODE. I agree with him because even the S1801 in my big room was trying to do that... pretty cool.

This is over simplifying things... but when I was running sealed vs. ported the V3601 made the room explode and the S1801 made it implode. Both are really cool effects and I would love to have both at the same time, but if I have to choose I like the explosive power of the ported sub a little more. So it's settled, I stick with the dual V3601's.

But then I start to wonder... what is that S7201 like? how brutal would that be? Would it be better than dual V3601's? Ughhhhhh.... I want both.
Hop, I wonder how much of the difference you noticed was due to either the extra output of the v36 compared to the S18 around tune, or the more aggressive native FR around tune, causing you to experience substantially higher SPL at the same MV when comparing the two subs? I don't think it would have taken a very high MV to reveal a large output difference between the two subs at low frequency.

I do believe that a ported sub will produce greater tactile effect than sealed even at the same exact SPL, unless of course the sealed offers higher output at lower frequencies that are noticeable(they often are not Imo).

Perhaps you should consider driving to PSA, pick up an S7201, and compare it to a single V3601 to ensure more of an apples to apples comparison without a chance that the sealed sub may have been SPL limited at low frequencies.

Did you do an REW sweep to see if the low end response matched pretty close between the two alignments? If not, it may require some eq to match up the response for a more fair comparison. In your large room, the S7201 should be able to not only keep up around port tune, but provide more output at the lowest frequencies as well. Down around 10Hz has almost no effect in my room, even at reference level, but every room is different. Would be an interesting comparison.

Imagine....eight 18" drivers..............8,000 watts............:D



YOLO
 

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Great player! Incredible for upscaled 1080p blu-rays! Best Buy has them for the same price! It also plays SACD’s and DVD-A’s if u are into that!
I love surround sound music. It's worth picking up an SACD or DVD-A or two, and see if you like the experience. They are generally pricey, though. Some SACD are still in print, try Amazon, Acoustic Sounds or Ebay. If you search ebay, you should be able to get Pink Floyd DSOTM at a reasonable price, used. A good place to start. There are also Blu Ray Audio.
 

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Hop, I wonder how much of the difference you noticed was due to either the extra output of the v36 compared to the S18 around tune, or the more aggressive native FR around tune, causing you to experience substantially higher SPL at the same MV when comparing the two subs? I don't think it would have taken a very high MV to reveal a large output difference between the two subs at low frequency.

I do believe that a ported sub will produce greater tactile effect than sealed even at the same exact SPL, unless of course the sealed offers higher output at lower frequencies that are noticeable(they often are not Imo).

Perhaps you should consider driving to PSA, pick up an S7201, and compare it to a single V3601 to ensure more of an apples to apples comparison without a chance that the sealed sub may have been SPL limited at low frequencies.

Did you do an REW sweep to see if the low end response matched pretty close between the two alignments? If not, it may require some eq to match up the response for a more fair comparison. In your large room, the S7201 should be able to not only keep up around port tune, but provide more output at the lowest frequencies as well. Down around 10Hz has almost no effect in my room, even at reference level, but every room is different. Would be an interesting comparison.

Imagine....eight 18" drivers..............8,000 watts............:D



YOLO
It's good to hear from you Bear, I haven't seen you around lately, its good to have you popping in again.

You are right, I've wondered the same things. I'll be the first to admit that this was a very quick and dirty comparison and none of what I discovered should be taken too seriously.

LOL... yeah just imagine... eight 18" drivers driven by 8000 watts all in an uber cool design. Climber, Pradeep and Rollstroyce are already half way there. And Christmas is coming.... who's going to be the first to have dual S7201's?
 

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Something about adding towers really makes a statement. With the screen down it says, “welcome to my theater.” These MTM-210T are absolute beasts, and of course the finish and build quality is perfect in every way! Having previously been in the wood working industry for many years, the craftsmanship and attention to detail of PSA products always impresses me.

Still so much work to go but then end of the tunnel is near: mount and calibrate projector, lower center channel, recalibrate the entire audio, video, and transducer system; they’ll be lasers and microphones everywhere. Hopefully it’ll all be done by next week...because son 2.0 is on the way any day now, might be sooner than a month! Eeeek

Sorry not the best quality pics, low light at night and all. I’ll get some solid ones up next week when she’s all done.

That's looking really good Sekosche, especially considering you have only just set all that up. I'm looking forward to reading your impressions.
 
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Try setting your mains at 100 Hz and turning on the Dynamic EQ.

You may be getting phase cancellation between the mains and sub. I have full range speakers as well but run them at 100 Hz crossover. When I do this this bass comes alive.
Unfortunately that didn't help. I did move it into a corner and reran Aud. It appears that having it dead center and facing the listening position doesn't cause distortion, it just makes it noticeable. Corner sounds great. Middle facing straight up sounds great (I hope it doesn't destroy my 85" TV). I'm not getting skull crushing that other people have talked about but the settings are back up to where I am getting happier and my couch is rumbling without sub distortion!
 

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zeuspaul, Gob Bluth, Tom Vodhanel, Pradeep2 and everyone else that has responded.

It appears it was room placement. I had it dead center and facing the listening position. This made a lot of distortion audible. After I started turning it up I was even getting it in some bass heavy music. I have placed it in the corner and reran Aud. No distortion regardless of what I did with the gain, trim, or volume. I was at a loss thinking, "damnit... my sideways in wall cable management is now jacked, my front wall is uneven and this is really bothering me. I don't want to fork out the cash to buy another one." I started debating on other bass options while I lugged that heavy bastard (even on carpet sliders) back to center. I put a couple of 2 x 4's under where the edges would be and tilted the sub onto its back. This is barely enough clearance to not damage the RCA and power cable and it looks atrocious BUT, it sounds pretty damn good. I'm not having skull crushing or feeling anything in my chest but my couch's leather is moving again and I do not hear any distortion. So, I'm back to happily adjusting instead of adjusting out of irritation. I'll have to fashion some type of nice looking stands for the edges of the sub so I can put it on its back without damaging the cables, knobs, etc. I only have 1/3 of an inch to the bottom of the TV. I don't really like the way it looks as I was used to the other setup but it will hopefully grow on me once I make some decent stands. I'll be back after I mess with the settings some more and get them where I want it or if I have more issues. I'll also post a picture after I get the stands made and shelving completed so I can maybe get some more ideas. I've also got to figure out what I'm going to do with the center.

What would be best is if I could figure out how to stop the distortion from the way I had it before (attached). lol

Thanks everyone and have a great Thanksgiving!



 

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zeuspaul, Gob Bluth, Tom Vodhanel, Pradeep2 and everyone else that has responded.

It appears it was room placement. I had it dead center and facing the listening position. This made a lot of distortion audible. After I started turning it up I was even getting it in some bass heavy music. I have placed it in the corner and reran Aud. No distortion regardless of what I did with the gain, trim, or volume. I was at a loss thinking, "damnit... my sideways in wall cable management is now jacked, my front wall is uneven and this is really bothering me. I don't want to fork out the cash to buy another one." I started debating on other bass options while I lugged that heavy bastard (even on carpet sliders) back to center. I put a couple of 2 x 4's under where the edges would be and tilted the sub onto its back. This is barely enough clearance to not damage the RCA and power cable and it looks atrocious BUT, it sounds pretty damn good. I'm not having skull crushing or feeling anything in my chest but my couch's leather is moving again and I do not hear any distortion. So, I'm back to happily adjusting instead of adjusting out of irritation. I'll have to fashion some type of nice looking stands for the edges of the sub so I can put it on its back without damaging the cables, knobs, etc. I only have 1/3 of an inch to the bottom of the TV. I don't really like the way it looks as I was used to the other setup but it will hopefully grow on me once I make some decent stands. I'll be back after I mess with the settings some more and get them where I want it or if I have more issues. I'll also post a picture after I get the stands made and shelving completed so I can maybe get some more ideas. I've also got to figure out what I'm going to do with the center.

What would be best is if I could figure out how to stop the distortion from the way I had it before (attached). lol

Thanks everyone and have a great Thanksgiving!



Yep! Bass doesn't give a crap about aesthetics. Room balance is rarely, if ever, conducive to good bass.
 
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Hi all,

Quick blast from the past.

We have one XV15-base subwoofer heading to the outlet soon. Anyone who wants to aesthetically match-up their single unit should jump on this as we don't get these very often..:)

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
 

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zeuspaul, Gob Bluth, Tom Vodhanel, Pradeep2 and everyone else that has responded.

It appears it was room placement. I had it dead center and facing the listening position. This made a lot of distortion audible. After I started turning it up I was even getting it in some bass heavy music. I have placed it in the corner and reran Aud. No distortion regardless of what I did with the gain, trim, or volume. I was at a loss thinking, "damnit... my sideways in wall cable management is now jacked, my front wall is uneven and this is really bothering me. I don't want to fork out the cash to buy another one." I started debating on other bass options while I lugged that heavy bastard (even on carpet sliders) back to center. I put a couple of 2 x 4's under where the edges would be and tilted the sub onto its back. This is barely enough clearance to not damage the RCA and power cable and it looks atrocious BUT, it sounds pretty damn good. I'm not having skull crushing or feeling anything in my chest but my couch's leather is moving again and I do not hear any distortion. So, I'm back to happily adjusting instead of adjusting out of irritation. I'll have to fashion some type of nice looking stands for the edges of the sub so I can put it on its back without damaging the cables, knobs, etc. I only have 1/3 of an inch to the bottom of the TV. I don't really like the way it looks as I was used to the other setup but it will hopefully grow on me once I make some decent stands. I'll be back after I mess with the settings some more and get them where I want it or if I have more issues. I'll also post a picture after I get the stands made and shelving completed so I can maybe get some more ideas. I've also got to figure out what I'm going to do with the center.

What would be best is if I could figure out how to stop the distortion from the way I had it before (attached). lol

Thanks everyone and have a great Thanksgiving!



Hi Rolls, thanks for the update. The key thing is you're closer to being 100% happy with the subwoofer of course BUT...did you change anything else during the above process? Jim mentioned you had the subwoofer levels maxxed out (+12) in the AVR during his call with you yesterday. If you moved the sub AND modified the gain structure as he recommended...the latter could be responsible for the improvements as much/more than the alternate placement..:)

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
 

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Thanks for your comments. On the second S3000i, I say do it...Christmas just comes once a year ya know.;)

BTW, the link to your Movies Collection didn't work for me. You should instead start a thread on the AVS Bluray forum, copy your list there, and then change the link to this thread in your signature.

My Movie Collection link definitely still works... even on mobile. It just takes a little while for it to show up (I counted about 6-7 sec) since there are a ton of movies on there. Though the idea to start a thread on AVS for my collection seems good, it would still pale in comparison to the information that is on my link. :rolleyes: ;)
 

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Hi all,

Quick blast from the past.

We have one XV15-base subwoofer heading to the outlet soon. Anyone who wants to aesthetically match-up their single unit should jump on this as we don't get these very often..:)

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Nice picture of a woofer and a subwoofer.
 

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Dime piece right there.
Bass, I remember you saying 4 subs is the shi#. I think it has your name written all over it. Just consider it a Christmas present to yourself:devil:.
 
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Bass, I remember you saying 4 subs is the shi#. I think it has your name written all over it. Just consider it a Christmas present to yourself:devil:.
LOL... Mike we are thinking alike, I was just about to post the same thing. But then I remembered that he switched his other three subs to the ICE amps. However, four XV15's with the wood base on them would be pretty cool to have.
 

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Bass, I remember you saying 4 subs is the shi#. I think it has your name written all over it. Just consider it a Christmas present to yourself:devil:.
It was until it got to the point where I would turn the system off after loud jam sessions and my ears would be ringing. That made me realize that I can either back it down a notch or start learning how to read lips for the future. I agree that having this 4th would be sweet and I am partially tempted, but it's not going to get utilized. I very seldom go over -20db from reference any more. Again ringing ears is no fun and annoying as hell.
 

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zeuspaul, Gob Bluth, Tom Vodhanel, Pradeep2 and everyone else that has responded.

It appears it was room placement. I had it dead center and facing the listening position. This made a lot of distortion audible. After I started turning it up I was even getting it in some bass heavy music. I have placed it in the corner and reran Aud. No distortion regardless of what I did with the gain, trim, or volume. I was at a loss thinking, "damnit... my sideways in wall cable management is now jacked, my front wall is uneven and this is really bothering me. I don't want to fork out the cash to buy another one." I started debating on other bass options while I lugged that heavy bastard (even on carpet sliders) back to center. I put a couple of 2 x 4's under where the edges would be and tilted the sub onto its back. This is barely enough clearance to not damage the RCA and power cable and it looks atrocious BUT, it sounds pretty damn good. I'm not having skull crushing or feeling anything in my chest but my couch's leather is moving again and I do not hear any distortion. So, I'm back to happily adjusting instead of adjusting out of irritation. I'll have to fashion some type of nice looking stands for the edges of the sub so I can put it on its back without damaging the cables, knobs, etc. I only have 1/3 of an inch to the bottom of the TV. I don't really like the way it looks as I was used to the other setup but it will hopefully grow on me once I make some decent stands. I'll be back after I mess with the settings some more and get them where I want it or if I have more issues. I'll also post a picture after I get the stands made and shelving completed so I can maybe get some more ideas. I've also got to figure out what I'm going to do with the center.

What would be best is if I could figure out how to stop the distortion from the way I had it before (attached). lol

Thanks everyone and have a great Thanksgiving!



I don't know what to say about your above statement, I really can't see having the cavities towards the ceiling versus them facing the MLP would change the sound much at all. I would think there would be no difference as far as distortion you're hearing. The corner placement also was very good right with no audible distortion? I ran a bunch or REW measurements with the 7201 in both the right and left front corners just like your place, which is similar to mine. I got excellent FR graphs all around the MLP with the sub in both corners L&R.

Turning the sub did change the response some but not drastically, having the sub oriented the way you do now also shouldn't have changed much from when it was facing the MLP. I took some measurements with it laying on it's side in the front of the room where my center channel is and got good results. I have to think you changed something or did something different to go from distortion to none just with the sub facing up and straight forward. Plus you said it sounded really good in the corner, I have to agree with that placement option, mine sounded best in the left front corner of my almost same looking as yours front of the room.

You took it out of a corner position that produced the best results so far and put it in the center of the room because it was uneven and you thought you had to buy another one. I would have tried rotating the sub in all directions slightly and listened. Too bad you don't have REW and a mic. I also don't know what the rest of your room looks like or how big it is but I would tend to think in either corner with the right settings and calibration you wouldn't need another one unless it's all about symmetry to you. They way it is now would be better suited behind the MLP for most Tactile feel unless you're not into that.

With my 72 in the left corner after calibration I had some very impressive FR measurements and the sound confirmed those graphs. The TR was amazing, my couch is very heavy and it was bouncing like it was made of balsa wood and the sub was an actual 16' away. The boundary and room gain was astounding, you saw my output at 6Hz didn't you? I never even approached the limits of this sub and had a ton of headroom left in the tank at MV-9dB with the trim where Audy set it too, I believe it was -8.5dB.

Here's several measurements with the 7201 and my center channel taken at 14 different locations around the MLP. My room is about 2800^3 with an opening on the left. I'll include a pic of the 72 in the corner, doesn't look uneven to me. Just a bit of advice, I would try it back in the corner and run REQ and after turn the sub slightly a quarter of a turn in either direction and listen. Use some familiar music or watch a BD movie, also whatever Jim told you to do I would try that as well. Good luck............remember I'm not trying to tell you what to do only suggesting what worked for me with that subwoofer.

From back of room and corner placement.





C+ Sub bottom and sub only Top, this was after only a one position mic Audy run, the first day I set it up.



Here's after a full REQ at the 14 spots around the MLP and then an average of all of them.



AVERAGE:



This is possible in my room with just one 7201, I can see you having similar results with a little effort and some measuring gear plus the right settings, I honestly don't think the distortion you're hearing is room induced and has something to do with calibration and settings prior to and after REQ......:)

Just wanted to see how low and loud this sub would go in my room from 5-60Hz before the mic clipped at -9dB MV with Audy set trim, not hot........




Good luck and interested in what Jim F. suggested you do with the settings or any thing else, thanks.

Cheers Jeffrey
 

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